Illegal Drug Use in Canada

[old_bold&cold]

Hahahhahha

I missed this pile on the floor,,,, this morning

wow ,,,bad hang over it sounds like? good for you

I could never be as bad for you as you are for you and that thought does comfort me, thank you for your effort last night.

Yeah no kids ever swallowed moms pill from the doctor ,,,, or your bottle cap for that matter as actually that's killed more than cannabis (zero)

at least with cannabis ,,nothing happens.

I tell you what ,,, I just cant have you spewing these kind of things in my friends thread.

I know you wish the drug actually did some damage ,,,we can see you droooooooling looking for one direct death

scouring google university for some scrap to throw at us with your vile bile. oldcold

Oh well just continue to lie or act stupid with your points about those hurt by cannabis,,,wow its worked so far to You.

yeah you forgot the people shot by the police when they crashed the wrong house ,,

yeah they were killed by cannabis were they not?

You know you dont have to fabricate just to say hello ,,oldcold ,,,

hi buddy what are you going to fabricate for a comeback buddy? hahhaha ok so I am in a good mood and was nice to him

The last I looked no dealers were giving out drugs in child proof containers now were they? The parents who are pot smokers and hard drug users are not family concious people for the most part, and they are only trying to hide something where it is easily accesible but not easily found, when hiding their drugs. So yes they definitely is way more chance af a child getting into and ingesting them. Only an adelled mind would not see this.

I do not have to lie we have all read and heard of this. The only wrongful shooting I can remember when raiding a drug house was the shooting of an unarmed man walking towards the officers screaming and holding a Rastafrican object that officers mistook for a gun. He lived and died 3 years later due to complication of that shooting. That is it for the Ottawa area. There have been others where wrong houses were entered in Canada but not where people were shot.

Back in my day in the under world yes police would raid and sometimes they would shoot, but mostly because we shot first. I have had the back car windows blown out with ashotgun blast, but never was I caught and in all the times I was ever shot at I was armed and yes in the mind set of those days would have shot at them. But that was way back then, and yes I have seen all that, lived it and got through it without ever getting caught. But I also know that world well and believe me when I say it is as dirty and violent as any, and drugs have made it so no one can ever trust anyone else who is doing drugs. To the point that it is better to kill those with habits and are caught, then to trust them not to talk. That is just the way it has evolved and the way that you say you think should be legal.

You really need to go away and do some thinking before you spout off. Some one may start to think you are dealing coke at that strip club of yours

[jdobbin]

Back in my day in the under world yes police would raid and sometimes they would shoot, but mostly because we shot first. I have had the back car windows blown out with ashotgun blast, but never was I caught and in all the times I was ever shot at I was armed and yes in the mind set of those days would have shot at them. But that was way back then, and yes I have seen all that, lived it and got through it without ever getting caught. But I also know that world well and believe me when I say it is as dirty and violent as any, and drugs have made it so no one can ever trust anyone else who is doing drugs. To the point that it is better to kill those with habits and are caught, then to trust them not to talk. That is just the way it has evolved and the way that you say you think should be legal.

Yeesh, that is pretty scary. You are lucky something like this didn't happen:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[old_bold&cold]

Yeesh, that is pretty scary. You are lucky something like this didn't happen:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

I would tend to think that this officer was shot by someone from the domestic disturbance, but given the area and the fact that, that far north their are many people with rifles, that could take a shot at him. This makes me wonder if they should not have had two officers per car in the night time, but I guess budgets etc., were also a problem. It is real easy for use who sit this far south where people normally are safe, to forget that our north is still much like the old west was.

[jdobbin]

I would tend to think that this officer was shot by someone from the domestic disturbance, but given the area and the fact that, that far north their are many people with rifles, that could take a shot at him. This makes me wonder if they should not have had two officers per car in the night time, but I guess budgets etc., were also a problem. It is real easy for use who sit this far south where people normally are safe, to forget that our north is still much like the old west was.

I think more RCMP have been shot by people in the good old south and only a few of those times have had anything to do with domestic disturbances.

[Guest coot]

The last I looked no dealers were giving out drugs in child proof containers now were they? The parents who are pot smokers and hard drug users are not family concious people for the most part, and they are only trying to hide something where it is easily accesible but not easily found, when hiding their drugs. So yes they definitely is way more chance af a child getting into and ingesting them. Only an adelled mind would not see this.

Again, only an adled mind could not tell the difference between the crime of drug possession and the crime of negligence. Parents are allowed to store all sorts of dangerous products in their home that their children could get into, ranging from cleaning products to alcohol to prescription drugs. All of these products have a fatal dose (i.e., ingest too much and you will die). It is their responsibility to make sure the kids don't get into them. Making possession of them illegal would be a ridiculous response.

