Goodbye Greens - Hello Pirates?

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

There seems to be a new international political movement afoot, and I'm wondering whether now that the Greens appear to have eclipsed, is it possible that this will become the new global cause?

http://www.pp-international.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=20

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

There seems to be a new international political movement afoot, and I'm wondering whether now that the Greens appear to have eclipsed, is it possible that this will become the new global cause?

http://www.pp-international.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=20

What? Doesn't anybody think that a Pirate Party will be a political force in Canada?

[Oleg Bach]

What? Doesn't anybody think that a Pirate Party will be a political force in Canada?

Banksters = pirates= privateers. Who knows - maybe our supreme leaders are going to come out of the political closet?

[CAMP]

Banksters = pirates= privateers. Who knows - maybe our supreme leaders are going to come out of the political closet?

Yah Harper would look good with a patch on one eye...lol

[Visionseeker]

There seems to be a new international political movement afoot, and I'm wondering whether now that the Greens appear to have eclipsed, is it possible that this will become the new global cause?

http://www.pp-international.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=20

Aaargh matey! Finally, a party for the likes of me. Yarrr!

[Bonam]

Well if the only party that stands for the free exchange of information has to call themselves "pirates", I guess that says more about our society than it does about the party.

[CAMP]

Well if the only party that stands for the free exchange of information has to call themselves "pirates", I guess that says more about our society than it does about the party.

The name is not exactly one of high reputability. Pirates steal. I think we could just add the expressive to the parties we now have and call them the Conservative Pirates, Liberal Pirates, etc.

This pirate party movement is probably just a fad, like the rhino party.

If you want to get involved with a real party that has a solid base check out the Central Party of Canada.

[benny]

One of the three core beliefs of the Pirate Party is that patents and private monopolies are harmful to society. To me, I don't think free riders are more artistically and intellectually creative than people who expect money in exchange of their time and research efforts.

Edited June 30, 2009 by benny

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

The name is not exactly one of high reputability. Pirates steal. I think we could just add the expressive to the parties we now have and call them the Conservative Pirates, Liberal Pirates, etc.

This pirate party movement is probably just a fad, like the rhino party.

If you want to get involved with a real party that has a solid base check out the Central Party of Canada.

If you really want to get people involved, you should have called it "Party Central of Canada" and run on a platform of partying, clubbing, and other hedonistic-oriented social concepts. Most Canadians are apolitical and really aren't all that interested in being induced into greater political awareness. So you could say that your party is dead in the water.

Will it be ready for a fall elections? Will it even be able to run candidates as independents if need be? I doubt it.

Also, your platform comes across as a lite version of the former Reform Party. So where does the party stand on social issues, health care, the economy, the environment. What about the Senate and the Monarchy?

[CAMP]

If you really want to get people involved, you should have called it "Party Central of Canada" and run on a platform of partying, clubbing, and other hedonistic-oriented social concepts. Most Canadians are apolitical and really aren't all that interested in being induced into greater political awareness. So you could say that your party is dead in the water.

Will it be ready for a fall elections? Will it even be able to run candidates as independents if need be? I doubt it.

Also, your platform comes across as a lite version of the former Reform Party. So where does the party stand on social issues, health care, the economy, the environment. What about the Senate and the Monarchy?

We most likely won't be a registered party by the fall because all the logistics required for Elections Canada submission is lengthly. We already have 3 Independent Candidates who will be running in the next election two in Toronto and one in New Brunswick. We have a policy page that explains all of those questions you've asked.

visit our website and read it.

This party is built by regular everyday Canadians who want a real alternative to vote for.

When we set up this party the philosophy came together as you see it.

I believe the Reform party had it right except they did not protect themselves from being a top down organized party and were of course swallowed up by the Conservatives because of this.

We are in the process of creating our bylaws to ensure this can't happen.

We meet regularly (almost weekly) using conference software as we continue to build the party.

We do this because we have people all across Canada now and it would be impossible to do it otherwise.

