OPP finally act

[Wild Bill]

Perception to a schizophrenic doesn't make reality - especially for people who know which of them is the schizophrenic. When people are put under stress, their psychosis also creates a similar detachment from reality and they become highly sensitized to paranoid delusions. But you're not under stress now are you, Bill? So you must be perpetuating a false argument for a specific purpose - perhaps to profit from the fear??????

Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem...

It's futile for each of us to keep going at this. The point is impossible to prove in advance by nitpicking forum arguments.

History will show who is correct. Some bands will be more successful than others. My arguments pertain more to Six Nations and the situation here in Southern Ontario.

If I live long enough, I will see if you are right or wrong. Your predictions frankly sound like "rah rah jingoism" to me but as I say, the proof will be in the pudding.

You might not believe this but I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong! I have no ill will towards natives or wish long term estrangement between the peoples.

It's just that the real world evidence to me does not support your views. I see and experience a huge real problem and you seem to be saying "No it's not! Everything will work out wonderfully! Minor details only!"

[raz395]

You still don't get it. You would make a poor politician. Perception is the reality and that's how people are going to act. The ordinary non-native doesn't know about 10 years notice. He just sees cottagers kicked out. He knows many of them may have invested sums of money into their cottages. He hears nothing about any compensation.

You are not off the hook on that, Bill: It is your responsibility as a citizen in a democracy to inform yourself of the facts, and NOT to promote or use stereotypes to make blanket judgments about people. Your ignorance is not an excuse for aggressive opinions that are damaging to people. That is not acceptable in our society. EVERYONE is responsible for verifying their facts and for avoiding misjudging people.

It doesn't matter if the natives are legally within their rights! The people who leased the land for the cottages never imagined that someday the same native band that welcomed them at the beginning would have such a change of heart and would evict them someday!

Rest assured they tell all their friends. No one wants to lease cottages from that band again.

The point is the Band is not interested in leasing the land any longer. What the government may have led people to believe may be different than the truth the Band told the government.

but it's common knowledge that it's happened too often before

And the point is you are promoting negative stereotypes with no evidence. You are a classic victim of systemic propaganda: You believe that crap. Grow up kid.

Your argument seems to be that the actions of Six Nations will make it difficult for them to "do business" with the non-native community. It is really a bit of a non-argument, isn't it, since they are trying to get non-native businesses off their land.

It is also already proven wrong, of course, by the number of developers who do choose to do business with them, and the local residents who appreciate their help in stopping the toxic dumping.

And the Ontario Minister of Aboriginal Affairs says:

"This isn't just about a constitutional and moral duty," Bryant said. "It's in our overall economic self-interest to better that relationship."

Edited December 1, 2007 by raz395

[Posit]

Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem...

It's futile for each of us to keep going at this. The point is impossible to prove in advance by nitpicking forum arguments.

History will show who is correct. Some bands will be more successful than others. My arguments pertain more to Six Nations and the situation here in Southern Ontario.

If I live long enough, I will see if you are right or wrong. Your predictions frankly sound like "rah rah jingoism" to me but as I say, the proof will be in the pudding.

You might not believe this but I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong! I have no ill will towards natives or wish long term estrangement between the peoples.

It's just that the real world evidence to me does not support your views. I see and experience a huge real problem and you seem to be saying "No it's not! Everything will work out wonderfully! Minor details only!"

Since you are coming from a xenophobic perception, you should realize that your "real world" evidence is tainted. I am close to some very personal friends who are Mohawk both from Six Nations, Wahta, Akwesasne and Tyendinaga, as well as numerous colleagues from Anishanabec and Algonquin Nations. None of them or the territories they come from exhibit any of the poor judgment you account them for. Like all societies there are those who struggle with social diseases, but none of them deserve the sweeping generalizations you identify with. On the contrary, if there are problems in a community they tend to be instigated by the imposition of our colonial band system and contradictory societal norms we expect.

[Wild Bill]

Since you are coming from a xenophobic perception, you should realize that your "real world" evidence is tainted. I am close to some very personal friends who are Mohawk both from Six Nations, Wahta, Akwesasne and Tyendinaga, as well as numerous colleagues from Anishanabec and Algonquin Nations. None of them or the territories they come from exhibit any of the poor judgment you account them for. Like all societies there are those who struggle with social diseases, but none of them deserve the sweeping generalizations you identify with. On the contrary, if there are problems in a community they tend to be instigated by the imposition of our colonial band system and contradictory societal norms we expect.

These friends of yours, did you meet them while you were in the army?

