Derek 2.0

So? The (British) Tories will retain two squadrons worth of (low hour) Typhoons they were to retire, upgraded so they can replace the (70s era) Tornado.......work to be done (retaining BAE jobs) and to be based at RAF Coningsby (now keeping upwards of 1000 RAF personal that were to be sacked) all in Lincolnshire, a Tory bastion, no different than Atlantic Canada or Alberta for the Liberals and Tories here. What you failed to mention, the MoD will double it's investment in their UCAV program (that will partially replace their Typhoons in the 2030s), in addition, they are near tripling the initial introduction of the F-35s, creating (more restoring) the RN FAA squadrons, and ensuring F-35 centric air wing for both carriers. Of course, an out of service date of 2040, and a purchase price more than that of the F-35, maters little since we will require aircraft outwards of 2060 and cheaper than the F-35......might as well be free, since there is zero money budgeted for new fighters prior to 2020.

The first JSS program wasn't a "deal" (no yards had been contracted) but a concept, a concept that was poorly thought out by the previous Liberal Government..........hence your claim that the previous "deal" was cheaper isn't grounded in reality. When did I say or suggest anything of the sort? Quite the opposite, I knew months prior (to it being released publicly) that the RCN and GoC were seeking an interim capability, and though they went a different direction from what I would have favored personally, I fully supported the notion. You alleged "shady dealing" before, of course, you offer zero evidence to support yourself. Here is the actual law: Addressing several accidents that hamper our nations's navy ability to deploy itself is in the public interest. Trudeau promised to support the RCN's ability to be a blue-water force, this political move will heed this ability, an ability the RCN has had since the Second World War. Like his father, that did away with fixed wing naval aviation, PM Trudeau is overseeing the demise of the RCN even further........personally I find it odd that you think he will spend tens of billions on new fighters and frigates (money not budgeted within this mandate), but can't currently find hundreds of millions to maintain a crucial capability for our navy.

And the Premier of Quebec has made his stance on the Trudeau Liberal's torpedo job on the RCN known: And of course, the MV Asterix is alongside the yard, outside of Quebec City, right now. Idle ships alongside is the wrong way to rebuild the RCN, as promised by Trudeau.

For those not getting the vapors, the rules on contracting services out were brought inline with sole source purchases.....in that the Government can legally do said process now with contracted services (in this example the lease for the interim AOR), as it can do with sole source purchases......like we've done with the Globemasters, Chinooks etc. Of course, what smallc is skating from is the political reality, Trudeau's first defense contract would have been a sole sourced lease for an interim AOR with a Quebec company, of course, when the previous Harper Government did sole source bids, its was likened to a pact with the devil by the Liberals and NDP. At the end of the day, it is the Liberals that are playing politics, and only hurting the RCN, over a 6 year $700 million all-in lease for an interim capability the RCN needs...... Trudeau said he would support the navy, yet his first move on the file is to torpedo it.......when if he went ahead with it, the Opposition Tories, nor the NDP, would have opposed it.........

And where is that?

No, its not: Since you're in the mood to toss around libelous statements, what rules were broken? This comes done to following line that you didn't bold: Politics......you can't blame the Tories if the Liberals feel they have a tough political choice to make (You yourself suggested the Liberals "owe" the Atlantic Provinces more than Quebec), and in the end, decided a choice the hurts the RCN, despite their promises to fix it..........If DND, within the last several weeks, can no longer afford ~$140-160 million a year to cover the lease from Davie, one must question where the money went? Could it be the tens of millions going to turn cadet summer camp facilities into housing for 25000 Syrians, coupled with the requirement to provide security on the bases etc, costs all coming out of the DND budget?

And of course the Boston Bombers were both refugees.......

Sure, but I assume BC2004 meant the last commissioned MFU, built in a Canadian yard (hence precluding the Victoria class).

He also sung a song about an item that the RCN will need, but the Liberal Government doesn't have for them.........

Technically the Halifax class, but we did procure the Orca class training vessels a decade ago, but they aren't commissioned naval vessels.

