Quebec bars dentist for failing French test

[Leafless]

The Ordre des dentistes du Québec has refused to renew the licence of an Aylmer dentist who failed four times to pass French-language proficiency exams required by Quebec's French language charter.

How can Stephen Harper possibly continue to reward Quebec with federal amenities and federal cash when the province continues to promote and utilize provincial racist policies.

Quebec has the equivalent of its own provincial constitution, while other provinces in Canada do not have the powers granted to Quebec by our federal government and allowing it to retain its discriminatory French Language Charter.

This dentist caters to English and other minorities in Aylmer Quebec (a sector of Gatineau Quebec) and can speak French but not good to satisfy the demands of the French Language Charter which is not part of any private corporation but rather consist of nothing more than provincial backed racism.

It should be time to call a spade a spade and grant all other majority English speaking provinces in Canada the same political powers as Quebec along with the right to enforce an English only policy to ensure English will always be dominant.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/c...08-212973e957f7

Edited September 18, 2007 by Leafless

[Wilber]

I am sure he would be welcome elsewhere in Canada. Quebec's loss, someone elses gain, no?

[guyser]

political powers as Quebec along with the right to enforce an English only policy to ensure English will always be dominant.

Dont they already? If a dentist cant speak english he doesnt pass the exam to graduate . Ergo, no licence to practice.

[Leafless]

I am sure he would be welcome elsewhere in Canada. Quebec's loss, someone elses gain, no?

Point is, this dentist is filling a void to accommodate English and other minority patients who feel more comfortable with the services of an English speaking dentist.

And who can blame them.

[Leafless]

Dont they already? If a dentist cant speak english he doesnt pass the exam to graduate . Ergo, no licence to practice.

Surely you are not making a comparison between majority English and minority French?

What I am talking about are majority English provinces being granted the same right as Quebec, to make English the official language of that province, with a charter to legally enforce the English language as well as being recognized federally.

[guyser]

Surely you are not making a comparison between majority English and minority French?

What comparison? He cannot speak or write French well enough to pass the exam in French, the majority language of Quebec, ergo he cannot pratice.

What I am talking about are majority English provinces being granted the same right as Quebec, to make English the official language of that province, with a charter to legally enforce the English language as well as being recognized federally.

Again, if one cannot speak or write the english exam in ROC, then he too does not get a cert to practice.

Seems practical to me. The ROC speaks english, people have to be able to converse in it both orally and written if they want a professional certification.

What is the charter hang up got to do with it. Provinces already are on your side since it is english

[geoffrey]

Surely you are not making a comparison between majority English and minority French?

What I am talking about are majority English provinces being granted the same right as Quebec, to make English the official language of that province, with a charter to legally enforce the English language as well as being recognized federally.

Every province other than Quebec and New Brunswick have an offical language policy of English.

[Leafless]

Every province other than Quebec and New Brunswick have an offical language policy of English.

I don't want to get into this again.

I googled official provincial languages and only Quebec keeps coming up with no mention of other provinces with official provincial language policies outside of the federal official languages of Canada English and French.

Maybe you can explain why other English speaking provinces do not appear has having provincially designated 'Official English language policies'

Edited September 19, 2007 by Leafless

[Leafless]

What comparison? He cannot speak or write French well enough to pass the exam in French, the majority language of Quebec, ergo he cannot pratice.

The issue is you have a minority language that has declared itself 'officially French' complete with a French Language Charter that flies in the face of the federal 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms' and racially discriminates.

The federal government to date has not intervened to question the validity of continually every five years renewing the use of the 'notwithstanding clause' to allow Quebec to override commitment to the Federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms and to continue to racially discriminate, primarily against English speaking Canadians.

BTW- This dentist passed the speaking portion of the French language test but only achieved 50% on the written portion of the test, whereas a pass mark in Quebec is 60%.

The federal language test require 50% as a passing grade, not 60% like Quebec.

I have heard this dentist has had enough with Quebec BS and intends to return to Ottawa to practice.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

The 60% minimum grade to pass is a nonsense argument. I have studied in a few systems, with varying required levels to pass (as high as 70%).

You'll still get the same proportion of a class who will pass, so if a higher percentage is required to pass, the passing proportion's grades would be inflated.

