Dion's bringing up Khadr.

[jennie]

I bet you can't find a credible source to back that up.

Yes ... but I am posting it in the"Occupations" thread so as not to derail this one.

[M.Dancer]

Two things I could really care less about; Dion and Khadr. Honestly if neither ever set foot in Canada again I wouldn't loose sleep. But to tell the truth, if Dion remained in Canada, who cares....but who wants another terrorist killer?

Now back to the thread title

Bringing up Khadr

Doesn't that sound like it should follow Mosque on the Prairie for a full hour of fun filled comedy?

"Khadr what have you been doing boy!"

"Gee whiz Iman, I'm just making a bomb to attack the Zionist monkeys and their pig faced crusader allied...."

Oh you rascal, the blue wire must always attach to the timing delay circuit while the detonator must have a ..........."

Fun for the whole family

[capricorn]

We live here in Canada where we elect people to run our country. For the most part the majority rules. So now take a look at those who think your way, and the large number that think our way. Yes it is a good thing that we the majority do rule the country at least. That way those who think like you, will be less likely to harm our way of life

This is the most compelling reason to vote NO for MMP in the upcoming Ontario referendum.

Edited September 21, 2007 by capricorn

[jennie]

This is the most compelling reason to vote NO for MMP in the upcoming Ontario referendum.

The reason to vote "yes" is to make sure that a party with a minority of public support can never again have a majority government.

Currently 40% of the vote can get a party 70% of the seats and 100% of the power, with 60% of the people having no say for 4 years.

Whichever party is in this position, there is a majority of people unsatisfied.

[M.Dancer]

The reason to vote "yes" is to make sure that a party with a minority of public support can never again have a majority government.

Currently 40% of the vote can get a party 70% of the seats and 100% of the power, with 60% of the people having no say for 4 years.

Whichever party is in this position, there is a majority of people unsatisfied.

yeah that's not likely to change even if MMR gets through. It's like this....one party gets the largest percentage of seats with 40% of the vote and wins a majority of traditional first past the post seats....it stands to reason they will also get 40% of the PR vote....if the next party gets 30%.....and also way less seats because of first past the post....they will only get 30% of the PR seats......the rest will be the wingnut parties .......Whoop Whoop the spirograph greens have 2 seats....now the disaffected unwashed will have a voice......later, maybe, the will get a brain.

Does anyone know if you have to be a province wide party to be eligible for the PR vote? Do you even have to run as a traditional party, with someone challenging a riding? Because if it ever get in I want to start my own non campaigning party. I will call it the I just want a fat paycheque party....I will lobby those who think the PR system is flawed and go for their vote. I will collect a PR member paycheque and do absolutely dick all.

[lenwick]

I cant believe some of the posts Khadr was only 15 yrs old a child.We dont treat children's of 15 like adults in Canada.Blame his father hes was the bad guy

[old_bold&cold]

He was a 15 year old kid that was trained as a terrorist and was caught during a fire fight with US soldiers. He had killed one and was just as dangerous as any person of any age. He has been raised to be an extremist muslim and those beliefs do not mix well with in Canada. Since the USA took him from Afghanistan, that is exactly where he should be returned to. He probably will get a quick trial and be hung as it should be.

[jennie]

He was a 15 year old kid that was trained as a terrorist and was caught during a fire fight with US soldiers. He had killed one and was just as dangerous as any person of any age. He has been raised to be an extremist muslim and those beliefs do not mix well with in Canada. Since the USA took him from Afghanistan, that is exactly where he should be returned to. He probably will get a quick trial and be hung as it should be.

And the law be damned?

I agree with lenwick. Khadr is the kind of kid we are trying to rescue from Sudan and other places.

[guyser]

I agree with lenwick. Khadr is the kind of kid we are trying to rescue from Sudan and other places.

In this case?

I agree rescuing him is paramount ,and then turning him over to fisherman who can use him as chum bait thus saving a few bucks.

[ScottSA]

I cant believe some of the posts Khadr was only 15 yrs old a child.We dont treat children's of 15 like adults in Canada.Blame his father hes was the bad guy

Historically there have often been children on the battlefield, and I'm not just talking about go-nowhere African Democratic People's Republic of Socialist Headhunter armies; I'm talking about western armies of the last 500 years, and long before that, when a "man" was judged to be someone who could do the duties of a man in combat. 15 may be considered a "youth" in the contemporary west, but nowhere else in the world is he...even today in Canada any farm family has 15 year old "kids" doing the work of men. Just because the slackjawed 15 year olds you see hanging out at 7 11 angsting over hangnails don't seem to have the mental resources to effectively pick their collective noses, doesn't mean they wouldn't be dangerous with a weapon, or that they lack the wherewithall to shoot one with a full appreciation of the implications.

As someone said earlier, what magnificent conceit some have that all this "kid" requires is the teacher to ask him sotto voce to put on his "listening ears," engage him in "dialogue," and then sit back and wait for an enlightened epiphany as regards the joys of western liberal decadence. Far more effective, as a message to other little dears who might be led astray, would be to publically hang him and wrap his remains in pigskin. The British did it in the Sepoy Rebellion and it worked wonders.

