Derek 2.0

Others will provide the combat element, as will be the case in the fight against ISIS..........and nobody really pays attention to us regardless, as such, why spend billions on a military we won't use?

Oh I don't agree with it, but based on their fiscal plan, and their own statements, I don't disagree that the direction of the forces will change.......If they cut the budget in half, as I outlined above, they could fund all their spending plans with a ~balanced budget.

This has nothing to do with self-respect, that ship sailed when the Prime Minister told our Allies that we would be halting our combat mission against ISIS, as they are in talks to increase theirs......Playing devils advocate, look no further than Iceland, which doesn't have a military (they have a coast guard and paramilitary wing of their national police force), but yet is still a member of NATO, with their contribution being basing rights.........under this neutered Canada, we could still offer the use of our air bases, radar installations and SIGINT installations. I'm sure New Zealand and Ireland consider themselves "respectable" with the smug realization that others contribute the majority of their defense needs. You're preaching to the choir...........but as I said, if this Government isn't prepared to fight radical Islam, what is it prepared to fight? As such, if its not prepared to fight, why should it spend billions of dollars a year for a still substandard force? That is going through the motions, and a waste of taxpayer's money.

Exactly, I (we) could be wrong, and the Trudeau Government could have hidden plans, budgeted outside their own "fiscal plan" to invest in the forces........but, when one looks at the direction of the World economy, the larger than expected deficits and declining dollar etc, the Government will have to go far more into debt for the things it promised and budgeted for........so I doubt there will be "hidden" new money for the Forces either.

Per the Liberals' fiscal plan, there is no new money promised, other than the funding elevator implemented by the Harper Government.....combined with cutting programs and making the force "leaner" there is zero evidence to suggest that they will do better by this new Government then the one previous, and it is likely, after the "review", they will do worse off.

No argument here, we are far more like New Zealand (or Ireland) in that regard, sponging off the guys next door........as such, in my opinion, I don't totally disagree with Big Guy. As a nation, I don't think we should slash the military and become totally reliant upon someone else (see the United States), but if the majority of Canadians share this current Government's views on our place in the World, and are not willing to fight someone like ISIS, why spend billions on a military? We could slash the budget by 2/3rds, retiring the combat capable portions of our military, retaining a small army for Peacekeeping and aide to civil power/disaster response, reduce the air force to supporting such a force and fisheries patrols, and transform the navy into a lightly armed coast guard. Spending billions to retain a second or third rate combat force, that we're not going to use, is a huge waste of money.

Exactly, when people bleat and moan about the previous government, but point to the Liberals as saviors, who have clearly stated they will continue with current funding, well curtailing the F-35 program and transform the military into a "leaner" force, it's utterly laughable.

Several points to differ Canada and Australia. First Australia has been, in its history, subject to bombings and invasions of it's territory, and knows that with it's location, despite assurances from the British, then the Americans, they are on their own. Second, it has had frosty relations, including proxy conflicts, throughout its mini Cold War with its Northern neighbor, Indonesia (a country of over 250 million Muslims) since the 1960s, and nearly resulted in Australia becoming a nuclear power in its own right....... Canada and Australia are apples and mangoes........and each others defense needs and spending reflect that.

Facts indeed.........the only problem, 2% of GDP wasn't the standard, let alone the average during PET's term, when the NATO-European average was over 3%, and the Americans were spending upwards of 6%...... the Mulroney government, that did increase defense spending, even then, only brought us up to 2.1% of GDP. And of course, only two countries currently spend ~2% of their GDP on defense: But of course, worldwide, Canada is ranked 16th in total defense spending, putting us behind only a handful NATO countries, the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy and Turkey.........all countries, absent Turkey, with far larger economies than ours...... Facts indeed.

What facts? You provide no facts, you provided a dated doc that doesn't confirm the previous Government was funding an aircraft that it hadn't purchased yet

Exactly, as pointed out in the OP, the new program has a staff of three........that is less people than involved in this topic. Furthermore, the young lady put in charge, per her Linkedin account (In the last 24 hours, now page not found ) has little over a decade in experience over at our Department of Fisheries and Oceans, namely in HR.......her education background, includes a degree in Political Science and a member of the volley ball and track & field team.........as it stands, she would be hard pressed to enter most commissioned trades in our air force........ ........That, coupled with the cited fiscal plan, and its lack of new funding for fighters, leads me to conclude that there will be no new fighters inside this mandate edit to link to her account fixed

Hidden in the cushions I suppose?

No you didn't......in what fiscal years did the previous Tory Government start funding the F-35? And by all means, when you can't answer that, highlight the new Governments new fiscal plan and the passage that funds the new fighter Here is the fiscal plan in case you missed it: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/The-Liberal-fiscal-plan-and-costing.pdf

No, you provided a dated document, that doesn't support what you claim.........why would any Government set aside billions of dollars in its budget (which it didn't), when it didn't intend to purchase new aircraft until the end of the decade. You can't support your claim, nor does the new Liberal Government's very own fiscal plan include funding for fighters.........hence you are clearly wrong.

Source? The previous Government didn't intend to purchase any F-35s until the aircraft was in full production in 2018-2019, they did budget last year, several hundred million to life extended the Hornets to the middle 2020s, but that doesn't equate to your baseless claim that there is money, somewhere, hidden, for new fighters. Based on the present Governments fiscal plan, there is no planned funding for a Hornet replacement inside this mandate, until that changes, the Liberals will not be purchasing new fighters with no money.

No it isn't, the Tories wouldn't budget something they didn't intend to purchase until later this decade, hence there is no money in the present budget for fighters, nor do the Liberals intend to purchase fighters inside this mandate based on their own fiscal plan: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/The-Liberal-fiscal-plan-and-costing.pdf You can't blame Harper for not budgeting for your baseless claim........hence my point still stands, there will not be new fighters bought inside this mandate (based on the Liberal fiscal plan).

Why would the previous Government fund something they didn't intend to purchase until the end of the decade?

By all means, since smallc refuses, have a once over of the Liberal Governments fiscal plan through 2019-2020 and highlight the funding for new fighters: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/The-Liberal-fiscal-plan-and-costing.pdf For the life of me, I can't find it.......can you?

Long since dated, since the previous government never intended to procure the F-35 until it came into full-rate production in 2018-2019......hence no funding for said fighter.......... I'll await for you to highlight the Liberal fiscal plan with the funding framework for new fighters.

Here's the reason right here: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/The-Liberal-fiscal-plan-and-costing.pdf By all means, go through it, I could have missed the Billions for new fighters in the next four years.

Who knows, they never released a fiscal plan with new funding for fighters prior to the end of the decade.....like the Liberals.

Of course not, because they have no intention to procure fighters within this mandate.........

Exactly, judging by the fact that they have budgeted no new money for fighters, and they have made a 30 something, from the department of fisheries (that worked namely in HR) the project head, with a staff of 2-3 members, I think optimistic is very polite.

By all means feel free to provide a source that counters this document, from the Liberal Party of Canada, listing their entire fiscal plan through the 2019/2020 fiscal year.

Or through fiscal year 2019/2020: https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/The-Liberal-fiscal-plan-and-costing.pdf Hence, the Liberals have no new money budgeted for new fighters within this mandate.