If the dentist can't get at least 60% in a language examination, written or oral, his/her language skills are weak and should be brushed up if the language skill is required.

Regardless of to whom this dentist caters to, if I need to see a dentist tomorrow in my locale, he/she better be able to communicate with me in the locale's language (I don't have time for language barriers if my tooth has urgent problems).

Yes I can blame this dentist for catering to Anglophones in West Gatineau... Why live in West Gatineau when this dentist could easily work in the RoC?

[Wilber]

The 60% minimum grade to pass is a nonsense argument. I have studied in a few systems, with varying required levels to pass (as high as 70%).

You'll still get the same proportion of a class who will pass, so if a higher percentage is required to pass, the passing proportion's grades would be inflated.

If you want any kind of license in aviation, 70% on a written exam is a pass. They don't care how many fail, if you don't meet the minimum standard of knowledge, you don't get one. Language isn't an issue when it comes to issuing a license in Canada, you can do it in French or English but if you want to fly internationally, you must have a working knowledge of English, period.

If the dentist can't get at least 60% in a language examination, written or oral, his/her language skills are weak and should be brushed up if the language skill is required.

Required, no, advisable, yes.

Regardless of to whom this dentist caters to, if I need to see a dentist tomorrow in my locale, he/she better be able to communicate with me in the locale's language (I don't have time for language barriers if my tooth has urgent problems).

Bull, you will be grateful for any help you can get. A good friend of ours just about bled to death in Tokyo from a ruptured stomach ulcer. Despite the fact the paramedics and ER people probably didn't have fifty words of English between them and she spoke next to no Japanese at the time, it didn't stop them from saving her life and 15 years later she is still fast friends with one of her intensive care nurses.

Yes I can blame this dentist for catering to Anglophones in West Gatineau... Why live in West Gatineau when this dentist could easily work in the RoC?

Most reprehensible, he makes peoples lives better and chooses to do it in Quebec. Disgusting.

The person is a dentist not a linguist. On the west coast we have a huge Asian ethnic population, many of them who don't yet have good English language skills. Should they be denied medical services in a language they can understand because a government requires their practitioner to meet a certain standard of English whether their patient can understand them or not. I think that if a person can pass the required technical exams in English or French, that should be good enough. If a dentist doesn't speak good enough French or English for you, find one that does.

[guyser]

The issue is you have a minority language that has declared itself 'officially French' complete with a French Language Charter that flies in the face of the federal 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms' and racially discriminates.

French is spoken at home by 83% of Quebec residents.Not sure why or where the "minority" thing comes from as it obviously is not true.

As such, a dentist should be able to speak and read french to the level established. It is painfully simple.

The federal government to date has not intervened to question the validity of continually every five years renewing the use of the 'notwithstanding clause' to allow Quebec to override commitment to the Federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms and to continue to racially discriminate, primarily against English speaking Canadians.

And this has nothing to do with the charter. It is mandated by the Medical society of Quebec that Docs read and write in the language of the province.

BTW- This dentist passed the speaking portion of the French language test but only achieved 50% on the written portion of the test, whereas a pass mark in Quebec is 60%.

Shortened version is...he failed

I have heard this dentist has had enough with Quebec BS and intends to return to Ottawa to practice.

Should have made sure what the requirements are before moving and saved himself some money.

[kimmy]

Should have made sure what the requirements are before moving and saved himself some money.

He should have stayed in Iran?

Most reprehensible, he makes peoples lives better and chooses to do it in Quebec. Disgusting.

Indeed. What an inconsiderate individual. Fixing people's teeth in the wrong official language. I wonder how he sleeps at night.

I would hope that Mr Raisi moves his practice (and himself, and the taxes he pays) to Ottawa. I am sure that if his 2000 patients were not offended by his less than stellar French language skills, they won't mind making the short drive across the river. If Ottawa is anything like it was when I lived there, I expect that there'll be no shortage of patients looking for a dentist regardless of how well he can write in French.

He received passing grades in the oral portion of the exam; M Paquette's comment that dentists require written skills as well strikes me as rather odd, since every dental clinic I've ever attended has full-time staff who perform all record-keeping and so-on. I'm not sure I can recall ever seeing a dentist holding a pen.

According to the article...

