John Tory breaks his promise

[Higgly]

John Tory now says that he is no longer backing faith-based schools. The first politican to break a promise before he got elected!

Edited October 1, 2007 by Higgly

[Leafless]

John Tory now says that he is no longer backing faith-based schools. The first politican to break a promise before he got elected!

If that is the case, it is not his fault the Ontarians backing Mc.Guinty are nuts.

And why did you not cite the proof of your statement?

[Topaz]

Anyone who ran for leadership of the PC's would never have a chance at the election !!! Harris has done more damage to that party as Mulroney did to the Feds. The only way for them to get back on top is to get some other party member to run as a PC!!!

[mikedavid00]

If that is the case, it is not his fault the Ontarians backing Mc.Guinty are nuts.

And why did you not cite the proof of your statement?

Yeah it's well known. Tory's party began to turn against him and he found out he was 15 points down in his OWN riding. He then made an announcment that he wasn't backing down from ethnic schooling, but he would hold it to a free vote and still table the motion (meaning that it wouldn't pass).

A pundit on the CBC said that voters simply won't even take that chance and won't touch a politician that is even going to entertain this issue.

Thus Dalton is winning.

Now there is backlash that Tory ruined the campaign becuase of this issue and the real issues at hand have not been discussed. People are angry at Tory.

I've never seen such a poor run campaign. Tory never even discussed how he was goign to pay for all his promises.

I'll say this now.. and it's hard to say.. but Tory is probably the worst politician i've ever known in my life. Dion can atleast pick a hot topic, but Tory.. wow. the last thing Ontario needs is to throw us into some Islamic debate and take away our Catholic schools. I mean.. that was the LEAST most important things to Ontario. That's the last thing we needed just when things were calming down here.

There are SO many other laws and rules to pick on when it comes to 'fairness'. Why he did this? WHo knows. Those group of 20 religious lobbiests were worth it eh Tory?

[mikedavid00]

Anyone who ran for leadership of the PC's would never have a chance at the election !!! Harris has done more damage to that party as Mulroney did to the Feds. The only way for them to get back on top is to get some other party member to run as a PC!!!

Yeah that was a sheer disaster.

I feel Tory could have won. He certainly got most of the media attention. Dalton barely got any.

I think people like Howard Hampton the most. He's the people champ for sure. And it's hard to argue anyting he says (unlike Layton). He very straight forward in his answers (unlike Dalton and Tory).

I guess I like Hampton the most becuase he understands that real Ontario families can barely make ends meet and the quality of life for Ontarians is going down the sink hole. He truly understands that.

Too bad he doesn't really understand the solution to these problems.

[margrace]

WhenTory first appeared I thought he resembled or acted much like Bill Davis, I thought he might have a chance at being elected, but like recent politicians, like Harris, he proved he was too arrogant to listen to the people. Whatever his reasons for the school idea he certainly did not have his finger on the pulse of the people.

I believe that the main need of Ontarions is better health care and good education. The proposed religion based schools would have not only hurt our public education system but lowered the standards of education in general.

Elected officials that have an obvious agenda of their own and do not listen to the people are their own worst enemy.

Federally we seem to have the same problem, a man with his own agenda and to heck with what Canadians want. Mr. Bush is of the same ilk and believes he knows what is best, apparently what is best is what he wants. Mr. Brown in England seems to have heard the message, lets hope he follows through.

[scribblet]

I agree that this issue is bleeding votes away from Tory, but there are far more important issues to me as an Ontarion. However, I didn't think he's broken any promise, all he's done is said there will be a free vote on the issue.

Not to mention that this is still the campaign, not post election and why shouldn't a politician be responsive to the voter's wishes?

How many threads are there on this issue anyway?

[M.Dancer]

John Tory now says that he is no longer backing faith-based schools. The first politican to break a promise before he got elected!

Wrong Much?

He says he will vote for faith based schools is a free vote.

[Topaz]

Wrong Much?

He says he will vote for faith based schools is a free vote.

What he said is so laughable. He's saying you vote for me and I'll have a free vote knowing that most people even some in his party would vote no but at least Tory would get the vote to be Premier and that's all he cares about and not the school vote because he knows it wouldn't pass!!