With pot, there is no fatal dose. Water has a fatal dose, but weed doesn't. Why would you make possession of this product illegal, and ignore the ones that are actually dangerous?

[old_bold&cold]

I think more RCMP have been shot by people in the good old south and only a few of those times have had anything to do with domestic disturbances.

This may be so, but I will also say that when the RCMP raid criminal enterprises they are very well armoured and equipped with weapons. The people who are in the underworld today, have no fear of killing police and many will load their own guns with copperjacketed nylon tipped bullets, that will peirce most body armour. Those who have good aims (gotten from much practice) will shoot for the head and face, which will kill quickly. Others will aim for the exposed armes and legs, but yes either way more police get kiiled here in the south, then the north. But not if you take population into account.

Even the street level dealers now are all armed and this is just like the USA back 20 years ago. It will climb higher and higher, to where cop killing will be something they will brag about. Where back in my day that was something that was kept so quiet that talking about it, would get you kiiled. Times change and I do not think for the better. Crooks in the way back when who were sucessful, were reasonably smart. Today it seems that they recruit from the shallow end of the gene pool. Our friend with the Green party is a good example of this thinking. I better leave it there as I do not want to hurt any feelings by stating the obvious.

[Drea]

First off pot is not victimless. Everyone who smokes pot and gets caught are become victims because they broke the law.

Therefore if it were legal the person would not be a victim...

Stupid pot smokers just can not see this though. The people killed in the pot gro-ops by rival pot growers are victims of a crime caused directly with the growing of pot.

If pot were regulated and grown legally there would be no pot grow op rivalries and ergo no criminals, no people killed.

Children have gotten into parents weed and other drugs and have ODed, directly because their parents had an illegal drug in their house. That child is a victim.

No one has ever overdosed on marijuana. Ever. When I was a kid my friend and I got into my parents' vodka. Drank the whole damn 26'er. I puked for hours and am damn lucky I didn't die. Her and I, couple years later found my mom's stash of weed. Not only did I not get near death, but I didn't puke or anything! Just got a serious case of the giggles... LOL

The three guys north of Cornwal Ont shot each other over a disagreement about shares of a geo-op. Again directly releated to the growing of pot.

again, if pot were regulated and grown legally there would be no pot grow op rivalries and ergo no criminals, no people killed.

Two men on trial for murder of a dealer who sold pot and could not pay for the fronted pot. One dead and two more guilty of murder, directly related to the selling and using of pot.

again, if the substance were legal no one would be fighting over it, fronting it, or whatever. You ever go to the liquor store and get a pack of beer fronted to you?

I could go on and on. But you as speaking out the wrong end when you say pot is a victimless crime.

Pot "induced" crime does not occur from smoking it, but from the fact that it is illegal to grow or sell it. The harm does not come from the substance itself.

But as usual you and yours just will not comprehend any of this, probably due to addelled brains from smoking pot. So yes you are another victim of smoking pot. So is Shavluk who thinks he is some kind of green party dream member. He is just another victim of pot and many other hard drugs. He is so adelled that he really thinks he will get people to vote for him, which just shows he is delusional. Another victim as far as I am concerned.

This is just an insult levelled so you will feel justified in your position against pot. If you do not like how pot affects you when you smoke it, don't partake of it. Why would you deny others the opportunity to legally partake in a substance they enjoy? A substance, I might add, that is no more harmful than the butter you spread on your bagel in the morning.

The only reason criminals are involved in the marijuana business is because the government isn't. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it. Anything less is pandering to folks who still believe the propaganda from the 1950's that pot is an "evil" weed.

Old bold.... people who smoke pot are not unintelligent or unemployed or "addled". Most are just regular folk who would rather have a little spliff after work than a glass of wine. We are not all sitting in basements listening to Black Sabbath. LOL

[capricorn]

I take issue with claims from cannabis proponents and users that it is not harmful. Supporters of the legalization of cannabis say those opposed to legalization are exaggerating its harmful effects. IMO this is a copout and not based on facts and reality.

A 10-year New Zealand study says smoking a joint affects the lungs to about the same degree as smoking up to five tobacco cigarettes. Part of this may be due to the practice of inhaling marijuana smoke deeply from unfiltered, hand-rolled doobies. The British medical journal The Lancet has published research claiming use of cannabis at least once can increase a person's risk by 41 per cent of suffering a psychotic illness such as schizophrenia later in life.