Gérald Paquette, a spokesman for the Office québécois de la langue française, which enforces the language charter, said yesterday the law requires would-be members of 45 professions to pass oral and written language tests unless they have received university or high school education in French in Quebec.

The list of those required to pass the tests includes acupuncturists, dentists, engineers, geologists, midwives, social workers and urban planners.

... geologists?! Do the rocks in Quebec only speak French?

I would think that this sort of policy can only serve to damage Quebec economically. Employers have a hard enough time recruiting professionals (in any field) even in English Canada; this policy could only serve to further limit the pool from which Quebec employers can fill their needs.

I would also assume this sort of thing can only serve to continue the exodus of Anglos from Quebec; people who will continue to look for more welcoming environments elsewhere in Canada, and taking their skills and earning potential with them.

-k

[guyser]

He should have stayed in Iran?

Oops, I thought he went from Ottawa to Quebec. Thanks for the correction.

[mikedavid00]

Point is, this dentist is filling a void to accommodate English and other minority patients who feel more comfortable with the services of an English speaking dentist.

And who can blame them.

Almyer is right near Ottawa and an English speaking part of Quebec.

Quebec promotes racisist policies in 2007.

[mikedavid00]

He should have stayed in Iran?

Lol.. ah yes.

If he's from Iran then.. lol..

Certain countries get into Canada fastest by using Quebecs immigration. From there, you then apply to get Canadian immigration which is almost a given.

Chinese people land in Montreal on a daily basis and are very well versed at working 'the system'. And yes they need a french test to get in, but those are all extrememely easy to cheat and falsify.

Applying for special immigration to Quebec allows you to bypass the Canadian system and get in faster. Then after a couple of years people will move to Ontario and come work here claiming they know how to speak French and take the jobs.

Their french is usually the worst, mangled, excuse for speaking a language you have ever heard.

[Leafless]

French is spoken at home by 83% of Quebec residents.Not sure why or where the "minority" thing comes from as it obviously is not true.

It is true.

Your logic would only be correct if Quebec was an independent country.

Quebec is part of Canada and since their total population is 7,687,068 and close to a million of those people are English, so obviously French Quebecers are a minority in Canada. Face the real world.

As such, a dentist should be able to speak and read french to the level established. It is painfully simple.

And this has nothing to do with the charter. It is mandated by the Medical society of Quebec that Docs read and write in the language of the province.

Well it does have a lot to do with the Charter.

The Charter dictates English and French are the official FEDERAL languages of Canada.

Quebec unilaterally went ahead and declared itself 'officially French' with its own French Language Charter and did this by incorporating the notwithstanding clause, which must be renewed every five years.

And this is where the problem lies.

The federal government is (up to now) is NOT contesting the fact relating to Quebec not adhering to the 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms' and continues to allow Quebec to racially discriminate. WHY????

IMO a minority declaring itself officially French is federally ILLEGAL and flies in the face of the whole purpose of federal bilingualism.

But yet the federal government does not allow English speaking provinces the same rights as Quebec to legally declare themselves officially English with a provincial language Charter.

Should have made sure what the requirements are before moving and saved himself some money.

To bad the requirements are obviously FRAUDULENT, in the absence of politicians that lack linguistic leadership and integrity and who fail to support their own federal Charter.

[jbg]

I am sure he would be welcome elsewhere in Canada. Quebec's loss, someone elses gain, no?

Do these people want medical/dental care or linguistic correctness? An excerpt from the full article is particularly shocking:

The list of those required to pass the tests includes acupuncturists, dentists, engineers, geologists, midwives, social workers and urban planners.

Mr. Paquette said Dr. Raisi

passed the oral comprehension and expression tests, but failed the written exam administered by language office staff

.

It would seem to me that "oral comprehension and expression" would enable him to serve the Francophone community. What does ability to write in French have to do with ability to drill teeth?

Edited September 20, 2007 by jbg

[Kapitän Rotbart]

@Wilber:

Bull, you will be grateful for any help you can get. A good friend of ours just about bled to death in Tokyo from a ruptured stomach ulcer. Despite the fact the paramedics and ER people probably didn't have fifty words of English between them and she spoke next to no Japanese at the time, it didn't stop them from saving her life and 15 years later she is still fast friends with one of her intensive care nurses.