[scribblet]

What he said is so laughable. He's saying you vote for me and I'll have a free vote knowing that most people even some in his party would vote no but at least Tory would get the vote to be Premier and that's all he cares about and not the school vote because he knows it wouldn't pass!!

Good for him.

[mikedavid00]

Wrong Much?

He says he will vote for faith based schools is a free vote.

And Ontarians don't want to touch even the idea that it will be brought up again.

Immigrants aren't for it, the Chinese community.. err... Chinese people in Canada... don't support this..

I think everyones problem with Tory is that he's trying to govern like God and for his own purposes. Not for the people who live here.

[Rue]

John Tory now says that he is no longer backing faith-based schools. The first politican to break a promise before he got elected!

Bull. He did not say he no longer backs faith based schools. In fact just today he again repeated he backs faith based schools.

What he said was he would allow a free vote on it.

You are as usual wrong.

[Rue]

What he said is so laughable. He's saying you vote for me and I'll have a free vote knowing that most people even some in his party would vote no but at least Tory would get the vote to be Premier and that's all he cares about and not the school vote because he knows it wouldn't pass!!

Why is it laughable? Why is letting people have a free vote laughable? The man has stood up for an issue based on his honest belief as to what is right and wrong. He is then faced with people like you that laugh a lot and find someone who has a conviction and is willing to state it, funny.

Ahahahah. He has said he would have a free vote because he knows his view is unpopular. Ahahahah. He has not changed his view. AHahahahah. He has called peoples' bluff and said-look here is where I stand, you hate it-fine don't vote for it then - but stop turning me into a l issue politician-let's talk about other issues. Ahahaahah.

This province is run by a pathological liar. Ahahahahah.

That pathological liar is going toget re-elected because people like you are going ahahahahah.

[daniel]

My impression of JohnTory is that he's a guy looking for a job - any job. First he tried to the Toronto Mayoralty job. Then the Ontario PC Leadership. If he loses the bid for Premiereship - or even his own riding, watch him go Federal.

Wasn't he CEO of Rogers Cable - the firm that negative billed-Canadians?

[M.Dancer]

Wasn't he CEO of Rogers Cable - the firm that negative billed-Canadians?

Yes. Had publishers been able to manage that scam, canadian magazines would be flourishing. You get home to find that copies of Saturday Night, Equinox, Harrowsmith and Coupe de Puce waiting for you.....the later the bills

[Leafless]

the last thing Ontario needs is to throw us into some Islamic debate and take away our Catholic schools. I mean.. that was the LEAST most important things to Ontario. That's the last thing we needed just when things were calming down here.

There are SO many other laws and rules to pick on when it comes to 'fairness'. Why he did this? WHo knows. Those group of 20 religious lobbiests were worth it eh Tory?

Why are you so against official multiculturalism? Its here its real and personally I am against it but until the Charter is scrapped we have to accept it.

French don't care about religion but use Catholic schools to promote their French language.

Ontario has four constitutionally protected, publicly funded school systems: English Public, English Catholic, French Public and French Catholic. The schools in these four systems serve 95% of Ontario students.

So why under our current system would it hurt to fund the other 5% of faith based schools?

This is outright discrimination against the 5% of other faiths.

Do you realize that if you do not fund other faiths they could or will operate their own private faith based schools with a curriculum that might not not be compatible with Ontario's curriculum and then you are looking for real problems.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Leafless

[jennie]

Why are you so against official multiculturalism? Its here its real and personally I am against it but until the Charter is scrapped we have to accept it.

French don't care about religion but use Catholic schools to promote their French language.

Ontario has four constitutionally protected, publicly funded school systems: English Public, English Catholic, French Public and French Catholic. The schools in these four systems serve 95% of Ontario students.

So why under our current system would it hurt to fund the other 5% of faith based schools?

This is outright discrimination against the 5% of other faiths.

Do you realize that if you do not fund other faiths they could or will operate their own private faith based schools with a curriculum that might not not be compatible with Ontario's curriculum and then you are looking for real problems.

They already do operate privately. That is the point.

[Leafless]

They already do operate privately. That is the point.

Excellent, jennie and why shouldn't they if they are not part of the system and discriminated upon?

But the point is if the province supported faith based schools they would have to teach only what is in the Ontario school curriculum.

