Mixed Member Proportional representation

[Canadian Blue]

They were able to hijack riding nominations and give unpropotional representation around the province and eventually in Parliment (see ruby dalah and the countless others who 'don't belong' in Parliment and 'cheated' their way in).

So let me get this straight, Ruby Dhalla cheated here way into parliament by getting elected with a plurality of votes in her riding?

The really idiotic thing is that Ruby Dhalla herself is not an immigrant, she was born in Winnipeg.

BTW, there is already a Chinese party in Vancouver.

Have they elected anyone?

If you like MMP, you'd love the example the Bloc set as HM's opposition.

That's a very bad example for why MMP is terrible. The reason why is because under MMP the Bloc would have fewer seats alloted to them due to the fact they didn't have a large share of the popular vote. If anything we would end up seeing the Reform Party as the official opposition and the PC's as the third largest party in parliament.

[mikedavid00]

I doubt this will pass becuase people just don't understand it.

It's typical politics as usual.

While I still fully don't understand it (even after an hour of discussion on the CBC), basically the 'yes' side said that most of the people who will be appointed these position will be chosed by the politicians and are typicall chosen to be "Women and Visible Minorities".

That's all I needed to hear to not like it.

I certainly do not want some arab, 3rd world style of parliment.

We don't live in an Islamic cultural dessert regoin, we live in a North American work based economy.

It's time to stop the country from heading down the tubes.

[Canadian Blue]

What's wrong, do you have a problem with women and visible minorities?

I certainly do not want some arab, 3rd world style of parliment.

You have nothing to worry about, you don't live in the Middle East.

We don't live in an Islamic cultural dessert regoin, we live in a North American work based economy.

That sounds very delicious, however many growing economies in the world have MMP and PR.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Canadian Blue

[mikedavid00]

So let me get this straight, Ruby Dhalla cheated here way into parliament by getting elected with a plurality of votes in her riding?

Yes she did. She cheated and hijacked her way into the riding after graduating from school and did not represent the greatest proportion of her riding. Yes Brampton has lots of Sikh's, but the majority is not sikh, nor Liberal. Her and her tribe took exploited our political system.

The really idiotic thing is that Ruby Dhalla herself is not an immigrant, she was born in Winnipeg.

Doesn't matter. She's racist. One person on this very forum went to go protest outside her office. Her aid said 'maybe she would come out to speak to you if you were 'brown'' or something along those lines.

He should have went to the media with that story.

The reason why is because under MMP the Bloc would have fewer seats alloted to them due to the fact they didn't have a large share of the popular vote. If anything we would end up seeing the Reform Party as the official opposition and the PC's as the third largest party in parliament.

But we would see more immigrants.

Right now immigrants are FAR under represented in our political system. I like it like that.

I feel this will help promote rogue parties of immigrants wedging their way into our political system kind of like how it's done in the middle east, pakistan, africa, bangledesh, samolia.

[Canadian Blue]

Yes she did. She cheated and hijacked her way into the riding after graduating from school and did not represent the greatest proportion of her riding. Yes Brampton has lots of Sikh's, but the majority is not sikh, nor Liberal. Her and her tribe took exploited our political system.

She got elected with close to 50% of the vote, that's hardly hijacking a riding. If the majority of the riding is not Sikh or Liberal than the Conservatives should have won by a landslide. By the way stop referring to visibile minorities as tribes. Ever been to rural Alberta, they vote for the Conservatives in landslides but I would never call all rural whites a part of a tribe.

Doesn't matter. She's racist. One person on this very forum went to go protest outside her office. Her aid said 'maybe she would come out to speak to you if you were 'brown'' or something along those lines.

Was that ScottSA? Either way I could claim to be the Queen of England on this forum if I really wanted to.

He should have went to the media with that story.

You know why he probably didn't, because it probably wasn't true.

But we would see more immigrants.

Oddly enough the one person you pointed out isn't even technically an immigrant since she was born in Winnipeg. Unless all people from Winnipeg are now considered immigrants.