Yes, if I'm in another part of the world where I do not speak the language, I will gladly accept any help I can get. However, when I'm in my locale, I expect the professional to be able to communicate with me an a language in which I am comfortable, especially in case I would want to contact this professional in the future.

Clearly in a case of life or death I would love to be treated ASAP, but in my locale, I should be able to be treated in one of my languages. If those professionals on the West Coast can pass the examinations in English, I would imagine that their English would be up to par.

@jbg:

It would seem to me that "oral comprehension and expression" would enable him to serve the Francophone community. What does ability to write in French have to do with ability to drill teeth?

I hear you, but this was after several language tests. He's been working in West Gatineau for a while, he could be fluent in French by now.

@Mikedavid00:

Chinese people land in Montreal on a daily basis and are very well versed at working 'the system'. And yes they need a french test to get in, but those are all extremely easy to cheat and falsify.

Then maybe they should increase the difficulty of those language tests! MDR!

@kimmy:

... geologists?! Do the rocks in Quebec only speak French?

From my understandings, geologists report their findings to governments and academic institutions, not to rocks. One would have to be fluent in French in order to report to Québec's gov't and to most of their universities (at least to the provincial universities where I gather most funding is granted, which would oh so likely be in French... mdr).

@Leafless:

IMO a minority declaring itself officially French is federally ILLEGAL and flies in the face of the whole purpose of federal bilingualism.

Québec simply chose to use one of the two official languages provincially, the same thing all provinces except Neu Braunschweig chose to do.

[Leafless]

Québec simply chose to use one of the two official languages provincially, the same thing all provinces except Neu Braunschweig chose to do.

The two federal official languages fall ONLY under federal entities and NOT provincial entities.

Quebec had no business declaring itself 'officially French' with its own French Charter at the expense of the federal government, that represents all of Canada.

The federal government has FAILED to protect the rights of the English speaking majority in every province outside of Quebec.

The federal government has failed to protect 'official bilingualism' within the federal government by recognizing Quebec as an 'provincial official language', with its own French Charter, rather than simply a province with a French minority.

This of course nullifies the concept of 'official bilingualism in the federal government by recognizing Quebec as an official French language' when the federal government never had nothing to do allowing Quebec this privilege.

This official status with its French Charter also allows Quebec NOT to adhere to the federal promotion of bilingualism throughout Canada but forces English provinces to promote and implement bilingualism.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Quebec had no business declaring itself 'officially French' with its own French Charter at the expense of the federal government, that represents all of Canada.

Whether Québec has its own charter or not, it can still choose to only use one of the two official languages if it chooses to, just like most provinces chose to do so. Québec can choose to use French only, just like Alberta can choose to use English only within their provincial gov't... there really is no difference.

This official status with its French Charter also allows Quebec NOT to adhere to the federal promotion of bilingualism throughout Canada but forces English provinces to promote and implement bilingualism.

Oh right, because Vancouver is forced to promote bilingualism, and Montréal isn't... MDR! Seriously, bilingualism is much more important in Québec than in most of the RoC by nature, no gov't intervention required. Out west, no one needs French unless they want certain positions in the federal gov't or in certain international positions where it would be required... that's pretty much it (whereas is Québec, so many jobs require bilingualism because the English language surrounds them). The provincial governments out west don't seem to be advancing bilingualism regardless of federal gov't pressure but rather not doing anything with regards to the language issue. Québec having its own charter doesn't really change anything, because Québec cannot abolish the necessity for bilingualism within their province.

[AngusThermopyle]

many jobs require bilingualism because the English language surrounds them

Have you ever gone to Quebec and tried to use English with government employee's there?

Good luck, you usually just get a blank look, then they rapidly rattle of something in French and you are no further ahead. If you want an English speaker to assist or serve you its like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Thats one reason I don't go to that Province anymore, amongst a few others.

[Leafless]

Whether Québec has its own charter or not, it can still choose to only use one of the two official languages if it chooses to, just like most provinces chose to do so.

This is not true.

Quebec is a province in Canada that harbours a MINORITY French language. Don't you find it strange a minority language can dominate certain English provincial concerns in other majority English provinces because of federal intervention? Just because it is an 'official federal language' does not give it provincial dominance anywhere else other than Quebec and New Brunswick a province that agreed to become officially bilingual.

