Argus Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I dont think Candians asked you to risk your life at all. You are a volunteer. I could personally care less if Canada had any armed forces at all.Andrew Until there's an emergency, be it civil unrest from one group or another, or earthquakes or whatever, then you'll be screaming for help and angry there isn't more of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Can you enunciate any way in which Harper has "mismanaged" the mission that your party accepted and begun? Any deviation from police or procedure in any way, shape or form?I don't think you oppose the mission for any other reason than your party does - crass political opportunism. If Martin had been re-elected you'd be sneering at those questioning the mission and questioning their patriotism. As for supporting the troops - the Liberal Party has never supported our troops, anywhere. Liberals have a knee-jerk reflexive dislike and contempt for military people. Mismanagement is not having an exit strategy that you stick with. Mismanagement is not adequately explaining the mission or setting up benchmarks from our allies or the Afghans themselves. The Conservative party certainly has shown how they support the troops by blowing off the families over the funeral issue until the families went to press conferences. I'd be making the same argument on the Afghan mission whether the Liberals, NDP or Tories were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Michael Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Well hurrah. Metro Council saw "sense" and voted to keep the annoying, meaningless magnets. What a surprise. What a principled decision. I'm sure the situation in Afghanistan will continue to improve as a direct result. Great post. This last paragraph does seem a bit on the cynical side though. Pity you missed the original Iranian hostage application (that I well remember). It is that which makes the present application of the same symbol seem like mockery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Layton doesn't give a shit about the troops. He and his party are mortally offended that we have military people involved in a military confrontation with "brown people" on the side of the United States. They despise the United States, and don't want us allying ourselves with them in any way. You really are full of hot air, aren't you? The anger and frothing of the mouth can be felt all the way over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningdog Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Layton doesn't give a shit about the troops. He and his party are mortally offended that we have military people involved in a military confrontation with "brown people" on the side of the United States. They despise the United States, and don't want us allying ourselves with them in any way. You really are full of hot air, aren't you? The anger and frothing of the mouth can be felt all the way over here. Did you expect anything else? Sometimes Argus makes good points, but most of it is pure anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Yes indeed. And as I just said the petro-dollars were kept flowing the proper way for another ten glorious years. It kept us riding high through the 90's. But if you are offering that as an example of the war's "success", don't come around now with a sob story about the pains of the Iraquis under Saddam or those of the Afghanis the under Taliban. It can't be an example of success THEN and a justification for war NOW. It was either wrong then and now, or not. Which do you believe? A failure would have been the lion's share of the flow of gulf oil in the hands of Saddam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margrace Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Granted I live in a small town area but all they people I know or talk too support our troops, they do not want them dying in Afghanistan just to salve a couple of big egos, Harper and Bush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewL Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I dont think Candians asked you to risk your life at all. You are a volunteer. I could personally care less if Canada had any armed forces at all. Andrew Until there's an emergency, be it civil unrest from one group or another, or earthquakes or whatever, then you'll be screaming for help and angry there isn't more of it Why we we need armed forces to respond to an earthquake? We would only need recuse response teams. We have police and RCMP for civil unrest. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Michael Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Why we we need armed forces to respond to an earthquake? We would only need recuse response teams. We have police and RCMP for civil unrest. Andrew All of our existing police forces and RCMP are what is needed to maintain normal, everyday 'peace-keeping'. There are very few 'extra' police forces available for emergency assignment. Nowhere near the numbers needed. In the case of a major emergency such as a extended urban black-out or natural disaster, the local need for 'peacekeeping' forces rises exponentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 CLRV: Well you're quite the speechifier yourself, A.G., if your subsequent response is any indication. Thank you, I've won a few golden soap boxes awards. welcome to the boards. What a convenience that this board has its very own returning soldier. Just returned, I infer, from the Afghanistan theatre to cheering throngs and a field of yellow ribbons, row on row. I'm glad this vision gave you pleasure and continues to do so. It certainly gives me a warm glow. It is a convinence is it, but i'm not the only one on this board, there is lots of soldiers with past and present experiance. Even soldiers have a interest in politics and polictical discussions. As for the vision i'm glad you feel the same way. Who needs adequate kevlar and body armour anyway? Who needs vehicles that can stand up to an IED? An experienced foot soldier like yourself, fresh from battle and still dusty, would know the value of a ribbon and a bog roll when faced with a screaming Taliban warrior better than a poor civvie like me who just wouldn't "get it". I get the piont your driving at, but you and i both know that to get the majority of Canadians to stand up and speak with one voice on this topic is impossable, and in todays world maybe even anti Canadian. my