The only being sacrificed is a critical capability for the RCN. The Liberals committed, as you've noted numerous times, to keeping a "blue-water" navy......this is a funny way to go about that.

Interesting story in the National Post: From the link, that I find most telling: So the Trudeau refugees get to jump ahead of those that have been in the systems for months, if not years? Not the slightest bit surprised the Americans are concerned though.

Why wouldn't I defend the previous Government's decision to provide an interim AOR? None the less, this is a Liberal decision, that runs counter to their promise to support the RCN.......no amount of Harper (or Davie) bashing can change that.

Actually, as I cited in this thread, the Norwegian Government found that an equal number of Gripen NG aircraft would cost more than the same number of F-35As.

Nobody ever suggested it was a part of the NSPS, but an interim solution to the RCN's AOR shortfall, caused by two accidents resulting in the retirement of our previous vessels, a key requirement for a "blue-water" navy............a navy you suggested the Liberal are committed to......a funny way to confirm a commitment..........

And nobody is currently buying AORs, nor currently leasing an interim AOR.........Of course, this could all be resolved, if as you suggested, the Trudeau Government was keen on retaining a "blue-water navy"........as it stands, their first major decision has torpedoed the RCN.

No different than the list released last year.........your point? If they Liberals aren't going to fund an interim AOR, new frigates are a pipe dream.

What "shady dealings"? Are you alleging impropriety on the part of the previous Government and/or Davie? If you are, you had better provide proof or retract the baseless claim prior to libeling the two parties. The Conservatives signed the letter of intent, with the contract to be signed by the Government after the election.......nothing "shady" about that, in the interim, Davie has a container vessels tied up...and the navy will be further delayed an interim AOR. You can't blame Harper for the Liberal Government punting the program (a classic Liberal move on defense). Funny enough, with the expected cost of the refugees into the billions, including millions to be spent (from DND's budget) housing them on bases once they arrive, its no surprise something else had to be cut........and you're suggesting the Liberals have billions put aside for fighters and frigates, but clearly not ~700 million for a critical need for the RCN.

Yup, as we will be with a 4 generation fighter in the 2040-2060 time frame.

So it's the Conservatives fault that the Liberals have "delayed" the interim AOR? That's quite the dance And to think, I was going to give the Liberal Government 6 months until they started screwing with the RCN......gotta feel for Davie, left holding the bag on the MV Asterix...........

No doubt, but any long term structural/engineering upgrades to the helicopter could be shared among other users........but that can't be said about us replacing the Hornets with an aircraft that will be retired decades previous by its primary users.

Aside from the USN/USMC, the USAF is looking at it as a replacement for it's Jolly Green Giant CSAR fleet. But as a maritime helicopter, with Sikorsky now owned by Lockheed, and Lockheed's new relationship with Mitsubishi (born out of the F-35 program), there is a better than even chance that the S/H-92 could end up replacing a good portion, upwards of 50-60, of Japan's older SeaHawks.......

Without a doubt we should have purchased the EH-101 over 20 years ago, then again the AW101 when we selected the Cyclone.......but, much of the current issues/delays/cost have been associated with the mission system, which would have posed much the same issues if we had of selected the AW101 the second time around.......absent the AW101 being underpowered mind you.

The S-92 was developed as a civilian helicopter, since the Blackhawk/Seahawk family wasn't certified for civil aviation...none the less, its a robust design. The issue was the underpowered engine, which was to be rectified by Sikorsky and GE in developing the new Marine 1 replacement (The Sea Kings that transport the President), in fairness to both our previous Governments and Sikorsky/GE, they couldn't have foreseen the Obama administration cancelling the program on entering office. And its not an argument for a mature platform, but a platform in which we won't be stuck with additional development costs outside a fixed amount we agree to pay........like the F-35.

So? The other person's opinion speaks to an experience with a person with the same title, not the actual person in charge of the office.........that is akin to saying Carter or Nixon were great Presidents because Reagan and FDR were.... ---------- By all means though, provide us where the money is to come from......you've suggested the money will be found from within the current budget, by all means, expand on that.