Edited September 22, 2007 by ScottSA

[betsy]

I cant believe some of the posts Khadr was only 15 yrs old a child.We dont treat children's of 15 like adults in Canada.Blame his father hes was the bad guy

I believe some children could be tried in criminal courts as adults....depending of course, on the type of crimes they commit.

[capricorn]

I cant believe some of the posts Khadr was only 15 yrs old a child.We dont treat children's of 15 like adults in Canada.Blame his father hes was the bad guy

lenwick, I understand your point. Yes, he was only 15 years old when he was captured and sent to Guantanamo. Yet, children of extremists are given guns as young as 6 and know darn well how to use them. These children cannot possibly be compared to the children of Canadians as we know them.

At the age of 15, Omar Kadhr was fully indoctrinated to hate the west and to kill westerners. IMO the years he has spent at Guantanamo have hardened him and further ingrained his extremist views. I truly don't believe he can be rehabilitated and could never integrate into a western country. No amount of wishing will change this reality.

Truthfully, I think it would have been better for everyone, especially him, if he would have been killed at the time in combat with the US military. He was allowed to live. Think about it. He was allowed to live. American troops could have killed him on the spot and that would have been the end of it. What kind of life does he have to look forward to now? What do we suppose is going through his mind? Getting his freedom and living a normal life? More importantly, why are so many Canadians agonizing over his fate? I sure would like to know.

[ScottSA]

I'd like to know just how many "Canadians" there are all over the globe gnashing their teeth and hoping for the coming of the 12th Imam and lots of dead westerners? It seems the only time they have anything to do with canada is when they need a lift out of whatever shithole they managed to stir up trouble in. Lebanon was a bit of an eye opener, but I understand that lots of them are in Africa slaughtering the infidel too. Where else? How many?

[jennie]

lenwick, I understand your point. Yes, he was only 15 years old when he was captured and sent to Guantanamo. Yet, children of extremists are given guns as young as 6 and know darn well how to use them. These children cannot possibly be compared to the children of Canadians as we know them.

At the age of 15, Omar Kadhr was fully indoctrinated to hate the west and to kill westerners. IMO the years he has spent at Guantanamo have hardened him and further ingrained his extremist views. I truly don't believe he can be rehabilitated and could never integrate into a western country. No amount of wishing will change this reality.

Truthfully, I think it would have been better for everyone, especially him, if he would have been killed at the time in combat with the US military. He was allowed to live. Think about it. He was allowed to live. American troops could have killed him on the spot and that would have been the end of it. What kind of life does he have to look forward to now? What do we suppose is going through his mind? Getting his freedom and living a normal life? More importantly, why are so many Canadians agonizing over his fate? I sure would like to know.

We don't know whether he can be rehabilitated unless we request to bring him home. 6 years is enough when he has been convicted of nothing.

[capricorn]

We don't know whether he can be rehabilitated unless we request to bring him home. 6 years is enough when he has been convicted of nothing.

Jennie, if you believe there is a chance he could be rehabilitated, then you are truly living in a dream world. I am just a little bit envious of your optimism.....

[jennie]

Jennie, if you believe there is a chance he could be rehabilitated, then you are truly living in a dream world. I am just a little bit envious of your optimism.....

I am saying we cannot make that judgment without proper assessment.

And I am saying can we not accord to him the same effort we put into saving child soldiers in other countries?

http://www.unicef.ca/portal/Secure/Communi...iers%5B1%5D.pdf

In A LONG WAY GONE: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier, Beah, now twenty-six years old, tells a powerfully gripping story: At the age of twelve, he fled attacking rebels and wandered a land rendered unrecognizable by violence. By thirteen, he’d been picked up by the government army, and Beah, at heart a gentle boy, found that he was capable of truly terrible acts. At sixteen, he was removed from fighting by UNICEF, and through the help of the staff at his rehabilitation center, he learned how to forgive himself, to regain his humanity, and, finally, to heal.

Edited September 22, 2007 by jennie

[Higgly]

Obviously you have no idea what a engineering consultant is.

Any consultant if not employed by a company and who works for himself or herself is technically UNEMPLOYED.

Was he not returning home from vacationing in Tunisia, nothing to suggest or do with any type of work.

Arar is a dual citizen of both Syria and Canada, that is where the Syrian connection comes in.

Actually this is a good site as it goes to bat for Arab nationalities. It warns of the bad U.S.

BTW- Maybe you can tell me who paid for Arar's legal team?

No. You are technically unemployed if you are registered in some government system - most often, the UIC system, and have been actively seeking work. Self-employed consultants are not eligible for UIC and therefor are not counted when the unemployment numbers are tallied.

[Visionseeker]

First, Khadr is not a child. I don't think of fifteen year olds as children, either, frankly, not when they're wielding machine guns.