piont was most soldiers have come to this conclusion long ago, change is slow, very slow. and right now if a roll of toilet paper is the best we can do then we'll smile, say thanks and be greatful to be wiping our arse with paper rather than cutting up my t-shirt. And when, exactly did I call the troops ungrateful? Oops. There I go, defending myself from an unwarrented attack instead of ignoring it as it should be ignored. I did'nt say you did, i wanted the other readers to know that although there is much more that we all could be doing that i did not want to sound ungreatful for what i did recieve. it's not an attack ,nor was it meant to be. MY nerve? When did *I* get a say? It wasn't MY nerve that got us into this. Give me a break, the liberals used to live by the polls, did'nt do anything without one....and when this all started the vast majority of Canadians did support this mission to the hilt...But you still have not mentioned WHY ? because history has shown us it can't be doneNow you're catching on History has shown us that france can be invaded and conquored at will, but i don't see Canada building any landing craft, what a great way to solve this Quebec separation problem...give them the mother country. was that my outside vioce, sorry.... Oh really? Did we indeed? Was there a referendum or something that I just missed? Some democratic process where the "majority" of Canadians got a say? That's news to me, because I'm almost certain nobody even asked me Like i said before the liberals did nothing with out polls, and lets just say for augument sake they left you out, I still can not believe they would, being a almost golden soap box winner....you still have a vote, you still have the freedom of speach, freedom to contact your MP, freedom to demostrate, plenty of ways to get your voice , your opinion heard. So, the smaller brother isn't a pussy just for standing behind the big bro, shouting and jeering like the chickenhawks and their pathetic little ribbons. He's only bad when he realizes that big bro has once again gotten himself into more shit than he can handle with his big mouth and sensibly advises him on the better part of valour? I see. Schoolyard analogies are so helpful when talking geopolitics. They're almost as good as sports terms like SLAM DUNK! And i was so sure that was a winner, damn ... But you got it all wrong, It was the majority of Canadians that were screaming like chicken hawks, hell the military even said that we could not handle a mission of this size at this time....we got our orders pack-up, were going anyways...As for our big months getting us into trouble hard to say, by the time we were in Afgan doing the job that Canadians gave us.... "poof" most of our support was gone...no sensibly advice, nothing but dust in the wind.... Yes now the majority of Canadians don't like the mission, they'll say so in a poll atleast but will they march as a majority to force our government into action, hell no, thats just un Canadian...we'll let the soldiers hang out to dry, stupid bastards for going over anyways. WTF do we know about war , why would they listen to us anyways.... Who knew?"OTTAWA (CP) - Canadian military officials removed four journalists accompanying troops on an Afghanistan operation earlier this year after complaints from allies, newly released documents show Thats quit the example, they have removed a couple of journists on a few combined operations, All a soldier has to do to get his name in the paper, is to make an off color remark at the mess hall, or at timmies, and you'll be front page news. on top of all the reporters there is tones of blogs created by soldiers for soldiers, shit go to you tube and you'll get all the combat footage you can handle... check out ARMY.CA thier all soldiers on thier all freely expressing thier opinions on ever subject...unless your catchme they don't take kindly to NDP peaceniks. My piont is soldiers are a very vocal lot, and will answer any of your questions without fear. At any rate, the issue in war was never about what the soldiers think. As someone has already pointed out in this thread, they do what they are ordered. Theirs not to question why. Theirs but to do or die. That's why it's important for those of us back at home, whose freedoms they are being killed and maimed to protect, should USE those freedoms to challange lies and deceit whenever we can. Especially since the troops get lied to so foully. Why would'nt it , any reasonable person would want the facts from all sides of the issue before they made a decission would they not. Soldiers are not mindless robots, Yes we follow orders, but everyone of them are volunteers, you want out tell the padre and your on a plane...and yet most are with more than one tour under thier belts, you can fool them once, but's it is highly unlikely you'll fool them twice...they go because we think we are making a difference and re building something better than what it was...Thats what Canadians at home are just not getting... You talk a good game when it comes to using your freedoms to challage lies and deciet , but where is the majority of Canadians, at home safe and sound in thier living rooms, no massive marches on parliment hill, no flooding thier MP's mail basket with pations...that is the problem that is frustrating for a soldier, it was no problem getting us over here, but the majority does not want to do anything to get us back...and now we are left holding the bag fighting and dying for a cause that the majority sent us over here to do in the first place... Odd that you would bring up clean water, though. How soon we forget the international laughing stock Canada became because of the deployment of our DART water system to tsunami victims two years ago. Re-read what I said above about the hypocrisy of "supporting the troops" in the face of such poor equippage. I would'nt say we were the laughing stock, if any thing our osmosis process was to much for the job, but then again could have passed out tablets like the head of the red cross had stated, sure the water was black, and had shit floating in it but those tablets made it drinkable...ya if you were a camel in the middle of the desert...it's funny the locals did'nt complain, about the water, nor the medical help, or the construction equipment that came in... As far as the lack of equipment, your right, but like i said if you can't get the majority to stand up and speak as one vioce to save our troops in Afgan, how