Name me one other English speaking Canadian province with its own language Charter?

Name me one other English speaking Canadian province that is allowed to discriminate against the French language , the other federal official language?

Tell me WHY no other Canadian province is allowed by the federal government to declare itself officially English with its own Charter like Quebec, in order to preserve and protect its English self interest from foreign immigration and including the harmful effects of the federal government forcefully advancing French as part of its bilingual campaign.

Québec can choose to use French only, just like Alberta can choose to use English only within their provincial gov't... there really is no difference.

There is a difference.

Alberta does not force English rules and laws on its own residents within that province, like Quebec does.

Quebec having its own charter doesn't really change anything, because Québec cannot abolish the necessity for bilingualism within their province.

Quebec is trying very hard to rid the province of English.

Besides what does Quebec really expect utilizing an obsolete minority language? A language used on the same level as majority English?

It makes a lot more sense for Quebec to become 'officially English' using French as a recreational language.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

@AngusThermopyle:

Have you ever gone to Quebec and tried to use English with government employee's there?

Good luck, you usually just get a blank look, then they rapidly rattle of something in French and you are no further ahead. If you want an English speaker to assist or serve you its like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Thats one reason I don't go to that Province anymore, amongst a few others.

True, however there are bigger motives for Québecers to learn English than Westerners to learn French. Based on what Americans have told me, they find less of a language barrier in Québec than in mainland Europe.

You won't get provincial gov't employees in Québec to speak to you in English, however a large portion of private sector employees are bilingual, plus there is a sustainable Anglophone community in Québec. My point was that, charter or no charter, bilingualism is much more important in Québec than in most of the RoC, and therefore does not require any effort on behalf of Québec's gov't to advance bilingualism in that province.

@Leafless:

Name me one other English speaking Canadian province with its own language Charter?

Name me one other French speaking province with its own language charter. There is none. Québec may have its own charter, but it's not a language charter, but rather a charter of rights. The only language content in the charter of rights is that one can get a court hearing in either official language. Sounds favourable for the Anglophones if anything. Québec may have language laws, but these laws are not part of the charter of rights.

Name me one other English speaking Canadian province that is allowed to discriminate against the French language , the other federal official language?

I could say any and every of them, depending on the context.

Québec does not discriminate specifically against the English language officially. In fact, they simply choose to use French. Most other provinces choose to use English. Think about it, if a WASP is hiring and does not need a bilingual candidate to fill a certain position, the employer may actually prefer to hire a monolingual candidate if this employer is either a xenophobe (to even the slightest degree) or maybe just doesn't like Francophones. This may occur quite often in the RoC and the gov't is doing nothing to stop this. Québec is just as much to blame for language discrimination as the RoC.

There is a difference.

Alberta does not force English rules and laws on its own residents within that province, like Quebec does.

Yeah? Will Alberta allow their residents to do their K-12 in French, even if neither of their parents speak a word of French? Will Albertans make an effort to speak to Francophones in French if these Francophones visiting or living in Alberta cannot speak sufficient English? Does Alberta even have French language schools providing public education until the 12th grade?

Sounds like Alberta is no less discriminating than Québec. Ontario won't even let children do K-12 in French unless at least one of the two parents speak French.

Quebec is trying very hard to rid the province of English.

Besides what does Quebec really expect utilizing an obsolete minority language? A language used on the same level as majority English?

It makes a lot more sense for Quebec to become 'officially English' using French as a recreational language.

Québec is not really doing much these days in terms of getting rid of the English language. I haven't seen much change with regards to reducing the English language in Québec since the quiet revolution.

Québec does not seem to expect anything new from using French... apparently they have what they expected... a place where they can do everything in their own language. Would you submit your idea to the government of Québec that they use English as a local commercial language and limit their use of the French language to the comfort of their own homes? Are you nuts? Seriously, put yourself in their shoes. Say, you live in a city of half a million, absolutely everyone in that city speaks the same language as you and can hardly speak any other language. Then when you apply for a job, you're expected to converse in your second language, and building up patience while everyone else tries to communicate with you in that 2nd language... it will never happen! Ever! Keep trying, but you'll never convince the Québecers to have their meetings, do their phone calls, send their emails, etc., etc. to each other in any language but French.