Iam getting a little tired of this secularism bit.

We have it with government, separation of church and state, but in schools only Catholics are funded and other religions are ignored.

But the point is who is going to teach the religious aspect of life, faith and morals which many people need to survive.

You seem and others seem to think it is the role of the parents when we know many parents are irresponsible themselves and some don't even bother to feed their own children properly much less teach their children to believe in a faith and have morals that help to achieve a higher level of common sense and understanding knowing right from wrong.

The last thing I want to see is more secular arrogant pagan children running around with absolutely no clue what life is about outside of the popular cultural fantasies, music, drugs and sex that lead to a senseless immoral lifestyle.

And some parents wonder why there children are out of control and they cannot do nothing with them.

[Higgly]

Separation of church and state. What a concept! I agree about the unfairness of funding Catholic schools, though. It has to stop.

[Leafless]

Separation of church and state. What a concept! I agree about the unfairness of funding Catholic schools, though. It has to stop.

The Charter is the root cause of this problem and it should be scrapped along with official multiculturalism and other aspects that are dividing Canadians and the country.

I still believe though a system should be incorporated to lead children down the right path of life and what other system outside of religion can do this in the proper way, as it is part of the nature of man to believe in something that really does not have to be explained to provide us with an inner faith.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Leafless

[Higgly]

I still believe though a system should be incorporated to lead children down the right path of life and what other system outside of religion can do this in the proper way, as it is part of the nature of man to believe in something that really does not have to be explained to provide us with an inner faith.

Well first of all, there is always democracy. And capitalism. I mean capitalism with shareholder rights, informed consumers, and watchful governments. In other words, democratic capitalism. A system you can be taught and that can be made to conform to its own rules. And if you are getting mystical, how about physics, its mother mathematics and its children, chemistry and biology? A system that can tell us what we in turn must conform to.

If God were to speak to us all directly, that would be great. But when you have a bunch of yokels in robes, well, that's where I'm sort of losing focus...

If there is a God, then God has given us everything we need and it is up to us. God has moved on to other things and we need to wish God the very best of luck.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Higgly

[trex]

The Charter is the root cause of this problem and it should be scrapped along with official multiculturalism and other aspects that are dividing Canadians and the country.

i disagree with this. the alternative is a monoculture... i guess there'd be no more problems anymore then. its conform or else.

the question then too is, which monoculture. i think the original idea of multiculturalism is to have us learn to appreciate others cultures, the differences, with the expectation of becoming tolerant. not, isolationist and intolerant. and not conformist. its good to have differences, within certain broad rules of conduct. thats the vision of canada

I still believe though a system should be incorporated to lead children down the right path of life and what other system outside of religion can do this in the proper way, as it is part of the nature of man to believe in something that really does not have to be explained to provide us with an inner faith.

not a bad idea, except for the problem of definition of the "right path of life". and you mentioned it "really does not have to be explained"... if not, then why the need to teach it?

i myself DO believe that it has to be explained. yes, we should teach certain ideas about morality to our children. its not to be taken for granted. what we see today, some of these social problems are resulting from generations raised in so-called godlessness, with nothing to replace it. but rather than teach to a monoculture, ie. with the christians in one school, the hindus in another, why not teach human spirituality in public schools, discussing ideas from many different religious beliefs... that would be an expression of multiculturalism. then we can eliminate the separate school board entirely

[Higgly]

Good idea. Why don't we call it Civics and Social Science?

[daniel]

...the alternative is a monoculture... i guess there'd be no more problems anymore then. its conform or else.

the question then too is, which monoculture. ...

We tried that already. The result is that we are now starting to pay out compensation to the aboriginals who were forced into residential schools.

[Leafless]

We tried that already. The result is that we are now starting to pay out compensation to the aboriginals who were forced into residential schools.

The reason they were forced into residential schools is because they were savages.

But it didn't do any good as they refused to learn and were not backed by their elders.

I mean if you were walking on Crown land or thinking of building a little cabin and ended up with an arrow in the back because the Indians thought it was their land dramatizes this savagery.

And to think this type of savagery still exist to-day but with guns, high powered cars, blockades etc.

Aboriginals really don't have any part in this discussion and it is obvious they still adhere to their old ways and are not part of modern society.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Leafless