Right now immigrants are FAR under represented in our political system. I like it like that.

Subtle xenophobia rares its ugly head again. Perhaps we should make it illegal for immigrants to run for political office, or better yet ensure people like Ruby Dhalla don't get into positions of power we should put in place more stringent laws. So what exactly do you think we should do to ensure that someone like Ruby Dhalla doesn't get into parliament?

I feel this will help promote rogue parties of immigrants wedging their way into our political system kind of like how it's done in the middle east, pakistan, africa, bangledesh, samolia.

I have a feeling that the reason why their are so many Pakistani political parties in Pakistan is because they are in Pakistan, the same goes with all of those countries you named.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Canadian Blue

[mikedavid00]

That sounds very delicious, however many growing economies in the world have MMP and PR.

Yes, and I'm sure Hezbollah has taken advantage of it.

[Canadian Blue]

I can't recall Hezbollah winning seats in Germany or New Zealand, however continue to update me on the situation.

[mikedavid00]

She got elected with close to 50% of the vote, that's hardly hijacking a riding.

I'm talking at the nomination level. The very low level of it. These are private, card carying functions. This is the exploit portions of the poltiics that many poeple don't understand.

While it's within the party, it has been exploited.

[Canadian Blue]

I'm talking at the nomination level. The very low level of it. These are private, card carying functions. This is the exploit portions of the poltiics that many poeple don't understand.

I believe that the Prime Minister had in fact appointed her to run for the party in that riding. So once again your point is shown to be moot.

[kengs333]

Yes, and I'm sure Hezbollah has taken advantage of it.

This is the kind of absolute nonsense that just leaves me so dismayed about politics in Canada.

Is it just me, or does it seem like there are a couple of nutcases here who MMP to fail on the grounds that MMP will supposedly make it easier for nutcases to get elected? Irony?

[trex]

man the blanket hatred toward muslims in these forums is appalling to say the least.

[trex]

about the referendum, my understanding is it will give more power to voters who vote for the less wealthy parties, ie. other than the "big three", so if you vote green party in a liberal-dominated riding, you are not totally wasting your vote. because its not only the vote in your riding that elects the mpp, but the popular vote can get members elected from those smaller parties. these are the ones on the list.

in other words if green gets a certain percentage of the popular vote, but does not win any ridings, they will still be able to send a representative to queens park.

[mikedavid00]

man the blanket hatred toward muslims in these forums is appalling to say the least.

I don't hate all muslims.

That is something that you concluded on your own.

But it's not the truth.

[mikedavid00]

Alberta, they vote for the Conservatives in landslides but I would never call all rural whites a part of a tribe.

"A tribe, viewed historically or developmentally, consists of a social group existing before the development of, or outside of, states, though some modern theorists hold that contemporary tribes can only be understood in terms of their relationship to states."

Sikhs meet the ddfinition of a tribe.

Subtle xenophobia rares its ugly head again.

I'm not xenephobic at all. My problem is that I kow these people TOO well.

Perhaps we should make it illegal for immigrants to run for political office

I think that is fair. It really is fair IMO. That's why those laws exist in many other countries.

, or better yet ensure people like Ruby Dhalla don't get into positions of power we should put in place more stringent laws.

You have to understand how the Libearl nominations work. It goes on behind closed doors. This is where the exploitation is happening.

it's not so much corruption, but rather exploitation. The higher up in politics you get, the harder it is to do. But the lowest level matters most.

So what exactly do you think we should do to ensure that someone like Ruby Dhalla doesn't get into parliament?

Well I guess that would be up to each party. It's not a parlimentary issue but rather a party issue. You would not be able to vote unless you signed a form saying that you did not know the person you are voting for. You could also have proportional representation to measure an imbalance of religion/minority status.

For instance, if Brampton is 15% Sikh. And at the candidate is Sikh. That local riding cannot have an audience of 80% Sikh's voting in a Sikh contestant over the other 7 people of other backgrounds. This is not illegal, it's not even corruption, it's exploitation of an honorable system that was designed long, long ago in good faith.

