This is America!

[Fortunata]

Right now I'd have to say Edwards is looking good.

I could look at him for the next 4 years. Bush is hard to take (eyes-wise and else-wise).

[Guest American Woman]

I could look at him for the next 4 years. Bush is hard to take (eyes-wise and else-wise).

That's the truth. Not having to look at or accidently listen to Bush any more will be such a relief.

Re: Edwards. He's got the Beautiful Family that the media loves.

Link

Link

Edited September 8, 2007 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

The fact that there are Americans on here (who continue to go on about our freedoms), who, as you say, probably didn't even bother to read the article, shows how little people seem to care. Did you see the other link I posted? That's a shorter read, but just as amazing.

Americans also have the right to not care or vote.

[jbg]

Canada is doomed unfortunately, and I'm a canadian. What I see around me in my fellow canadians is that the youth (and even the somewhat older generation) they've gotten the free marekt materialist bug. They're choosing their "freedom" over having kids sending Canada into a demographic and economic nightmare that's coming upon us without the government resorting to bait and switch tactics to bring immigrants, the truth is capitalism is going to tear apart cultures worldwide, it's happening in Japan as well, they have an ATROCIOUS birthrate, all thanks to modern consumerism and individualism.

A bit of a compound sentence eh? Higher living standards always leade to lower birthrates, since in urban societies additonal children are not the economic assets (i.e. free labor) that they are in rural socieites.

Canada never really had a strong cultural base to begin with and many canadians are just awful people, the rise of corporate consumerism and us being more secular (or liberally religiious) then the US has basically killed canada. Most canadians businesses would defect in a heartbeat. There is no tradition here, just bunch of american-canadian capitalist extremists exploiting the canadian population, sucking as much as they can until the country dissolves into oblivion.

Are you saying more Canadians are "awful people" than other groups? I find that tough to swallow.

Go read Oswalds spenglers "decline of the west", he predicted the Sun would set on west and western culture and it is. The canada we know today will dissolve into a business-state like entity, the government is facing increasing pressure to privatize everything and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a push for economic integration with the US (North american union). The truth is buisinesses US businesses HATE CANADA, they hate our "socialist" values, I hate being mocked by the bad americans (since I know every country has their share of idiots).

I'm an American. Besides my comments on Canadian mis-spelling of words, find one post of mine mocking Canadians. Also "Spenglerian" is a synonym for deeply pessimistic. As the lead post of this thread emphasizes, I am very optimistic.

But I was apalled at many states lack of social safety net for those struck by hard times, like Ohio was just f****retarded. If I was an american I'd be a flaming liberal myself. Part of the reason america is so violent and crime ridden is because half your population is aggressive and paranoid, which must be a real shame.

I live near New York City. I walk around the City at all hours, and feel quite safe. If half the population was "aggressive" I'd be in real trouble; I'm 5'4" and not that strong. Heck, I was afraid to duke it out with a 6'3" Icelander in Montreal (who wasn't that aggressive either).

And explain, how is Ohio different from the other states. Were you there?

Edited September 8, 2007 by jbg

[jbg]

Right now I'd have to say Edwards is looking good.

I hear from my friends in North Carolina that he's detested even in his home state as insufferably arrogant. And his wife being terminally ill won't get him in on sympathy. Americans don't vote that way.

[Guest American Woman]

I hear from my friends in North Carolina that he's detested even in his home state as insufferably arrogant. And his wife being terminally ill won't get him in on sympathy. Americans don't vote that way.

"...his wife being terminally ill won't get him in on sympathy. Americans don't vote that way."

What an asinine thing to say. I don't recall anyone saying anything about his 'getting in on sympathy' because his wife has cancer. Where that is coming from I can't even begin to fathom.

And I hate to break it to you, but the opinion of your friends in North Carolina means nothing to me. I'm guessing it would mean very little to Edwards, too.

[bush_cheney2004]

I hear from my friends in North Carolina that he's detested even in his home state as insufferably arrogant. And his wife being terminally ill won't get him in on sympathy. Americans don't vote that way.

Agreed....my family members in NC echo the same sentiment. This vain person shall never become President. Going for the "cancer vote" won't work either.

Edited September 8, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Agreed....my family members in NC echo the same sentiment. This vain person shall never become President. Going for the "cancer vote" won't work either.

Someone who goes by the handle of bush_cheney2004 has family members that don't like Edwards? Shocking!!

As for "going for the cancer vote," relax. Edwards is intelligent, and as such, the people he's reaching out to are part of the intelligent sector of America, so that line of thought won't enter into his campaign and/or anyone who votes for him.

Edited September 8, 2007 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Someone who goes by the handle of bush_cheney2004 has family members that don't like Edwards? Shocking!!

Actually, one is very liberal and could run circles around your progressive "enlightenment", having traveled around the world to make a difference her way (Rwanda, Madagascar, India, Honduras, Guatemala, etc.). She is a department director at Duke University. This makes her smart enough to recognize pretty boy trial lawyers from a mile away.

