jawapunk Posted October 4, 2007 Report Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) True....a very large portion of the United States was never a British colony.The English language isn't even British in origin, being one of the great "borrower" languages (western Germanic), a tradition Americans and others continue to this day. Such flexibility and adaptability distinguishes English from French and its cultural "protectors", but that is a topic for another thread. I'm glad you mention the borrowing, because that is the origin of the "our" in many of English's words. When the Normans conquered England in 1066 they brought with them the French language which became the offical court language for a couple hundred years, basically what resulted was what we would describe as "Middle English". Geoffrey Chaucer and his contemporaries would have spoken their vernacular as such. Because of this we see many romance words and sentence structures not seen in the primarily Germanic Anglo-Saxon languages which would have constituted "Old English". How the shift occurred in America to drop these vowels may have been as stated a "rebellious" act to signify the split Americans felt towards the English government and people. Edited October 4, 2007 by jawapunk Quote Leg room, there is none.
M.Dancer Posted October 4, 2007 Report Posted October 4, 2007 I'm glad you mention the borrowing, because that is the origin of the "our" in many of English's words. When the Normans conquered England in 1066 they brought with them the French language which became the offical court language for a couple hundred years, basically what resulted was what we would describe as "Middle English". Geoffrey Chaucer and his contemporaries would have spoken their vernacular as such. Because of this we see many romance words and sentence structures not seen in the primarily Germanic Anglo-Saxon languages which would have constituted "Old English". How the shift occurred in America to drop these vowels may have been as stated a "rebellious" act to signify the split Americans felt towards the English government and people. Yet very few words in total are Norman french.....many have latin and greek roots...but that has more to do with the renaisence than anyting else....... An e3xample of norman influence.....food Peasants raised pigs, normans ate pork Peasants raised kine, Normans ate beef Peasants raised sheep, nornans ate muton Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jawapunk Posted October 4, 2007 Report Posted October 4, 2007 Actually the Normans had an enormous influence on our language. The strucure of sentences completly changed as a consequence of this. You can see this influence in Old English texts which read and were structured something akin to dutch or german in their pronunciation and word placement, word endings etc.. Middle English which is pre-Rennaissance, is where the Romance (LATIN) influence comes in. Those were some good examples of words from the Normans though. And it is true that Norman French was a little different, this is because the Normans were actually Vikings, or the descendants of them. Which is why they are called Norman in the first place: Nor = North, or North Men, men from the north. They adopted the French language over a period of time. Quote Leg room, there is none.
jbg Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Posted October 5, 2007 I'm glad you mention the borrowing, because that is the origin of the "our" in many of English's words. When the Normans conquered England in 1066 they brought with them the French language which became the offical court language for a couple hundred years, basically what resulted was what we would describe as "Middle English". Geoffrey Chaucer and his contemporaries would have spoken their vernacular as such.I suspect that one of the reasons for English's success as a world language is "borrowing" of local words. This is especially evident in Australia. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Wilber Posted October 5, 2007 Report Posted October 5, 2007 I suspect that one of the reasons for English's success as a world language is "borrowing" of local words. This is especially evident in Australia. Most languages borrow words, hence Franglais, Japlish, Chinglish etc., etc. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jawapunk Posted October 6, 2007 Report Posted October 6, 2007 I wouldn't say that the same applies to English, atleast not in the same context as Japlish, Konglish, Chinglish etc etc. Borrowing may be a bad word to have used. I think it is more appropriate to use "adoption of language", because in the case of English, foreign languages have not only influenced words taken into the language but also have changed the actual structure of English itself. Which is why we see such verbs as "To Be", one of our most basic, which has its conjugational roots in two seperate Germanic languages: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search...searchmode=none Quote Leg room, there is none.
jbg Posted October 8, 2007 Author Report Posted October 8, 2007 Which is why we see such verbs as "To Be", one of our most basic, which has its conjugational roots in two seperate Germanic languages: "To be is to do." -Socrates "To do is to be." -Sartre "Do be do be do." -Sinatra (not original - all over Internet) Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jawapunk Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 I'm not sure what your post meant. Nice quotes? Quote Leg room, there is none.
jbg Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 I'm not sure what your post meant. Nice quotes?Notice emphasis on "to be" in prior post. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jawapunk Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Yeah? So what? I never said English was the first language to use the verb "to be"... I said English's conjugation of the verb "to Be" stems from two previous Germanic versions of the verb. I'm sure the Greeks have their own version of the verb "To Be" as well...so again, I'm not sure what your point is at all. Quote Leg room, there is none.
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