Remember it took the Reform party 20 years to get where it was before it's sad amalgamation, and the Greens also took that long. If anything we are moving along at a very good pace compared to them.

But this time the regular everyday Canadian who wanted reform will NOT be sold out to the Conservatives or anyone else.

[jbg]

There seems to be a new international political movement afoot, and I'm wondering whether now that the Greens appear to have eclipsed, is it possible that this will become the new global cause?

http://www.pp-international.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=20

Been there done that on this Board (link).

I think we could just add the expressive to the parties we now have and call them the Conservative Pirates, Liberal Pirates, etc.

Is a Conservative Pirate one that's careful and cautious in his life style and a Liberal one a Pirate that has firmly held beliefs about protecting workers? Sort of like Robin Hood?

[CAMP]

Been there done that on this Board (link).

Is a Conservative Pirate one that's careful and cautious in his life style and a Liberal one a Pirate that has firmly held beliefs about protecting workers? Sort of like Robin Hood?

Conservative Pirates are sort of like honey bees, they have one boss, (Mad Man Mike) hoard all their honey and sting you if you try to take some.

The Liberal Pirates are like killer bees, same concept just more dangerous (leader named Zaggy Ziggy Iggy) but they'll kill you if you look at them sideways.

Oh and you forgot about the NDP they have Taliban Jack as their one eyed patched captain..lol

Might as well mention the Green Pirates too they ride icebergs instead of ships.

And last but not lease in the Block Boys, there still trying to figure out how to say arrrrr matey in French.

All in jest...lol

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

We most likely won't be a registered party by the fall because all the logistics required for Elections Canada submission is lengthly. We already have 3 Independent Candidates who will be running in the next election two in Toronto and one in New Brunswick. We have a policy page that explains all of those questions you've asked.

visit our website and read it.

This party is built by regular everyday Canadians who want a real alternative to vote for.

When we set up this party the philosophy came together as you see it.

I believe the Reform party had it right except they did not protect themselves from being a top down organized party and were of course swallowed up by the Conservatives because of this.

Yes, I did visit it and that's why I was asking. I don't recall seeing anything on those issues, but I'll check again later.

So it is essentially another Reform Party. If this undermines the CPC's support, I have no problem with that.

The Reform swallowed the PCs - the name is just a cover, we all really know it's basically still the Reform party.

[jbg]

And last but not lease in the Block Boys, there still trying to figure out how to say arrrrr matey in French.

Blockheads?

[CAMP]

Yes, I did visit it and that's why I was asking. I don't recall seeing anything on those issues, but I'll check again later.

So it is essentially another Reform Party. If this undermines the CPC's support, I have no problem with that.

The Reform swallowed the PCs - the name is just a cover, we all really know it's basically still the Reform party.

Well either way who swallowed who doesn't matter the point is that it is no different than the old pc's or liberals etc. All of them are top down boss whip parties with no regard for really listening to their constituents. They all just do whatever they want to try and undermine each other in a play for power to control everything.

You should find our policies on the policies page. There are about 20 of them.

[benny]

About the length of authorship and patent protections, I think the policy of the new Centrist party should revolve around the sacrifices that were required by authors and inventors to create something new. The bigger the sacrifices, the longer should be the duration of the legal protection against copies.

[CAMP]

About the length of authorship and patent protections, I think the policy of the new Centrist party should revolve around the sacrifices that were required by authors and inventors to create something new. The bigger the sacrifices, the longer should be the duration of the legal protection against copies.

The Central Party would have to have this issue brought up as an issue of importance in a primary poll before it could be dealt with. Canadians will drive the government to look into issues that bother them by being polled.

This is all explained on the website. New legislation would also have to be acceptable to Canadians via polling and then their MP's would enter the House of Commons and vote it through. Any issue of this nature would have Canadians involved directly... hence we call it direct democracy.

Edited July 5, 2009 by CAMP

[ToadBrother]

About the length of authorship and patent protections, I think the policy of the new Centrist party should revolve around the sacrifices that were required by authors and inventors to create something new. The bigger the sacrifices, the longer should be the duration of the legal protection against copies.

