Israel attacks Syrian port

[M.Dancer]

Higgly probably already has but we still have to work on explaining to him to have a cherry coke with the pastrami not a Guiness. These things take time JBG. I hope you live to see it in your time.

Cherry Fanta with a smoked meat.

Franchement, Nous somme Canadien

[Higgly]

Cherry Fanta with a smoked meat.

Franchement, Nous somme Canadien

Mint tea with hummous on a pita, please. Besides, everybody knows you can only get decent smoked meat in Montreal. Thank goodness Schwartz sells milk. A Coke product with smoked meat. I don't know. That really is going over to the far side. But Fanta? Yikes. You are aware of the history?

In any case, I was going to take some credit for finally forcing Rue to read an honest historian (MacMillan). Keep it up Rue, and maybe you can move past the hate mongering to honest debate.

As for the motives of Feisal and Weitzmann, I think this is key to understanding what is driving both Arabs and Jews in Palestine.

Feisal was the Arab leader who helped T.E. Lawrence defeat the Turks and in exchange for this, Lawrence, and the British, promised Feisal his Arab state. A state the Arabs had hungered for through centuries of brutal rule under the Turks. Feisal actually believed the British (too bad he didn't know anybody from India). I do not agree with Rue that Feisal was acting out of arrogance, but rather that he believed he was an important Arab leader who had acted wisely, backed the winning side, and would be the father of the long awaited pan-Arab state. What happened to Feisal was tragic and it is the British who are to blame. MacMillan's account of how Feisal was treated in Paris is very sad reading. This was a man who was greatly betrayed by the British. Feisal was magnanimous towards Weitzmann and the Jews in his hour of glory and that makes him all the more a sympathetic character in my books. Both Feisal and Abdullah are important factors in the success of modern Israel.

As for Weitzmann, he was driven by a burning ambition to solve the problem that had burned in the hearts of Jews for so long. A return to the land of Israel, their own homeland, and away from centuries of persecution at the hands of Christian zealots. Had he not delivered the Balfour declaration? Was he not a modern Moses delivering the Jews out of the wasteland? Unfortunately, Weitzmann was not in control of the forces at work. While he was doing deals with Feisal, Zionists were running around Palestine putting up blue and white flags, declaring it the land of Israel (Eretz Israel), and making everybody nervous. Soon guys like Jabotinsky would emerge who would take the whole business to a new level. I haven't seen anything in what I have read that says that Weitzmann was dishonest or disengenuous towards the Arabs. The Jews owe Weitzmann a lot. He was a remarkable man.

The truth is that the British just got themselves into a pickle that they were not focussed or skilful enough to manouevre their way out of. In the end, my guess is that they just didn't give a damn.

The British stuck around until things got ugly and then they bailed. The Jews, with their European roots, had a much better understanding of modern politics, bureaucracy, and warfare, as well as better connections to the power centers of Europe and America; they were able to emerge as dominant. This doesn't mean that the Palestinian Arabs are ever going to give up their claim to the land.

Fast forward to the modern world...

Things are starting to get really ugly. The US dollar is going into freefall and the US stockmarket is sure to follow. Pakistan is starting to come apart at the seams. All of this is the fault of people who believed that power trumps accommodation.

Maybe this would be a good time to find a solution to what ails Israel and the Palestinians. The window of opportunity is closing really fast. But then, what do I know?

Good night and good luck.

[M.Dancer]

Thank goodness Schwartz sells milk.

Ewww...since when?

[Higgly]

Ewww...since when?

Am I wrong? I thought they did. All I remember is that I found something other to drink than soda pop. Maybe it was beer. Or water. Anything is better than soda pop.

In any case, better smoked meat than the crap you get in Toronto.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Higgly

[M.Dancer]

Am I wrong? I thought they did. All I remember is that I found something other to drink than soda pop. Maybe it was beer. Or water. Anything is better than soda pop.

In any case, better smoked meat than the crap you get in Toronto.

Schwarts Hebrew Deli was kosher at one time.....I don't think they were ever licenced.

Maybe you're thinking of the 2nd best place....The Main, right across the street.

[Higgly]

Schwarts Hebrew Deli was kosher at one time.....I don't think they were ever licenced.

Maybe you're thinking of the 2nd best place....The Main, right across the street.

Beats me. Yes it was the Main but all I remember is Shwartz and the smoked meat was to die for.

[M.Dancer]

I had a wee bit today...a friend brought some back.....oh my chloresteral!

[M.Dancer]

Yoiu know, maybe if faisel and wietzman only sat down for a little nosh at moshes...