[Posit]

These friends of yours, did you meet them while you were in the army?

Are you trolling too?

Edited December 2, 2007 by Posit

[AngusThermopyle]

Are you trolling too?

I think the question should be "are you ducking the question again?".

The only true xenophobia I've seen around here emanates from you Posit. Like I said before, you're busted buddy, just give it up okay.

And the point is you are promoting negative stereotypes with no evidence. You are a classic victim of systemic propaganda: You believe that crap. Grow up kid.

Good advice raz, you should take it.

Edited December 2, 2007 by AngusThermopyle

[Posit]

I think the question should be "are you ducking the question again?".

The only true xenophobia I've seen around here emanates from you Posit. Like I said before, you're busted buddy, just give it up okay.

Good advice raz, you should take it.

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Troll

[kengs333]

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Troll

One of my first posts here, I believe, I accused someone who specifically stated that they were here to cause trouble as being a troll, and I was warned that it was a personal attack... Am I to suppose that this has now changed? This is about the fourth or fifth time that I've seen Posit make such an accusation in the last last few days.

[Charles Anthony]

This thread had degraded into personal attacks devoid of any attempt to discuss politics just like this other thread did. This behavior must stop.

Let me remind all of the members of one thing: do not disclose personal information about other members and do not even attempt to indirectly hint at personal information. Publishing personal information about other members is a serious breach of the forum rules. A handful of the posts in this thread were completely deleted because of such violations.

If somebody publishes private information about any other member, you should use the Report button associated with the post to let the moderators know and let the moderators handle it. Do not play policeman and do not feed any flames.

[Wild Bill]

Sonuva gun! I just discovered that this board too has an "ignore" list in the control panel!

Oh blessed silence! I'm one of those cursed by being an extremely fast reader. I say cursed because when I even glance over a "wacko" post I get the sense of it before I can skip over it.

Now it will be like having a big dog to keep all the religious and energy broker solicitors away from my door!

[jbg]

Now it will be like having a big dog to keep all the religious and energy broker solicitors away from my door!

As far as big dogs go, Canada has developed two of the most vicious breeds of big dogs:

1. Labrador Retrievers; and
   
2. Newfoundlands
   

Despite Canada's reputation as a peaceful, gentle country the two breeds it has developed are among the world's fiercest and most dangerous, attacking with a swinging tail as well as their jaws, which are always holding a tennis ball when not ripping someone to shreds.

[Wild Bill]

As far as big dogs go, Canada has developed two of the most vicious breeds of big dogs:

1. Labrador Retrievers; and
   
2. Newfoundlands
   

Despite Canada's reputation as a peaceful, gentle country the two breeds it has developed are among the world's fiercest and most dangerous, attacking with a swinging tail as well as their jaws, which are always holding a tennis ball when not ripping someone to shreds.

My dog is a Lab/Golden Retriever cross. Black fur with Golden fur and body.

She's 11 months old. 80 lbs and still growing. She shows no signs at all of being dangerous, except for being clumsy while she tries to slobber on everyone and everything in sight.

The only thing her jaws like to rip are sofas, tvs, cushions, napkins, garbage bags, refrigerators and a multitude of socks...

Edited December 5, 2007 by Wild Bill

[jbg]

My dog is a Lab/Golden Retriever cross. Black fur with Golden fur and body.

She's 11 months old. 80 lbs and still growing. She shows no signs at all of being dangerous, except for being clumsy while she tries to slobber on everyone and everything in sight.

The only thing her jaws like to rip are sofas, tvs, cushions, napkins, garbage bags, refrigerators and a multitude of socks...

Does its tail hit people?

[Wild Bill]

Does its tail hit people?

Actually, yes!

She truly doesn't seem to understand that she's big! In her mind she's still a puppy, I guess. She loves to sprawl across your lap while you watch tv.

My wife and daughters had already named her Maddy (Madeline) before they got her home. I might have preferred "Big Rhonda", from "That 70's Show".

I'm not sure what she'd do if she confronted a burglar. Slobber him to death, I suspect!

[AngusThermopyle]

I miss my girls, a lot. I had two Pitties back in Ontario. Both were females and pretty much the biggest babies you could ever meet.

They should never have banned those dogs. Jail the bad owners instead. I've owned many dogs in my life, some exceptional breeds actually. When I got my girls (both were rescue dogs) I realized what an exceptional breed the Pit Bull actually is.

[Wild Bill]

I miss my girls, a lot. I had two Pitties back in Ontario. Both were females and pretty much the biggest babies you could ever meet.