What does this even mean? If I take five years to write a book but someone else only takes a year, that means I longer protections than he does? If I write a book with 500 pages and he writes a book with 250, I get twice the protection?

When copyrights ran out after 50 years, it was the perfect balance between the needs of the creator and the needs of the wider society. The minute they started allowing Walt Disney to basically make an infinite-length copyright on Mickey Mouse, it all went out the door.

As to patents, my chief complaint is what they allow to be patented. Business method and software patents are ludicrous (think Amazon's One-Click patent or Microsoft's FAT file system patent).

[ToadBrother]

Any issue of this nature would have Canadians involved directly... hence we call it direct democracy.

The Athenians tried that once. Look up Socrates.

It's totally off-topic, but tell me, just want wouldn't require a vote from the public? Would you have to have a poll to make a declaration of war?

[CAMP]

The Athenians tried that once. Look up Socrates.

It's totally off-topic, but tell me, just want wouldn't require a vote from the public? Would you have to have a poll to make a declaration of war?

It is often argued that Socrates believed "ideals belong in a world only the wise man can understand

Socrates was in no way subtle about his particular beliefs on government. He openly objected to the democracy that ran Athens during his adult life. It was not only Athenian democracy: Socrates objected to any form of government that did not conform to his ideal of a perfect republic led by philosophers, and Athenian government was far from that. It is, however, possible that the Socrates of Plato's Republic is colored by Plato's own views. During the last years of Socrates' life, Athens was in continual flux due to political upheaval. Democracy was at last overthrown by a junta known as the Thirty Tyrants, led by Plato's relative, Critias, who had been a student of Socrates. The Tyrants ruled for about a year before the Athenian democracy was reinstated, at which point it declared an amnesty for all recent events.

So I guess regular everyday Canadians just aren't smart enough to vote/poll on issues being decided by our government, so they can push the decision in a majority direction. I can only assume that you are one of those few philosophers that have the self centered right to govern the masses.

The mobilization of war takes a good week now a days especially when we are an ocean away from any adversary.

I'm not saying yes it needs a poll or no, what I am saying is you'd probably have enough time to poll people to find out if they want to start a war. Case in point with Afghanistan, we had plenty of time to decide if we were in or out.

The only other type of war that would require an immediate response would be thermonuclear. I guess we could let whats left of our government declare war... tell you what I'll chip in for the hot dogs to roast and you get the marshmellows...........

[ToadBrother]

It is often argued that Socrates believed "ideals belong in a world only the wise man can understand

Socrates was in no way subtle about his particular beliefs on government. He openly objected to the democracy that ran Athens during his adult life. It was not only Athenian democracy: Socrates objected to any form of government that did not conform to his ideal of a perfect republic led by philosophers, and Athenian government was far from that. It is, however, possible that the Socrates of Plato's Republic is colored by Plato's own views. During the last years of Socrates' life, Athens was in continual flux due to political upheaval. Democracy was at last overthrown by a junta known as the Thirty Tyrants, led by Plato's relative, Critias, who had been a student of Socrates. The Tyrants ruled for about a year before the Athenian democracy was reinstated, at which point it declared an amnesty for all recent events.

You forgot to mention the part where the Athenian REpublic democratically decided to make Socrates commit suicide.

So I guess regular everyday Canadians just aren't smart enough to vote/poll on issues being decided by our government, so they can push the decision in a majority direction. I can only assume that you are one of those few philosophers that have the self centered right to govern the masses.

I'm not even sure half the time our politicians are smart enough. I'd sooner see more experts in positions of power than watering things down any further. I just don't think Direct Democracy is any sort of panacea, and unless heavily restrained by constitutional guards, I fiind the idea positively frightening.

The mobilization of war takes a good week now a days especially when we are an ocean away from any adversary.

I'm not saying yes it needs a poll or no, what I am saying is you'd probably have enough time to poll people to find out if they want to start a war. Case in point with Afghanistan, we had plenty of time to decide if we were in or out.