And on the behavioral side, a study by Melbourne University's Centre for Adolescent Health that followed 1,900 children to age 25 concluded that people who start using cannabis as teenagers are more likely than alcohol drinkers to suffer from mental illness and relationship problems, and to fail to get decent qualifications or jobs. “Cannabis really does look like the drug of choice for life’s future losers,” commented Prof. George Patton, who conducted the study.

Marijuana advocates dismiss the new research as just more of the 1950s-vintage reefer madness scare dressed up in academic respectability. But the studies say what they say: there are risks, from moderate as well as from heavy use.

http://www.capebretonpost.com/index.cfm?sid=61843&sc=151

I also think it is a misconception that if cannabis is legalized, a deadly blow will be dealt to the criminal element involved in producing and selling it. It is naive to think that if government gets involved with producing, regulating and/or selling cannabis, the viability of the black market will disappear and there will be no money to be made by criminals.

As with anything, once the government gets involved in social engineering and butts in on the free market unintended consequences usually result. Tobacco serves as the best example. Here we have a legal product which government taxes to the hilt hoping this will be a deterrent to smokers. Well guess what? Government did not anticipate or chose to ignore that exorbitant taxes would play right into the hands of a black market and cause an increase in crime.

High tax-driven prices are a form of social engineering and as such, will be enthusiastically undermined by many citizens — eve some non-smokers. This was the experience in Prohibition, and remains an element of the demand for contraband cigarettes now. Artificial prices also fly in the face of the natural laws of the market. So long as there is a demand for tobacco, it will be filled and people will pay the lowest reasonable price for it. The Black Market is, in many respects, an assertion of the basic laws of economics and human behaviour. Moreover, the morality of the high-price, high-tax strategy is reversed by its rejection. Resort to the Black Market threatens the social contract whereby the citizens give their consent to be governed. By participating in the Black Market that consent is conditionally withdrawn. For a government to continue the conditions which created the market is to invite a more general withdrawal of consent.

There is another practical issue to using high prices to control consumption. After 30 years of clear warnings about the hazards of smoking, it must be assumed that people who continue to smoke are cognizant of the risks they take. The risk and assumption of responsibility for smoking are theirs an theirs alone. Yet high tax-driven prices for cigarettes endanger other people. For example, if taxes remain high while imports diminish, robberies of stores will increase and more clerks in convenience stores will have their heads blown off in robberies. They didn’t ask to assume the risk for the smoking habits of others. If Natives continue to enjoy their tax-free status for cigarettes, the disruptions caused by the Warrior’s Society and organized criminals will continue - especially at Akwesasne and increasingly in Six Nations. A majority of Mohawks didn’t ask to have their lives disrupted by crime, and when they tried to resist they paid for it.

http://www.mackenzieinstitute.com/1994/sin-tax-failure11.htm

Cornwall Mayor Phil Poirier says many smokers are turning to the black market as a tax revolt.

"If you go buy a carton of cigarettes legally, they are approximately $70 a carton. If you buy them smuggled, they are approximately $20," he said.

"Now, a couple who each smoke a carton a week? That's a mortgage on a house."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/05/05/...-smuggling.html

IMO grow-ops would not disappear with the legalization of cannabis. Like smokers, tokers will want their fix at the lowest possible cost. If government legalizes cannabis there is no doubt that a hefty sin tax will be imposed on cannabis as it did with tobacco. In the process these high taxes have turned a large number of smokers into law breakers who, through economic necessity or principle, turn to the black market for their product. In such a scenario, why would tokers respond any differently?

[old_bold&cold]

Therefore if it were legal the person would not be a victim...

If pot were regulated and grown legally there would be no pot grow op rivalries and ergo no criminals, no people killed.

No one has ever overdosed on marijuana. Ever. When I was a kid my friend and I got into my parents' vodka. Drank the whole damn 26'er. I puked for hours and am damn lucky I didn't die. Her and I, couple years later found my mom's stash of weed. Not only did I not get near death, but I didn't puke or anything! Just got a serious case of the giggles... LOL

again, if pot were regulated and grown legally there would be no pot grow op rivalries and ergo no criminals, no people killed.

again, if the substance were legal no one would be fighting over it, fronting it, or whatever. You ever go to the liquor store and get a pack of beer fronted to you?

Pot "induced" crime does not occur from smoking it, but from the fact that it is illegal to grow or sell it. The harm does not come from the substance itself.

This is just an insult levelled so you will feel justified in your position against pot. If you do not like how pot affects you when you smoke it, don't partake of it. Why would you deny others the opportunity to legally partake in a substance they enjoy? A substance, I might add, that is no more harmful than the butter you spread on your bagel in the morning.

The only reason criminals are involved in the marijuana business is because the government isn't. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it. Anything less is pandering to folks who still believe the propaganda from the 1950's that pot is an "evil" weed.