are you going to get them to agree to spend the bils we need for equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FascistLibertarian Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Why we we need armed forces to respond to an earthquake? We would only need recuse response teams. We have police and RCMP for civil unrest. Andrew FLQ Crisis, Oka, Olympics (past and future), Winnipeg flooding, the ice storm. Yeah the military isnt needed. We should really get rid of the CF, theres no way we would ever need them. I cant even understand why people would want to get rid of the armed forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Granted I live in a small town area but all they people I know or talk too support our troops, they do not want them dying in Afghanistan just to salve a couple of big egos, Harper and Bush I know Margrace! Wasn't it terrible how Harper sent them there? Sent them there to remove a government harbouring terrorists that killed some 3-thousand Americans, a few hundred Britons and Spaniards and countless Aussies (in Bali)? Sent them to remove the ability of al-Qaeda to hide and profit, all while planning a major attack on us? Should we turn our back on our NATO treaty obligations because you don't like the party affiliation of the current US President? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 My daughter, who is attending RMC and is currently in St Jean sur Richilieu QC at her BOTP course recently sent me one of these from the Canex store for a new vehicle I have, I'm hard pressed to put it on my vehicle because of the inferece that supporters of displaying these magnets also support Harpers views militarily. Do you support your daughter's decision to join the military, if yes then show her, and the hell what everyone else thinks, if anyone asks tell them exactly how you think. I do support her and all our troops. But I do not want that confused with support for the present governments 'mission'. I can't believe you have any hesitation at all. Your daughter was asked at recruitment if she would agree to fight whether she agreed with the mission or not. I know that for a fact. I also know for a fact that she said yes, because she wouldn't have gone any further in the recruitment process if she hadn't. She did that and she's your daughter. How can you possibly do otherwise than wave your support for her at every opportunity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Granted I live in a small town area but all they people I know or talk too support our troops, they do not want them dying in Afghanistan just to salve a couple of big egos, Harper and BushStunning ignorance like this makes me question the validity of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Michael Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Stunning ignorance like this makes me question the validity of democracy. Bemused giggles. This is slightly more colourful than your usual standard. That you can deluded into thinking that your opinion is relevant to anything or anyone is one of the features of democracy that makes it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Stunning ignorance like this makes me question the validity of democracy. Bemused giggles. This is slightly more colourful than your usual standard. That you can deluded into thinking that your opinion is relevant to anything or anyone is one of the features of democracy that makes it work. You seem to giggle bemusedly quite a lot. Is it a hereditary condition or just bad drinking water? Another manifestation of your disease seems to be stalking, picking a fight, getting trounced, and running away declaring victory. I hope you feel better soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Another manifestation of your disease seems to be stalking, picking a fight, getting trounced, and running away declaring victory. I hope you feel better soon. Wait....you think you won? Oh my. Bemused giggles is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Another manifestation of your disease seems to be stalking, picking a fight, getting trounced, and running away declaring victory. I hope you feel better soon. Wait....you think you won? Oh my. Bemused giggles is correct. Well, you are indeed bemused. Flabberghasted in fact, since you don't even know what I'm refering to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Well, you are indeed bemused. Flabberghasted in fact, since you don't even know what I'm refering to. Umm duh okay there cletus. Me no read so good.......smallville.....smallville thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Well, you are indeed bemused. Flabberghasted in fact, since you don't even know what I'm refering to. Umm duh okay there cletus. Me no read so good.......smallville.....smallville thinking. Very droll. Toodles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Should we turn our back on our NATO treaty obligations because you don't like the party affiliation of the current US President? Do you really think objection to a war/mission no matter where it is has anything to do with party affiliation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Should we turn our back on our NATO treaty obligations because you don't like the party affiliation of the current US President? Do you really think objection to a war/mission no matter where it is has anything to do with party affiliation? Yes..100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I can't believe you have any hesitation at all. Your daughter was asked at recruitment if she would agree to fight whether she agreed with the mission or not. I know that for a fact. I also know for a fact that she said yes, because she wouldn't have gone any further in the recruitment process if she hadn't. She did that and she's your daughter. How can you possibly do otherwise than wave your support for her at every opportunity? Where did I question support for my daughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Stunning ignorance like this makes me question the validity of democracy. I'm sure you question the validity of democracy anyways so what is the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Stunning ignorance like this makes me question the validity of democracy. I'm sure you question the validity of democracy anyways so what is the difference? Really? And why would you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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