Edwards will never be elected US president. Even Bill Clinton knows that.

[Guest American Woman]

Actually, one is very liberal and could run circles around your progressive "enlightenment", having traveled around the world to make a difference her way (Rwanda, Madagascar, India, Honduras, Guatemala, etc.). She is a department director at Duke University. This makes her smart enough to recognize pretty boy trial lawyers from a mile away.

Edwards will never be elected US president. Even Bill Clinton knows that.

Well, then. Since you know me and my "progressive 'enlightment'" so well, while knowing everything that I have or haven't done in my life, I guess I'm totally impressed and put in my place.

NOT!

Whether or not Edwards will ever be elected president remains to be seen. Even Bill Clinton, if he does indeed "know" that, can make mistakes.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, then. Since you know me and my "progressive 'enlightment'" so well, while knowing everything that I have or haven't done in my life, I guess I'm totally impressed and put in my place.

Hmmm....another case of dishing it out but not liking the turnabout. You have no frickin' idea about "bush_cheney2004 family members". Get a clue...buy a vowel.

Edwards is dead meat already....maybe he can be Hilary's sidekick on a losing ticket.

Edited September 8, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Hmmm....another case of dishing it out but not liking the turnabout. You have no frickin' idea about "bush_cheney2004 family members". Get a clue...buy a vowel.

Edwards is dead meat already....maybe he can be Hilary's sidekick on a losing ticket.

"Not liking the turnabout?" Don't quite know where you're getting that from. I laughed at the so called "turnabout." I'm still laughing.

Seriously. I don't think Edward's chances are dependent on what you and/or your family thinks about him. To reinterate, I don't particularly care about what a bush_cheney2004 thinks about him, nor do I care about what your family thinks about him. Shall I bring up my family's feelings about him (or anyone else up for discussion on this board), along with all of their/my credentials/travels/good deeds? Would you care?

But feel free to trot out a family member any time you feel you need to 'put me in my place.' Laughter is good for the soul.

Edited September 9, 2007 by American Woman

[jbg]

To return to the topic of the thread, I went out jogging several days ago. As I pushed my somewhat overweight body up a hill in my development, one inspiring view I am not yet used to is a huge cell tower looming in a straight sightline up the road. The cell tower (not in itself inspiring in any way) is topped with an American flag, waving in the warm early September breeze.

I know there are some Americans (including at least one on this Board) that lack my pride in America. It should be sufficient to quote the immortal song lyrics of Woody Guthrie, who was pilloried by Joe McCarthy as a Communist. No doubt he was a leftist, but that does not make the lyrics any less compelling. (Link to lyrics):

THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND

words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus:

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway

I saw above me an endless skyway

I saw below me a golden valley

This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps

To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts

And all around me a voice was sounding

This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

The sun comes shining as I was strolling

The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling

The fog was lifting a voice come chanting

This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there

And that sign said - no tress passin'

But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!

Now that side was made for you and me!

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple

Near the relief office - I see my people

And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'

If this land's still made for you and me.

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

This land is your land, this land is my land

From California, to the New York Island

From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters

This land was made for you and me

©1956 (renewed 1984), 1958 (renewed 1986) and 1970 TRO-Ludlow Music, Inc. (

BMI)

Edited September 9, 2007 by jbg

[Guest American Woman]

I know there are some Americans (including at least one on this Board) that lack my pride in America.

What a night for laughter this is turning out to be.

I have pride in my country. I just don't overlook/ignore/dismiss all that doesn't fit in with a rose-colored view of America. I see/admit what is wrong with my country because I do have faith in America; faith that it can be so much better than it is right now. I also don't have an 'only in America' attitude when there are countless other nations out there that have it just as good/better than we have it here. In other words, my pride isn't a false pride.

It should be sufficient to quote the immortal song lyrics of Woody Guthrie, who was pilloried by Joe McCarthy as a Communist. No doubt he was a leftist, but that does not make the lyrics any less compelling.

Need I remind you, YOU are a leftist. You must have a serious problem with self-loathing since you cut down leftists as often as you do.

[jbg]

I also don't have an 'only in America' attitude when there are countless other nations out there that have it just as good/better than we have it here. In other words, my pride isn't a false pride.

And those nations would be?

Need I remind you, YOU are a leftist. You must have a serious problem with self-loathing since you cut down leftists as often as you do.

Where did you see me ut down Woody Guthrie?

[Guest American Woman]

And those nations would be?

Here's a few:

Norway

Iceland

Australia

Ireland

Sweden

Canada

Japan

Switzerland

the Netherlands

Finland

Luxembourg

Belgium

Austria

Denmark

France

Italy

the United Kingdom

Spain

New Zealand

Germany

Did you know that Canada consistantly rates above the United States on "best places to live" lists?

Where did you see me ut down Woody Guthrie?

You cut down leftists. You said: "No doubt he was a leftist, but that does not make the lyrics any less compelling." So you're saying the lyrics are compelling in spite of the fact that he's a lefty.