Old bold.... people who smoke pot are not unintelligent or unemployed or "addled". Most are just regular folk who would rather have a little spliff after work than a glass of wine. We are not all sitting in basements listening to Black Sabbath. LOL

Hhhmmm. Well drea that is all verey well and good, but you see it is not legal and it will never be legal. It is that fact that makes this seem so dumb. First off legalising it will not stop gro-ops and the internal fighting. Tobacco is legal and deaths have been had from the selling of it without taxes being paid. So the same thing will happen. Only it would be on a larger scale. The majority of the public has tried pot, and only a small minority do it ever day. Most do not think it should give you a criminal record for first possession, but they also believe dealers should go to jail . So those are the facts. So yes those who get records because of being caught are vitims and also those killed in the production and the roberies in this are also vitims. So are the neighbours whose home values dropped because of the gro-op next door just sold for pennies on the dollar, because of its toxic contents and there by lower all home values near it.

You are wrong that the only reason the criminal elents is involved is because it is illegal. First off, we all know that government grown pot is very weak and it is done this way because they want to set a limit of THC content. The will not be allowed to grow it even if it was legal because of the toxic nature of the chemicals to force grow in our short season here in Canada, and greenhouses will also become toxic by canadian standard and will then have to be vented and therefore will not be in cities due to the nature of the vented toxins.

I will not say that all people who smoke pot are the waton dufus's we see in the youger examples today. But I also can use these same types to show that there is a good chance you will be like these people. I guess it all has to do with the intellect of the person to start with. As for alcohol goes, yes kids have died from ODing on that, but kids who have eaten and ingested hash as toddlers, have had many mental problemns there after as well. Just because it did not kill you does not mean it does not harm you. I also believe you said you had a kid. Mind if I drop by and get him to eat an once of hash, to see what happens? Of course you would not let me, as you know that while the kid may live he will be screwed up for quite a while, if not permanently.

As for those who enjoy their spliff after work goes, maybe their employers do not mind. One of the companies I had did highend tower work, and if I even thought they were doing drugs they would have been gone so fast. The insurane I had to pay for was very expensive but necessary. I could have easily lost all if an emplee screwed up while high, and I mean that in both the ways it can be taken. I also owned water testing laboratories, where environment needed to be controlled and monitored, if anyone smoked or did any drugs there, I would have prosecuted them, again because they could have cost me that whole laboratory. So it depends on what you do for a living as to whether your employer will make an issue of this or not. But then, that onus should fall on the people who should know this.

As to your claim about pot smoking does not induce crime goes, have you seen the long long lists of petty theft and robberies, that have been committed by kids, who were looking to find cash to buy pot? I know these do not make the newspapers, but maybe someone from the law enforcement side here on this form could supply you with the numbers. I do know from many enforement speakers to community, that the number are in the thousands each month here in Canada. But they don't count right?

Edited October 7, 2007 by old_bold&cold

[Moxie]

I have a nephew who has been a long time abuser of pot, frankly it's fried his brain. Sorry but legalizing it won't aide us in anyway except more tax dollars for the feds. The medical risks out weigh any positive for decriminalizing it. Pot smokers move on to hard drugs when pot stops working on them.

Good post Old.

[Drea]

Hhhmmm. Well drea that is all verey well and good, but you see it is not legal and it will never be legal. It is that fact that makes this seem so dumb. First off legalising it will not stop gro-ops and the internal fighting. Tobacco is legal and deaths have been had from the selling of it without taxes being paid.

Where can I get my hands on that cheap tobacco? I have never heard of it. I want some. But I would rather not risk it, so I will go to the store and buy my cigs. Just like I would rather buy pot from a liquor store than take a chance on unregulated pot. (hypothetically...if it were legal)

So the same thing will happen. Only it would be on a larger scale. The majority of the public has tried pot, and only a small minority do it ever day. Most do not think it should give you a criminal record for first possession, but they also believe dealers should go to jail . So those are the facts. So yes those who get records because of being caught are vitims and also those killed in the production and the roberies in this are also vitims. So are the neighbours whose home values dropped because of the gro-op next door just sold for pennies on the dollar, because of its toxic contents and there by lower all home values near it.

Sigh, once again, if it were sold in liquor stores it would be regulated. How many folks are killed in the production of vodka these days? If the neighbour sets up a still I would be very concerned. Those things are darn right dangerous. But we don't worry that will happen because the vodka consumer simply goes to the liquor store and gets his product. A product safely produced at a distillery.