People were never meant to vote in their friends or down religious and ethnic lines. But this what happens in the 3rd world. This is how it's done over there. You have 100 runners and you get as many friends as you can from your mosque to elect you in. That is the fundamental thing that is wrong with those countries.

They come here and repeat the same thing.

The Sikh temple, the Mosque, they are more than just religious churches, they are political power bases. It's how it's done back home. But I'll never convince you of that.

[guyser]

People were never meant to vote in their friends or down religious and ethnic lines. But this what happens in the 3rd world.

mikeD , politics has always been run that way. Maybe you didnt notice , since you know, not marking that X and all, but to others, SOP !

[jennie]

Mixed Member Proportional representation ... Why not give it a try!

VOTING

It would be the old familiar, elect your choice of local MPP ... and then you would mark an extra X for a party of your choice.

So for example if you like your local rep, but not the party leader or policies, etc, you would be able to cast a vote for your local MPP as usual, and a vote for a different party too, to make your point.

IN THE LEGISLATURE

If elected, your local MPP is in the legislature, as usual.

The governing party is determined, as usual, on the number of successful riding MPPs.

Our newfangled 'party' votes (whoopee!) would be the popular vote for the party.

THAT vote would determine the percentage of seats for each party in the House.

That is the change, so ...

1) A party with 3% is eligible to potentially get a seat,

2) and a party with only 40% of the popular vote will form a government, but will no longer get a majority of the seats and votes in the House without collaboration.

3) the party-nominated candidates will fill out the seats to the proper percentages to make up the popular votes for parties.

***********

I think some or most of us want to know that our political parties are focused more on our common survival priorities, through collaboration and agreement,

and less on wasting OUR time on public tv, on OUR dime, with moronic political posturing, bullying and grandstanding.

Time for them to buck up and publicly reflect the standards and values of our public classrooms: The students are noticing political leadership machines produce paid performers of glib and sharp repartee, but whether we get good governance out of it is a crapshoot every time ... and you always lose at gambling, right?

Democratic competition has its place in selection of government and opposition representatives OF THE PEOPLE, but governance is different than preening and campaigning, alternately scripted and glib (or in Harper's case, the glib has to be scripted for him too, I think).

Governance is not about first planning to do the 5 things you promised, to prove you are trustworthy.

Governance is life and death for someone somewhere everyday, whether natural disaster, economic devastation, patient access to treatment, community access to emergency services, or death on winter highways, oh and remembering all the 80, 90 and 100th birthdays in Ontario.

[Michael Hardner]

Jennie, I don't follow your post. You're for MMP ? Why do you think that there will be less political posturing with MMP ? There will definitely be more politics, in the form of constant political deal making, which takes time away from governing.

[mikedavid00]

So for example if you like your local rep, but not the party leader or policies, etc, you would be able to cast a vote for your local MPP as usual, and a vote for a different party too, to make your point.

And that is where the exploitation can happen.

The legislature would be filled with immigrants.

Now I know what jbg was talking about.

No thanks. no to proportional representation.

[mikedavid00]

Jennie, I don't follow your post. You're for MMP ? Why do you think that there will be less political posturing with MMP ? There will definitely be more politics, in the form of constant political deal making, which takes time away from governing.

WOW!

Look at what this guy posted on another forum!!

"Take New Zealand, for example. It used to have an electoral system just like ours, with two parties (Labour and National) trading places at the top and a third party occasionally winning a seat or two.

But in 1993 New Zealand switched to a new system – mixed-member proportional, or MMP, which is the same system on the referendum ballot in Ontario.

Now New Zealand has eight different parties in its parliament, including a Maori party, one that opposes more Asian immigration, and another that wants a hard cap on government spending.

New Zealand is a relatively homogenous place compared to Ontario. Here, if MMP were adopted as our electoral system, one could easily envisage the emergence of parties based on ethnicity or on geography..."

---

JUST AS I SUSPECTED!!

Seriously guys, we're doing it to ourselves! We are willingly, and litterally destroying our own country. Why are we doing this to ourselves.