[jbg]

I take those lists with a grain of salt. Particularly one that lists Spain above the US.

[Drea]

I loved that song as a kid... I'd sing it while walking to my best friend's house (5km walk!).

This land is your land,

This land is my land,

From Bonavista

To Vancouver Island,

From the Arctic Circle,

To the Great Lake waters,

This land was made for you and me.

roamed and I rambled

And I followed my footsteps

To the fir-clad forests

Of our mighty mountains

And all around me

A voice was calling,

This land was made for you and me.

I followed your low hills

And I followed your cliff rims,

Your marble canyons

And sunny bright waters.

As the fog was lifting,

A voice was saying

This land was made for you and me.

When the sun comes shining

And I am strolling,

And the wheat fields waving

And dust clouds rolling,

As the fog was lifting

A voice was calling,

This land was made for you and me.

In Canada, the song is sung with the first verse altered to make Canadian geographical references. This version was written and popularized by Canadian folk music group The Travellers in 1955

[jbg]

I loved that song as a kid... I'd sing it while walking to my best friend's house (5km walk!).

This land is your land,

This land is my land,

From Bonavista

To Vancouver Island,

From the Arctic Circle,

To the Great Lake waters,

This land was made for you and me.

roamed and I rambled

And I followed my footsteps

To the fir-clad forests

Of our mighty mountains

And all around me

A voice was calling,

This land was made for you and me.

I followed your low hills

And I followed your cliff rims,

Your marble canyons

And sunny bright waters.

As the fog was lifting,

A voice was saying

This land was made for you and me.

When the sun comes shining

And I am strolling,

And the wheat fields waving

And dust clouds rolling,

As the fog was lifting

A voice was calling,

This land was made for you and me.

In Canada, the song is sung with the first verse altered to make Canadian geographical references. This version was written and popularized by Canadian folk music group The Travellers in 1955

More than the first verse was altered in that version but it looks good. Mind if I sing that version?

And do you have a link to the Travellers' version?

[Guest American Woman]

I take those lists with a grain of salt. Particularly one that lists Spain above the US.

I'm sure you do take those lists with a grain of salt. As I said earlier, you simply ignore/dismiss anything that doesn't fit in with a rose-colored view of the U.S., which is why you have a "false pride."

The list didn't put Spain above the U.S. though. I said CANADA consistantly ranks above the U.S. As for my view of those countries, what I had said was there are several nations "as good as" and added the slash with "better than" to make a point. You seem to think the U.S. outshines every other nation, that there is no other nation that compares, and that's simply not true.

Here's a link for you to check out. It ranks countries according to a variety of criteria, so it's interesting to see how the U.S. fares according to specific criteria.

Here are the top Best Countries according to that study:

#1 Sweden

#2 Denmark

#3 Netherlands

#4 Finland

#5 Germany

#6 Canada

#7 Norway

#8 UK

#9 Switzerland

#10 Austria

A couple more results:

Quality of Life:

1 Ireland

2 Switzerland

3 Norway

4 Luxembourg

5 Sweden

6 Australia

7 Iceland

8 Italy

9 Denmark

10 Spain

Neither Canada nor the U.S. made the top ten on that one.

You'd think the U.S. would be #1 in Most Competitive Economy, but it's not.

1. Switzerland

2. Finland

3. Sweden

4. Denmark

5. Singapore

6. USA

7. Japan

8. Germany

9. Netherlands

10. UK

11. Hong Kong

12. Norway

13. Taiwan

14. Iceland

15. Israel

16. Canada

At any rate, it's an interesting site.

[Visionseeker]

Classic example: recklessly shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre may get you arrested for inciting a riot and endangering public safety.

Huh,

I wonder what shouting "WMDs in Iraq!" in the UN will net you?

[bush_cheney2004]

Huh,

I wonder what shouting "WMDs in Iraq!" in the UN will net you?

Nothing...that was only foreplay. The real "free speech" came later.

[Visionseeker]

Nothing...that was only foreplay. The real "free speech" came later.

Well, Colin Powell might disagree. For him it easily represented a dubious end to an illustrious career of public service.

As for the "speech" that followed, at a cost of 3774 and counting, the pronouncements are anything but free.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, Colin Powell might disagree. For him it easily represented a dubious end to an illustrious career of public service.

As for the "speech" that followed, at a cost of 3774 and counting, the pronouncements are anything but free.

But Gen Powell still delivered, didn't he?

Cost a lot more than that, but some in Canada get nervous before breaking 100 !!!

Freedom isn't free.

Edited September 12, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Visionseeker]

But Gen Powell still delivered, didn't he?

Yes, but at the cost of his reputation.

Cost a lot more than that, but some in Canada get nervous before breaking 100 !!!

Not sure what you mean unless you're referring to wounded, if so, I must agree.

As for Canadians getting nervous about breaking a hundred, our government has done a piss-poor job at explaining the mission and defining its objective (which is generally hard to do as a junior partner in a coalition). So it's hard to fault the public for getting twitchy about the only metric they can digest.

Freedom isn't free.

Indeed.