The only other type of war that would require an immediate response would be thermonuclear. I guess we could let whats left of our government declare war... tell you what I'll chip in for the hot dogs to roast and you get the marshmellows...........

A government run by polls. How is that any different than what we've had for the last five years?

[CAMP]

You forgot to mention the part where the Athenian REpublic democratically decided to make Socrates commit suicide.

Socrates and his times is really not even relevant to today's democracy or the type the Central Party of Canada proposes. The world was a much different place back then in the education and civility of the population.

I'm not even sure half the time our politicians are smart enough. I'd sooner see more experts in positions of power than watering things down any further. I just don't think Direct Democracy is any sort of panacea, and unless heavily restrained by constitutional guards, I fiind the idea positively frightening.

The system proposed by the Central Party works with in the Constitutional Monarchy. All we are doing is allowing input in between mandates via polling and or referendums on major issues. MP's still would vote as they do now in the house. You're living in a somewhat democratic society and afraid of what the majority would do? There's a conflict of thought.

A government run by polls. How is that any different than what we've had for the last five years?

Way different. If MP's are responsible to their constituents ( who are polled regularly) instead of party whips we are much closer to true democracy. This is one of The Central Parties founding principles.

[benny]

What does this even mean? If I take five years to write a book but someone else only takes a year, that means I longer protections than he does? If I write a book with 500 pages and he writes a book with 250, I get twice the protection?

When copyrights ran out after 50 years, it was the perfect balance between the needs of the creator and the needs of the wider society. The minute they started allowing Walt Disney to basically make an infinite-length copyright on Mickey Mouse, it all went out the door.

As to patents, my chief complaint is what they allow to be patented. Business method and software patents are ludicrous (think Amazon's One-Click patent or Microsoft's FAT file system patent).

When I try to imagine what kind of arguments would settle international conflicts in between relatively creative countries with relatively free-riding countries, I can only think about arguments revolving about cost (sacrifices).

[ToadBrother]

Way different. If MP's are responsible to their constituents ( who are polled regularly) instead of party whips we are much closer to true democracy. This is one of The Central Parties founding principles.

Who gets to decide what's polled? My MP sends out bulletins every few months that inevitably contain at least one polling question. Of course, they tend to be hot button issues, and that's what strikes me about polling. You don't get polls about whether the nearest international airport should have a runway added, or any of the other countless thousands of decisions made very year. I mean, what are we talking about, if it gets into Question Period or the scrum and Lloyd Robertson ends up talking about it on the 10pm broadcast, then it's a poll? Is it every money bill? And are these polls binding? What percentage of the riding has to respond, or is it a statistical sample? Is this supposed to be Ross Perot's box with buttons on it? What are the limits of the polling questions? If I want to stop status Indians in my riding from getting special fishing rights, despite Supreme Court rulings, can I get enough people to override the constitution and previous precedents? Most importantly, could a poll be created to force Stockwell Day to change his name to Doris Day?

[benny]

Who gets to decide what's polled? My MP sends out bulletins every few months that inevitably contain at least one polling question. Of course, they tend to be hot button issues, and that's what strikes me about polling. You don't get polls about whether the nearest international airport should have a runway added, or any of the other countless thousands of decisions made very year. I mean, what are we talking about, if it gets into Question Period or the scrum and Lloyd Robertson ends up talking about it on the 10pm broadcast, then it's a poll? Is it every money bill? And are these polls binding? What percentage of the riding has to respond, or is it a statistical sample? Is this supposed to be Ross Perot's box with buttons on it? What are the limits of the polling questions? If I want to stop status Indians in my riding from getting special fishing rights, despite Supreme Court rulings, can I get enough people to override the constitution and previous precedents? Most importantly, could a poll be created to force Stockwell Day to change his name to Doris Day?

The only limit to polling is I think to be found in a poll where a 50/50 split is the result. Indeed, can we still speak of the will of the people when a people is divided in such a manner!? The only way out of this predicament, is for the population to debate or deliberate on the issue and then revote.