You are wrong that the only reason the criminal elents is involved is because it is illegal. First off, we all know that government grown pot is very weak and it is done this way because they want to set a limit of THC content. The will not be allowed to grow it even if it was legal because of the toxic nature of the chemicals to force grow in our short season here in Canada, and greenhouses will also become toxic by canadian standard and will then have to be vented and therefore will not be in cities due to the nature of the vented toxins.

There is probably a grow op in your neighbourhood right now. Would it not be better to have them grow it in safe, regulated environments?

I

will not say that all people who smoke pot are the waton dufus's we see in the youger examples today. But I also can use these same types to show that there is a good chance you will be like these people. I guess it all has to do with the intellect of the person to start with. As for alcohol goes, yes kids have died from ODing on that, but kids who have eaten and ingested hash as toddlers, have had many mental problemns there after as well. Just because it did not kill you does not mean it does not harm you. I also believe you said you had a kid. Mind if I drop by and get him to eat an once of hash, to see what happens? Of course you would not let me, as you know that while the kid may live he will be screwed up for quite a while, if not permanently.

Mind if I feed your kid some bleach? Totally legal. Come on now. How many people have that much hash on hand at one time? Geez.

As for those who enjoy their spliff after work goes, maybe their employers do not mind. One of the companies I had did highend tower work, and if I even thought they were doing drugs they would have been gone so fast. The insurane I had to pay for was very expensive but necessary. I could have easily lost all if an emplee screwed up while high, and I mean that in both the ways it can be taken. I also owned water testing laboratories, where environment needed to be controlled and monitored, if anyone smoked or did any drugs there, I would have prosecuted them, again because they could have cost me that whole laboratory. So it depends on what you do for a living as to whether your employer will make an issue of this or not. But then, that onus should fall on the people who should know this.

Who said anything about smoking AT work? If friend and I go partying and he gets drunk and I get high, which one of us will be more "on the ball" at 7am the next day?

As to your claim about pot smoking does not induce crime goes, have you seen the long long lists of petty theft and robberies, that have been committed by kids, who were looking to find cash to buy pot? I know these do not make the newspapers, but maybe someone from the law enforcement side here on this form could supply you with the numbers. I do know from many enforement speakers to community, that the number are in the thousands each month here in Canada. But they don't count right?

Where do these kids get the money to buy beer or vodka?

[old_bold&cold]

Where can I get my hands on that cheap tobacco? I have never heard of it. I want some. But I would rather not risk it, so I will go to the store and buy my cigs. Just like I would rather buy pot from a liquor store than take a chance on unregulated pot. (hypothetically...if it were legal)

May I introduce you to Jenie and her Firends of the native community. It really is no secret that untaxed tobacco mostly is coming thru the reerves in Canada. So there you go, that is one lead right there, just do not get caught with it as with pot, untaxed tobacco can give you a criminal recors as well

Sigh, once again, if it were sold in liquor stores it would be regulated. How many folks are killed in the production of vodka these days? If the neighbour sets up a still I would be very concerned. Those things are darn right dangerous. But we don't worry that will happen because the vodka consumer simply goes to the liquor store and gets his product. A product safely produced at a distillery.

Once again if the liquor in the liquor store was limited to say 14% alcohol and people were looking for 25%, they would go to the moonshiners fort their product. Which by the way still is the case today. Moonshining is not all that hard and a small still can be setup almost anywhere. I do believ that in todays science classes one of the experiment is to distill alcohol from a given sample. Maybe horiculture class will show how to fast grow Pot with the twenty hours on light and 4 off and to feed by hydroponics to give the smaller root system the ability to support the lager plants. Also todays gro-ops have been using genetically modified seeds that alllow for a busher and smaller plant to make the most of the spaces available. Bye the way I am joking that schools would teach this, but it would make for a good learning experiment. Just do not use pot for it :angry:

There is probably a grow op in your neighbourhood right now. Would it not be better to have them grow it in safe, regulated environments?

If you had followed any of my posts on this, you would see that yes we get 4-6 people and their farms seized each year arounf where I live for growing pot. Some in doors and most out doors. These people are or at least should be aware that all those planes and helicopters that fly grid patterns over our area each summer, use spectrometers to find the outdoor planting and infrared for indoor gro-ops. Bein this is widely known by everyone around here, you just got to wonder at those who get caught.

I Mind if I feed your kid some bleach? Totally legal. Come on now. How many people have that much hash on hand at one time? Geez.

I know and do not dispute that bleach is harmful, you on the other hand said that pot and hash is not, and that no child eating his parents stache ever died or was harmed. I just wanted to see how far your convictions were on this aspect. And as far as having a ounce of hash on hand at any given time goes... we must be from way different times. an ounce of hash in my day was rally small time Hell that is only 28 grams and is what they are saying is personal possession in this or is it 30 grams. Either way I can see that amount, but maybe you can not.

