greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yeah, I think we should have just asked the bad men to pretty please be nice to everyone - problem solved. Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what diplomacy entails. Your argument is an over-simplification. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 No, diplomacy is diplomacy...it's talking...it's not killing. War is killing, war is violence. Besides, diplomacy is more cost effective than war. If you and I were on a deserted island, and their was only enough fresh food and water for one person, and I had my Colt 1911, how far would diplomacy take you? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 I think we ought to have lots of armed forces equipment, and trained personnel. But military power without diplomacy is a waste of blood, and treasure. I got news for ya...with war-mongering you might win the battle, but without diplomacy, and looking after the bottom line, you'll lose the war. As I’ve said before, tell that to the people of Carthage. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 I think we ought to have lots of armed forces equipment, and trained personnel. But that is still "profiteering"...who's gonna build the "equipment". But military power without diplomacy is a waste of blood, and treasure. Nothing I've stated precludes diplomacy. I got news for ya...with war-mongering you might win the battle, but without diplomacy, and looking after the bottom line, you'll lose the war. Either way, I know that with peace-mongering you will lose both. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "Warfare is politics by other means" - Clausewitz You stayed in a Holiday Inn too? Quote
Guest American Woman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what diplomacy entails. Your argument is an over-simplification. My argument is an impossibility. We didn't go to war without trying diplomacy first while they didn't try talking to anyone before killing innocent civilians worldwide. But I'm curiouis. What, after all this time, do you think would have made them be 'nice?' What do you think it would have taken to make them happy with us? ie: pacify them? Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "Warfare is politics by other means" - Clausewitz "Warfare should only be engaged in as a last resort" - me Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "Warfare should only be engaged in as a last resort" - me meh? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 The military will tell Government that to achieve their stated objectives they will require x. Is military a branch of government? Who do military lobbyists lobby? How so? I need water and food to live (the requirement)......McDonalds can meet that requirement if I so choose. Do fat people exist? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "Warfare should only be engaged in as a last resort" - me “Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't.” Ben Franklin Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Is military a branch of government? In Democracies yes. Who do military lobbyists lobby? Those with the control of the money. Do fat people exist? Sure they do. What's your point? Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 If you and I were on a deserted island, and their was only enough fresh food and water for one person, and I had my Colt 1911, how far would diplomacy take you? We could negotiate a settlement that benefits us both. Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 As I’ve said before, tell that to the people of Carthage. And how did that work out for the Romans? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 We could negotiate a settlement that benefits us both. But you are negotiating from a very weak position. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 We could negotiate a settlement that benefits us both. Ok, Demonstrate your ability to negotiate with me: There’s enough coconuts for one of us, I’m going to eat them and I’ll ensure that I eat them with my Colt .45ACP. Negotiate away. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Negotiate away. How about a blowjob for some coconuts? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 And how did that work out for the Romans? Rather well. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 How about a blowjob for some coconuts? Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 But that is still "profiteering"...who's gonna build the "equipment". Profiting from the sale of a product is fine. Colluding to create the conditions that necessitate the contracts for building equipment is not fine. Nothing I've stated precludes diplomacy. "The best defense is a strong offense." (12:54pm) Either way, I know that with peace-mongering you will lose both. Explain. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Profiting from the sale of a product is fine. Colluding to create the conditions that necessitate the contracts for building equipment is not fine. Where’s the collusion on Dassault’s part? Do they care if India uses their product for it’s intended purpose or not? Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 My argument is an impossibility. We didn't go to war without trying diplomacy first while they didn't try talking to anyone before killing innocent civilians worldwide. But I'm curiouis. What, after all this time, do you think would have made them be 'nice?' What do you think it would have taken to make them happy with us? ie: pacify them? Who's "they"? Made who "be nice"? "Make" them happy with us? People are generally "happy" with you when you leave them alone. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) We could negotiate a settlement that benefits us both. Then allow me to repeat: We didn't go to war without trying diplomacy first while they didn't try talking to anyone before killing innocent civilians worldwide. But I'm curiouis. What, after all this time, do you think would have made them be 'nice?' What do you think it would have taken to make them happy with us? ie: pacify them? Edited to add: I see you can't answer the questions. Just as I thought. But allow me to address your questions: Who's "they"?Made who "be nice"? "Make" them happy with us? People are generally "happy" with you when you leave them alone. You suggest we negotiate and you don't even know with who?? People are "generally" decent too, but sometimes there are exceptions to that rule, eh? Edited February 5, 2012 by American Woman Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Profiting from the sale of a product is fine. Colluding to create the conditions that necessitate the contracts for building equipment is not fine. Governments can create such conditions without any such collusion. War powers nationalize entire industries. "The best defense is a strong offense." (12:54pm) Still doesn't preclude diplomacy. The biggest military on this planet also has the most number of embassies/consulates and State Department. Explain. Your pacifist/isolationist position guarantees the erosion of economic and political sovereignty. Peace at what price? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 “Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't.” Ben Franklin "Making war for the sake of war is a waste of time, money, and lives." - me Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "Making war for the sake of war is a waste of time, money, and lives." - me What happened to our coconut negotiations? They all fall to ball I suppose....... Quote
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