Edited October 3, 2007 by mikedavid00

[Canadian Blue]

I think that is fair. It really is fair IMO. That's why those laws exist in many other countries.

So an immigrant can fight and die for this country yet never have the chance to run for political office.

Now New Zealand has eight different parties in its parliament, including a Maori party, one that opposes more Asian immigration, and another that wants a hard cap on government spending.

What's the issue, you're against immigration. As well the Maori's are not immigrants.

Seriously guys, we're doing it to ourselves! We are willingly, and litterally destroying our own country. Why are we doing this to ourselves.

New Zealand still has a high quality of life, and I believe its economy is doing well too. If you want to show how New Zealand is now third world by all means go ahead.

[jennie]

And that is where the exploitation can happen.

The legislature would be filled with immigrants.

Now I know what jbg was talking about.

No thanks. no to proportional representation.

mikedavid, you embarrass me with your views.

I do not wish to be associated with your beliefs or your behaviour, but also I will no longer try to counter your racist opinions.

[Michael Hardner]

WOW!

Look at what this guy posted on another forum!!

"Take New Zealand, for example. It used to have an electoral system just like ours, with two parties (Labour and National) trading places at the top and a third party occasionally winning a seat or two.

But in 1993 New Zealand switched to a new system – mixed-member proportional, or MMP, which is the same system on the referendum ballot in Ontario.

Now New Zealand has eight different parties in its parliament, including a Maori party, one that opposes more Asian immigration, and another that wants a hard cap on government spending.

New Zealand is a relatively homogenous place compared to Ontario. Here, if MMP were adopted as our electoral system, one could easily envisage the emergence of parties based on ethnicity or on geography..."

MikeDavid - I don't think you meant to say that I posted that, did you ? Because I don't think I did. I'm not familiar with New Zealand's situation.

[mikedavid00]

MikeDavid - I don't think you meant to say that I posted that, did you ? Because I don't think I did. I'm not familiar with New Zealand's situation.

No I mean 'a guy posted'.

But yeah that's proof right there. Now I heard on CBC radio that they will continue to push minorities and women through this and how it's great that certain immigrants have a voice.

MMPP - Mixes ethnicities and religion in with our politics which is a seriously mistake.

This may work easily in other homogeneous countries (which are most of them), but not in a rogue state like Canada. That would be a true nightmare.

[mikedavid00]

So an immigrant can fight and die for this country yet never have the chance to run for political office.

What's the issue, you're against immigration. As well the Maori's are not immigrants.

New Zealand still has a high quality of life, and I believe its economy is doing well too. If you want to show how New Zealand is now third world by all means go ahead.

That's just it thought.

Immigrants DON'T fight and die for this country!! And no, like MANY other countries, they cannot hold office unless they were born here.

"New Zealand still has a high quality of life, and I believe its economy is doing well too. If you want to show how New Zealand is now third world by all means go ahead."

The argument is that it WORKS for New Zealand becuase they have a normal homagenous country (like most other countries).

Canada is close to a 3rd world country split down ethnic and religious lines. We've lost or homogeny due to mass, mass, mass immigration and we are now split into groups who all want to get their hands into the public cookie jar.

The immigrants have not sucseeded thus far.

They came close, they have been thrown some bones, but have truly not succseeded yet.

When they finally penetrate into our Parliment system with religoius/ethnic lines, we are in trouble.

When they get their own schools funded with public money, we are in trouble.

The immigrants have not officially established a true power base in Canada yet.

The RCMP uniform is small fries. it's a sign, but not a true power base.

But wow the writing is on the wall. It could happen soon. If we get MMP, ethnic school fudning, then we have officially given them their first true establishment of a new power structure.

Edited October 3, 2007 by mikedavid00

[fellowtraveller]

Immigrants DON'T fight and die for this country!! And no, like MANY other countries, they cannot hold office unless they were born here.

What? Somebody better tell Arnie about this ASAP. I thought that the only office denied somebody born outside the USa was the Presidency?