Who said anything about smoking AT work? If friend and I go partying and he gets drunk and I get high, which one of us will be more "on the ball" at 7am the next day?

Well if you were working on a tower installing communcations electronics 200 ft above the ground. I do not think I would want to count on you being bright eyed and bushy tailed. Others may also have to put their safety in you hands at any given time and they may not think you pot smoking the night before is ok. In the labs I had we did deal with many toxins and so we had regular urine analysis, and if you tested + for pot you were gone. So from my view you would never worked for me. But I am retired now and you sure do not have to worry about me and work.

Where do these kids get the money to buy beer or vodka?

The type of kids that seems to be buying alcohol or stealling it from their parents bars, mostly seem to use their allowances for this and it is mostly done on weekends. The kids smoking pot tend to do it everyday and even in school so their needs are many time that of the other kids

Edited October 7, 2007 by old_bold&cold

[Guest coot]

I have a nephew who has been a long time abuser of pot, frankly it's fried his brain. Sorry but legalizing it won't aide us in anyway except more tax dollars for the feds. The medical risks out weigh any positive for decriminalizing it. Pot smokers move on to hard drugs when pot stops working on them.

There is no scientific documentation that marijuana does any damage to the brain. All it does is cause a reaction in cannibinoid receptors that are naturally a part of the brain. These receptors appear to have no other purpose than to react to cannibis, so rather than doing damage, cannibinoids seem to facilitate what the brain was naturally built to do. Your nephew was probably already stupid by heredity.

When its medical risks are hardly conclusive, to use the criminal justice system to govern its use to protect people from adverse health effects is downright bizarre.

And as for the gateway theory, give me a break.

[capricorn]

Speaking of cannabis smoking being a victimless crime...

"Besides identifying a fundamental mechanism in brain development, our findings may provide new perspectives to identifying the molecular changes in the brains of individuals prenatally affected by maternal cannabis abuse", says Dr. Tibor Harkany who has led the studies. "This is of social impact given the continuous growing use of marijuana, the most common illicit drug, in our society."

Earlier studies have already found that children of marijuana-smoking mothers more frequently suffer from permanent cognitive deficits, concentration disorders, hyperactivity, and impaired social interactions than non-exposed children of the same age and social background.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/72119.php

[old_bold&cold]

There is no scientific documentation that marijuana does any damage to the brain. All it does is cause a reaction in cannibinoid receptors that are naturally a part of the brain. These receptors appear to have no other purpose than to react to cannibis, so rather than doing damage, cannibinoids seem to facilitate what the brain was naturally built to do. Your nephew was probably already stupid by heredity.

When its medical risks are hardly conclusive, to use the criminal justice system to govern its use to protect people from adverse health effects is downright bizarre.

And as for the gateway theory, give me a break.

As for whether pot cause brain damage, Coot here is a fine shining example of this. Cannibinoid receptors???? where did you study anatomy? It definitely was not from any accredited place. There are receptors in the brain that handle protiens and many other hormones and drugs. But there are albsolutely no such thi ng asa cannibinoid receptor. Only an ill informed person would even try to make that pig fly. Coot go to the nearist university and go into the library and have them show you the Encycopedia of Hormones and Drugs. It will not only tell you what they are, but how they react and are received in the brain. It has been a long time since I was in school but I remeber looking up about Marijuana back then, and it did not describe anything along the lines Coot has said.

I think this just does show you that pot really does cause brain damage. They now think that man has special receptors to process pot and this therefore proves taht man was supposed to be smoking pot. Give me a break from this lunacy.

Ah I gotta go to a Thankgiving dinner, this will make for ssome real comedy at the table.

[Guest coot]

But there are albsolutely no such thi ng asa cannibinoid receptor.

You should learn how the google machine works (not to mention how to spell and write with more than a Grade 2 level of grammar) before you spout off about all the things you know nothing about. As for cannibinoid receptors, here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoids

Edited October 7, 2007 by coot

[geoffrey]

I hate to say it, but coot is right.

[shavluk]

The last I looked no dealers were giving out drugs in child proof containers now were they? The parents who are pot smokers and hard drug users are not family concious people for the most part, and they are only trying to hide something where it is easily accesible but not easily found, when hiding their drugs. So yes they definitely is way more chance af a child getting into and ingesting them. Only an adelled mind would not see this.

I do not have to lie we have all read and heard of this. The only wrongful shooting I can remember when raiding a drug house was the shooting of an unarmed man walking towards the officers screaming and holding a Rastafrican object that officers mistook for a gun. He lived and died 3 years later due to complication of that shooting. That is it for the Ottawa area. There have been others where wrong houses were entered in Canada but not where people were shot.