[Higgly]

I had a wee bit today...a friend brought some back.....oh my chloresteral!

Yeah it's like speeding. You don't want to do it all the time, but oh the rush!

[Higgly]

Yoiu know, maybe if faisel and wietzman only sat down for a little nosh at moshes...

They were manno a manno in the desert near Aqaba and in Paris and they saw eye to eye. Maybe if they had been left to their own devices things would have worked out differently. A tipping point in history.

John Irving wrote in "Hotel New Hampshire" about passing open windows. This is what happens.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Higgly

[jbg]

They were manno a manno in the desert near Aqaba and in Paris and they saw eye to eye. Maybe if they had been left to their own devices things would have worked out differently. A tipping point in history.

John Irving wrote in "Hotel New Hampshire" about passing open windows. This is what happens.

But I asked before, and I guess you forgot to answer, how certain are you that Faisal could bind the "Palestinians" (whatever form they took at the time, Arabs, South Syrians etc.) or Weitzmann the Jews?

[Higgly]

But I asked before, and I guess you forgot to answer, how certain are you that Faisal could bind the "Palestinians" (whatever form they took at the time, Arabs, South Syrians etc.) or Weitzmann the Jews?

Neither could. This is the problem.

Feisal was betrayed by the British. They owed him big time. He had taken a tremendous risk, as had his "mujahadeen". They had helped the British prevail over the Turks. In Paris, The Brits decided that in the end their own little world of gamesmanship with the French was more important than keeping their promises. Together I have no doubt the Brits and the French decided that a Pan-Arab nation was just too damned dangerous, and that the whole thing better be balkanized into little nations drawn up by pastey faced bastards in London and Paris. Imagine if you will, Feisal, Prince of the Desert (note which desert), being shuffled first to Palestine and then to become the King of Mess-O-Potamia? The man who made Lawrence of Arabia famous. Tragic doesn't start to describe what was done to Feisal. We've seen the movie Lawrence of Arabia. We need to see the Feisal movie. Sometimes I wonder if that motorcycle accident hat killed Lawrence was such an accident at all. The poor bugger just might have run himself into a wall out of shame.

The Jews went the Taliban route and started their own little insurrection. They finally drove the Brits out by the use of... wait for it... terrorism. Weitzmann was replaced by Jacobinsky and Ben Gurion - military men. The military still rules Israel. Every once in awhile a guy like Rabin goes over to the other side or a guy like Peres somehow manages to stick his head up above the frey. Mostly its guys like Netenyahu and Sharon.

And on the other side, Arafat and Yassin.

Can you see where it all went so wrong? I can. And I know who to blame.

"God save our allons a la patrie..."

[JerrySeinfeld]

On September 6, Israel 'allegedly' attacked a Syrian port at which a North Korean freighter had docked. Apparently, Israel is paranoid (what else is new?) that the Syrians were importing nuclear (or, as Junior would say, Nuke-u-Lar) weapons from North Korea. Israel can't be sure what was on the ship, but its satellites show that it was from North Korea.

The thinking of course is that Syria will want nukes because Israel has them. Once one country in a region gets nukes, everybody else is suspected to want to have them.

So we have an unconfirmed nuclear arms race started because of something Israel did.

Once again, somebody has to suffer because of Israeli paranoia resulting from its own actions. What a surprise.

Of course if Syria gets ticked off and strikes back, we'll hear about it in a nanosecond.

The Syria / Iran / Hezbollah axis has wanted nukes long before this.

As for Israel, if I lived in a small strip of land surrounded by fanatical people who consistently fire rockets at non-military targets out of pure hatred, and who are supported militarily and financially by a nutso jew hater hellbent on "wiping Israel off the map" I suppose I'd be a bit paranoid too.

[Higgly]

The Syria / Iran / Hezbollah axis has wanted nukes long before this.

As for Israel, if I lived in a small strip of land surrounded by fanatical people who consistently fire rockets at non-military targets out of pure hatred, and who are supported militarily and financially by a nutso jew hater hellbent on "wiping Israel off the map" I suppose I'd be a bit paranoid too.

Sweet. Then you would know what it would have been like to be an Arab living near Haifa in 1948.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Sweet. Then you would know what it would have been like to be an Arab living near Haifa in 1948.

awww - poor arabs

[Higgly]

awww - poor arabs

Thanks for your input. Your well-researched perspective on the matter adds a lot to the discussion. Your opinion is important to everybody who has bothered to do any reading on the matter. Really.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Thanks for your input. Your well-researched perspective on the matter adds a lot to the discussion. Your opinion is important to everybody who has bothered to do any reading on the matter. Really.