A fifteen year old indoctrinated from his earliest age isn't a fifteen year old as you would understand one.

Dan Gardner makes an excellent point in comparing Omar Khadr with Ishmael Beah

Khadr is, by all I've heard, beyond rehabilitation.

And who have you actually heard from? Do any of these people constitute mental health professionals who've had the benefit of examining Khadr?

The very concept of rehabilitation is a western liberal arrogance which implies that by simply speaking to the poor, benighted soul some wise and gentle liberal therapist can convince him of the error of his ways, convince him to renounce a lifetime of violence and religious fanaticism. That's utterly ludicrous.

Yup. De-programming and post-traumatic stress treatments never work. It's all just a great big scam don't you know?[/sarcasm]

However he became what he is, Khadr is now a violently inclined religious fanatic with a hatred for the West. On being brought back here and released he would immediately start considering how he could gather like-minded individuals and what violence they could perpetrate.

Oh I see, those namby-pamby liberal therapists with all their books and research to back-up their knowledge and skills are know-nothings when stacked-up against your ever intuitive gut-instincts. You know no more than the rest of us what Khadr would or would not do upon his eventual release and your omniscient professions carry a heavy tone of fanaticism in their own right.

When Khadr is released, I hope we commit what is necessary to help him rehabilitate. Perhaps he might eventually share his experiences with young people to show them just how destructive a force hate can be.

[Higgly]

I'd like to know just how many "Canadians" there are all over the globe gnashing their teeth and hoping for the coming of the 12th Imam and lots of dead westerners? It seems the only time they have anything to do with canada is when they need a lift out of whatever shithole they managed to stir up trouble in. Lebanon was a bit of an eye opener, but I understand that lots of them are in Africa slaughtering the infidel too. Where else? How many?

Well there are quite a few who are gnashing their teeth over the second coming of Christ and the Day of Resurrection. They are called evangelists, missionaries.....

[Higgly]

Funny isn't it. When the Brits under Tony Blair went to bat for their citizens being held at Gitmo and got them repatriated to England, nobody batted an eye. But now that a Canadian politician wants to do the same, the fur starts to fly. Maybe it's because the politician is a Liberal. If Steve did it, there'd be huzzahs all 'round, I'm sure.

[capricorn]

I am saying we cannot make that judgment without proper assessment.

And I am saying can we not accord to him the same effort we put into saving child soldiers in other countries?

http://www.unicef.ca/portal/Secure/Communi...iers%5B1%5D.pdf

As long as they do the "saving" in the country of origin of the "child" soldiers, I agree it is a very noble cause. Good on Unicef.

[jennie]

As long as they do the "saving" in the country of origin of the "child" soldiers, I agree it is a very noble cause. Good on Unicef.

He is Canadian.

This is an account from a young man ...

In A LONG WAY GONE: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier, Beah, now twenty-six years old, tells a powerfully gripping story: At the age of twelve, he fled attacking rebels and wandered a land rendered unrecognizable by violence. By thirteen, he’d been picked up by the government army, and Beah, at heart a gentle boy, found that he was capable of truly terrible acts. At sixteen, he was removed from fighting by UNICEF, and through the help of the staff at his rehabilitation center, he learned how to forgive himself, to regain his humanity, and, finally, to heal.

Edited September 22, 2007 by jennie

[old_bold&cold]

Jenni

If Canada ever made the request to bring this filfth home, I would make sure that I never voted for that party ever again. He gave up his right to Canadian citizenship and went back to his country of origin citizenship, the day he took part in the terroist activities. No one is requesting his return here, because no one wants him here. Only a few misguided individuals like yourself think he is worth anything. So since you are so concerned maybe you should go to Gitmo and help plead his case to the USA. You do have the right to do that you know. Why do you think others should take on this quest you have for a lost cause. The rest of his family should also be investigated about there beliefs and if it is found that they lied about this on their citizenship applications, then we should also send them back to where they came from as well.

I get just so sick and tired of the whining people do over such things, when they know the majority just want to leave him where he is. The USA will return him to afghanistan, which is where they found him, and that will be that. His skill set is such that he knows how to build explosives and fire AK47's to cause the most damage to people. He believes that all of us are his enemy and if we do not convert to islam we should be put to death. So go snuggle up close to him and see what you can do to rehab him. Just do not ask our government for any thing that the majority of Canadians do not want to happen.

[Visionseeker]

Maybe because the majority of Canadians don't want him in Canada.

Ah yes, the rights of the individual as determined through public opinion. Kind of brings me back to those witch buring days.

Do you personally believe he would be a positive addition to Canadian society?

He is a member of Canadian society (born in Toronto), not an addition.

[capricorn]

He is Canadian.

I was commenting on your linked article that UNICEF cares about child soldiers. And no, I don't think we should put the same effort in "saving" the un-savable. By the way, I wonder if Kadhr thinks he is Canadian? Should be interesting to know the truthful answer come from his lips.