Back in my day in the under world yes police would raid and sometimes they would shoot, but mostly because we shot first. I have had the back car windows blown out with ashotgun blast, but never was I caught and in all the times I was ever shot at I was armed and yes in the mind set of those days would have shot at them. But that was way back then, and yes I have seen all that, lived it and got through it without ever getting caught. But I also know that world well and believe me when I say it is as dirty and violent as any, and drugs have made it so no one can ever trust anyone else who is doing drugs. To the point that it is better to kill those with habits and are caught, then to trust them not to talk. That is just the way it has evolved and the way that you say you think should be legal.

You really need to go away and do some thinking before you spout off. Some one may start to think you are dealing coke at that strip club of yours

You and your diseased mind are beneath me and I am sorry I can not waste more time on you constable.

All that you spew is about prohibition not the drugs.

You need some by the way.

Have fun with spewing your poison to others with less esteem than me.

Edited October 7, 2007 by shavluk

[shavluk]

I would tend to think that this officer was shot by someone from the domestic disturbance, but given the area and the fact that, that far north their are many people with rifles, that could take a shot at him. This makes me wonder if they should not have had two officers per car in the night time, but I guess budgets etc., were also a problem. It is real easy for use who sit this far south where people normally are safe, to forget that our north is still much like the old west was.

Probably alcohol related.

Still it is safer than illegal.

I have a son the same age and feel for the families of both parties.

[shavluk]

This may be so, but I will also say that when the RCMP raid criminal enterprises they are very well armoured and equipped with weapons. The people who are in the underworld today, have no fear of killing police and many will load their own guns with copperjacketed nylon tipped bullets, that will peirce most body armour. Those who have good aims (gotten from much practice) will shoot for the head and face, which will kill quickly. Others will aim for the exposed armes and legs, but yes either way more police get kiiled here in the south, then the north. But not if you take population into account.

Even the street level dealers now are all armed and this is just like the USA back 20 years ago. It will climb higher and higher, to where cop killing will be something they will brag about. Where back in my day that was something that was kept so quiet that talking about it, would get you kiiled. Times change and I do not think for the better. Crooks in the way back when who were sucessful, were reasonably smart. Today it seems that they recruit from the shallow end of the gene pool. Our friend with the Green party is a good example of this thinking. I better leave it there as I do not want to hurt any feelings by stating the obvious.

Wow you are a cop aren't you?

As I said Mr toxic I will pray for a speedy remedy to your miserable existence.

[kengs333]

You and your diseased mind are beneath me and I am sorry I can not waste more time on you constable.

All that you spew is about prohibition not the drugs.

You need some by the way.

Have fun with spewing your poison to others with less esteem than me.

Honestly, I suggest you start being a little more careful in what you say. You should know by now that making these kinds of one line personal attacks won't keep you around for all that long on a moderated forum. You're conduct is shameful, and I wish you would stop associating with the Green Party and championing their cause on this message board. You are just providing those people who don't consider the Green Party a legitimate party fuel for their argument.

[shavluk]

I take issue with claims from cannabis proponents and users that it is not harmful. Supporters of the legalization of cannabis say those opposed to legalization are exaggerating its harmful effects. IMO this is a copout and not based on facts and reality.

A 10-year New Zealand study says smoking a joint affects the lungs to about the same degree as smoking up to five tobacco cigarettes. Part of this may be due to the practice of inhaling marijuana smoke deeply from unfiltered, hand-rolled doobies. The British medical journal The Lancet has published research claiming use of cannabis at least once can increase a person's risk by 41 per cent of suffering a psychotic illness such as schizophrenia later in life.

And on the behavioral side, a study by Melbourne University's Centre for Adolescent Health that followed 1,900 children to age 25 concluded that people who start using cannabis as teenagers are more likely than alcohol drinkers to suffer from mental illness and relationship problems, and to fail to get decent qualifications or jobs. “Cannabis really does look like the drug of choice for life’s future losers,” commented Prof. George Patton, who conducted the study.

Marijuana advocates dismiss the new research as just more of the 1950s-vintage reefer madness scare dressed up in academic respectability. But the studies say what they say: there are risks, from moderate as well as from heavy use.

http://www.capebretonpost.com/index.cfm?sid=61843&sc=151

I also think it is a misconception that if cannabis is legalized, a deadly blow will be dealt to the criminal element involved in producing and selling it. It is naive to think that if government gets involved with producing, regulating and/or selling cannabis, the viability of the black market will disappear and there will be no money to be made by criminals.