If you think Israel is to blaem for the presen situation in the middle east - it's you who has a lot of reading to do my friend.

[Higgly]

If you think Israel is to blaem for the presen situation in the middle east - it's you who has a lot of reading to do my friend.

Like I have said in another post. I have yet to seee any evidence in any of your posts that shows you have ever done any reading into the subject at hand.

And you are not my friend.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Like I have said in another post. I have yet to seee any evidence in any of your posts that shows you have ever done any reading into the subject at hand.

And you are not my friend.

And I have yet to see any evidence in your posts that you have done anything but gargle the spoonfed drivel that is fed to you by leftwing media nuts.

[Higgly]

And I have yet to see any evidence in your posts that you have done anything but gargle the spoonfed drivel that is fed to you by leftwing media nuts.

Still no research. I rest my case.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Still no research. I rest my case.

Research? Your "research" has a nuclear arms race starting because of a recent event.

If you actually had done any research, you'd know that the Iran / Syria / Hezbollah axis (Iran specifically) has been working toward nukes for alot longer than that.

I rest my case.

[Higgly]

[jbg]

Neither could. This is the problem.

That's a very serious problem in negotiating. As I said, you and I, who agree about rather little, could have a great time going out for a drink and discussing politics. We could maybe even pick up a map and draw great boundaries for the Middle East. Would anyone listen, or acre after the Labatts was pissed into some toilet somehwere?

Together I have no doubt the Brits and the French decided that a Pan-Arab nation was just too damned dangerous, and that the whole thing better be balkanized into little nations drawn up by pastey faced bastards in London and Paris.

I can see the self-hatred welling up there.

Imagine if you will, Feisal, Prince of the Desert (note which desert), being shuffled first to Palestine and then to become the King of Mess-O-Potamia? The man who made Lawrence of Arabia famous.

Does every military leader get a country of his/her own?

The Jews went the Taliban route and started their own little insurrection. They finally drove the Brits out by the use of... wait for it... terrorism. Weitzmann was replaced by Jacobinsky and Ben Gurion - military men. The military still rules Israel. Every once in awhile a guy like Rabin goes over to the other side or a guy like Peres somehow manages to stick his head up above the frey. Mostly its guys like Netenyahu and Sharon.

Given the amount that Israel's been at war with UNWRA-fueled terrorists, are you surprised that military people are somewhat prominent, and that military issues' paramountcy makes the election of military leaders more likely?

And on the other side, Arafat and Yassin.

Arafat got his millions out of "Palestine". Do you think Sharon has a huge illicit overseas bank account? Did Sharon live out much of his life in France?

Can you see where it all went so wrong? I can. And I know who to blame.

"God save our allons a la patrie..."

Turning over Pakistan to Jinnah didn't have much better results, did it? Edited November 10, 2007 by jbg

[buffycat]

Getting this thread back onto topic, the Israeli attack on Syria, this article may interest some here (only some since many seem to have buried their heads up their *** as far as this whole topic goes).

Nations nuclear watchdog - has not been able to conduct an investigation into the events surrounding the Sept. 6 Israeli bombing of a Syrian military installation because neither the Bush administration nor Israel are cooperating.

A diplomatic source close to the Vienna based IAEA told Raw Story that both the United States and Israel have been approached by the organization requesting supporting evidence of a nuclear reactor which media sources have cited, based on anonymous sources in both governments, as the reason for the Israeli strike.

The source also explained that the satellite footage, which the IAEA obtained through commercial channels for lack of any “credible evidence,” does not show a nuclear reactor in the early construction phase.

Another source, close to the IAEA, who wished to remain anonymous due to the sensitive nature of the topic, told RAW STORY last week that based on satellite imagery, evidence that "it was nuclear related is shaky" and pointed out that even basic security for such a facility - such as "security fences" - is missing.

Some IAEA experts have privately opined that the facility - located between the cities of Hama and Dayr az-Zawr in the Northeastern part of Syria - may have been "no more than a workshop for the pumice mining industry along the banks of the Euphrates."

Both individuals independently confirmed that the IAEA cannot conduct a formal investigation without the cooperation of either Israel or the United States, although both confirmed that the Syrian government is cooperating.

LINK

*sigh*

By way of deception...

[M.Dancer]

Getting this thread back onto topic, the Israeli attack on Syria, this article may interest some here (only some since many seem to have buried their heads up their *** as far as this whole topic goes).

LINK

*sigh*

By way of deception...

Deception, no kidding. If the they wanted to check out the story all they need do is go to Syria....then find out why it was necessary to not only remove every structure, but to remove tons of earth too.

Those sensitive pumice works....