They should never have banned those dogs. Jail the bad owners instead. I've owned many dogs in my life, some exceptional breeds actually. When I got my girls (both were rescue dogs) I realized what an exceptional breed the Pit Bull actually is.

Yeah, I'm with you! The pols ban breeds because it's a no-brainer. Dealing with bad owners takes more effort and money. Breed bans are simplistic and anybody with hair in their ears can recognize a pit bull so it looks to the unwashed like the pols actually did something.

Being Canadians, they never think about how effective this approach will work or even audit dog problems after a few years of the ban. They just go to sleep in quiet confidence that the pols have looked after us. Years later, the bad owners will have picked another breed of choice and then banning that breed will look like a new issue.

Actually, it's already happened. There have been reports of "'roid bag" "tough guys" training large breeds like Great Danes to be vicious...

[AngusThermopyle]

Actually, it's already happened. There have been reports of "'roid bag" "tough guys" training large breeds like Great Danes to be vicious...

No! That is truly dispicable, Danes are such a great familly dog (if you can afford to feed them that is). I cant understand why people would want to ruin one of the truly pure animals on this planet.

The dogs shouldn't be banned, the dammned stupid plugs who pervert and destroy these animals should be ... punished suitably.

[jbg]

No! That is truly dispicable, Danes are such a great familly dog (if you can afford to feed them that is). I cant understand why people would want to ruin one of the truly pure animals on this planet.

Great Danes are every bit as vicious as Labrador Retrievers and Newfoundlands. Heartless, untameable attack dogs.

[AngusThermopyle]

Great Danes are every bit as vicious as Labrador Retrievers and Newfoundlands. Heartless, untameable attack dogs.

I gotta give you that.

True monsters in every sense of the word. Attacking you with wagging tails and huge smiles, paws outstretched in a viscious manner. Covering your face with toxic dog tounge slime at every opportunity.

Man! You dont know how much I miss my girls!

[jbg]

True monsters in every sense of the word. Attacking you with wagging tails and huge smiles, paws outstretched in a viscious manner. Covering your face with toxic dog tounge slime at every opportunity.

Man! You dont know how much I miss my girls!

All kidding aside, I remember well my first encounter with a Great Dane.

At Cornell University, by the will of one of the original endowers, dogs are allowed to run free on campus. One morning, I stepped onto the elevator at Mary Donlon Hall (the dormitory) and there was an unaccompanied Great Dane. I said to myself "OK, maybe I wasn't meant to live to graduation" as I took my life into my hands by getting on the elevator. Surprisingly, it seemed gentle and wanted to be petted. Probably quite rare for this ferocious breed to be this gentle.

[AngusThermopyle]

Danes can be ferocious, true, but just about any dog can be. I believe its all in the way they are raised, hence the reasoning behind my desire for stiff penalties for those who corrupt an animal. I view it as being similar to irresponsible use of a weapon. Did you know that when attacked by a dog humans will instinctively freeze for a second?

I love dogs, it makes me feel so angry when I hear about people abusing them. Dragging them behind vehicles, using them for dog fighting, that sort of thing. We really should jack up the penalties for such behaviour. Right now they just get a slap on the wrist.

Edited to add: Actually all the Danes I've ever known have been very gentle and loving dogs, granted I've only ever known about 5 or 6 of them. Still, they've all been consistently gentle.

Edited December 8, 2007 by AngusThermopyle

[jbg]

They should never have banned those dogs. Jail the bad owners instead. I've owned many dogs in my life, some exceptional breeds actually. When I got my girls (both were rescue dogs) I realized what an exceptional breed the Pit Bull actually is.

Governments love to pass laws because that's easy and cheap. In law enforcement generally, everyone knows that what's needed aren't better laws but more money, and lots of it, for more police, courts, judges and prisons. It's far easier to pass a totally symbolic law than take real action.

Edited to add: Actually all the Danes I've ever known have been very gentle and loving dogs, granted I've only ever known about 5 or 6 of them. Still, they've all been consistently gentle.

Ever been hit by their tails?

[AngusThermopyle]

Ever been hit by their tails?

I sure have, and when you yell out and they just kinda look at you with a big smile and a goofy look.

I used to live with a Bull Mastiff (Brutus), wait till one of those hits you with their tail or jumps up into your lap, all 160 lbs of them, and he was sort of small for a Mastiff.

I love dogs, if I were inclined towards religion I would honestly state that they are gods most pure creatures. They dont know deception or schemes, they just return the love you give them, about tenfold.