As with anything, once the government gets involved in social engineering and butts in on the free market unintended consequences usually result. Tobacco serves as the best example. Here we have a legal product which government taxes to the hilt hoping this will be a deterrent to smokers. Well guess what? Government did not anticipate or chose to ignore that exorbitant taxes would play right into the hands of a black market and cause an increase in crime.

High tax-driven prices are a form of social engineering and as such, will be enthusiastically undermined by many citizens — eve some non-smokers. This was the experience in Prohibition, and remains an element of the demand for contraband cigarettes now. Artificial prices also fly in the face of the natural laws of the market. So long as there is a demand for tobacco, it will be filled and people will pay the lowest reasonable price for it. The Black Market is, in many respects, an assertion of the basic laws of economics and human behaviour. Moreover, the morality of the high-price, high-tax strategy is reversed by its rejection. Resort to the Black Market threatens the social contract whereby the citizens give their consent to be governed. By participating in the Black Market that consent is conditionally withdrawn. For a government to continue the conditions which created the market is to invite a more general withdrawal of consent.

There is another practical issue to using high prices to control consumption. After 30 years of clear warnings about the hazards of smoking, it must be assumed that people who continue to smoke are cognizant of the risks they take. The risk and assumption of responsibility for smoking are theirs an theirs alone. Yet high tax-driven prices for cigarettes endanger other people. For example, if taxes remain high while imports diminish, robberies of stores will increase and more clerks in convenience stores will have their heads blown off in robberies. They didn’t ask to assume the risk for the smoking habits of others. If Natives continue to enjoy their tax-free status for cigarettes, the disruptions caused by the Warrior’s Society and organized criminals will continue - especially at Akwesasne and increasingly in Six Nations. A majority of Mohawks didn’t ask to have their lives disrupted by crime, and when they tried to resist they paid for it.

http://www.mackenzieinstitute.com/1994/sin-tax-failure11.htm

Cornwall Mayor Phil Poirier says many smokers are turning to the black market as a tax revolt.

"If you go buy a carton of cigarettes legally, they are approximately $70 a carton. If you buy them smuggled, they are approximately $20," he said.

"Now, a couple who each smoke a carton a week? That's a mortgage on a house."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/05/05/...-smuggling.html

IMO grow-ops would not disappear with the legalization of cannabis. Like smokers, tokers will want their fix at the lowest possible cost. If government legalizes cannabis there is no doubt that a hefty sin tax will be imposed on cannabis as it did with tobacco. In the process these high taxes have turned a large number of smokers into law breakers who, through economic necessity or principle, turn to the black market for their product. In such a scenario, why would tokers respond any differently?

Who cares ?

I cant even argue with you and you are wrong on some ,right on some.

Contrary to the soprano wanna be and his view police have not entered the wrong house and shot people,,YES THEY HAVE FOOL,,check yourselves I wont do your research because i don't care how stupid you chose to remain.

No more people need to do anything but be able to call the cops when they are being robbed of their own crop.

It to me is just so stupid an issue in the year 2007.

But I do understand why the government fears people smoking it

as Afghanistan would have no war,

darfur would have been solved,

no Rwanda ,,,,,,,

new Orleans would have gotten new dyke's instead of their money being diverted to gun money etc,etc

Its like walking around and still seeing dinosaurs walking around with us ,,,

I just feel sorry for how their ignorance makes them look and sound.

Yes jail 2 million because one may get cancer even though no cases exist yet.

Thats it we are saving them from themselves as we destroy their lives and families lives and our communities so people like oldcold can tell old war tails and think they are not fools

Edited October 7, 2007 by shavluk

[bush_cheney2004]

But I do understand why the government fears people smoking it

as Afghanistan would have no war,

darfur would have been solved,

no Rwanda ,,,,,,,

new Orleans would have gotten new dyke's instead of their money being diverted to gun money etc,etc

Its like walking around and still seeing dinosaurs walking around with us ,,,

I just feel sorry for how their ignorance makes them look and sound.

Yes jail 2 million because one may get cancer even though no cases exist yet.

Afghanistan has always had wars....dopers are not the center of the universe

Dinosaurs need love too....they would be on endangered species lists.

New Orleans never should have gotten "dykes" (sic), new or old

Jails are big business for customers who don't like to follow the rules.

[Guest coot]

Jails are big business for customers who don't like to follow the rules.

Like Bush_Cheney2011.

[Higgly]

First off pot is not victimless. Everyone who smokes pot and gets caught are become victims because they broke the law. Stupid pot smokers just can not see this though.

This discussion is about whether the law is just or not. Sayng that people got in trouble because they broke the law is irrelevant. Nothing personal.