jbg Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 Jane Finch? Dont believe what you read here. Besides, have you ever been in Jane Finch corridor?Are you recommending I go in a spirit of friendship? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Peter F Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 Are you recommending I go in a spirit of friendship? I think he recommends going in a spirit of animosity. As a 5th or 6th generation WASP I can honestly say I have contributed nothing to Canada, beyond Taxes. Yet, not a soul has ever questioned my position as a Canadian. It seems there is a serious double standard at work in your mind. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
jbg Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 I think he recommends going in a spirit of animosity.You know d@mn well that I was asking if his recommendation was sarcastic. While Guyser and I agree on almost nothing we are cordial and debate ideas. You are a hater and a troll.As a 5th or 6th generation WASP I can honestly say I have contributed nothing to Canada, beyond Taxes.Yet, not a soul has ever questioned my position as a Canadian. It seems there is a serious double standard at work in your mind. What the h*** are you talking about? You know that I consider payment of taxes and keeping use of government services within reason part of the attributes of being a good citizen. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Peter F Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 You know d@mn well that I was asking if his recommendation was sarcastic. While Guyser and I agree on almost nothing we are cordial and debate ideas. You are a hater and a troll.What the h*** are you talking about? You know that I consider payment of taxes and keeping use of government services within reason part of the attributes of being a good citizen. I'm talking about my not contributing a damn thing to Canada and actually, now that you mention it, sucking cash from the government tit in the form of welfare and Pogy for many long years. Yet my citizenship has never been questioned or doubted. Why then the requirement for immigrants to 'contribute' but us non-deportables to not contribute? Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
jbg Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 I'm talking about my not contributing a damn thing to Canada and actually, now that you mention it, sucking cash from the government tit in the form of welfare and Pogy for many long years. Yet my citizenship has never been questioned or doubted. Why then the requirement for immigrants to 'contribute' but us non-deportables to not contribute? Not sure what "Pogy" is but I can see a basis in difference of duties for someone born here (the person being born not having much choice in the matter) and someone choosing to come. The way I see it is if a country such as Canada decides to be a little bit compassionate to their poor that doesn't mean that the poor of all lands have a right to Canadian generosity. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Not sure what "Pogy" is.... Wondered same thing...apparently "Pogey" is equivalent to "the dole", as in government assistance (specifically, employment insurance payments...renamed from unemployment insurance to help fragile egos?). http://home.comcast.net/~russ1980/stuff/Pogey.pdf Edited December 31, 2007 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Peter F Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Wondered same thing...apparently "Pogey" is equivalent to "the dole", as in government assistance (specifically, employment insurance payments...renamed from unemployment insurance to help fragile egos?).http://home.comcast.net/~russ1980/stuff/Pogey.pdf The very same. JBG: I can see a basis in difference of duties for someone born here (the person being born not having much choice in the matter) and someone choosing to come. The way I see it is if a country such as Canada decides to be a little bit compassionate to their poor that doesn't mean that the poor of all lands have a right to Canadian generosity.Thats where me and you differ. I believe that if I can access the cash If I meet certain requirements, then why shouldn't any Somali, Pakistani and/or Sikh? Perhaps the poor of all lands do not have a 'right' to Canadian generosity, but Canadian generosity should extend to as many people as it possibly can. I disagree completely with the contention that because I was born here that I should be entitled to more than others not born here. I already get citizenship no questions asked and an immigrant has to put in some time before being allowed citizenship oaths and swearing in ceremonies. What other rights and privleges should I be entitled to that others shouldn't? Edited December 31, 2007 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 ...Thats where me and you differ. I believe that if I can access the cash If I meet certain requirements, then why shouldn't any Somali, Pakistani and/or Sikh? Perhaps the poor of all lands do not have a 'right' to Canadian generosity, but Canadian generosity should extend to as many people as it possibly can. The answer lies within the origin of the disparaging term "pogey". The standard had long been utter disdain for government welfare for all but the true needy. To enter the country as an immigrant expecting "pogey" from the git 'go rubs many Canadians the wrong way. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Peter F Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) The answer lies within the origin of the disparaging term "pogey". The standard had long been utter disdain for government welfare for all but the true needy. To enter the country as an immigrant expecting "pogey" from the git 'go rubs many Canadians the wrong way. I understand that. My collecting pogey rubs many the wrong way also. I am questioning the apparent requirement of 'contributing' to justify citizenship. Edited December 31, 2007 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) I understand that. My collecting pogey rubs many the wrong way also. I am questioning the apparent requirement of 'contributing' to justify citizenship. OK....my bad. Viewing citizenship as a privilege instead of a birthright, we can certainly identify negative and positive "contributions". On balance, and unless you are a convicted felon, you have likely made a positive contribution on balance through various metrics. An immigrant can make such contributions over time, but not on day one. Edited December 31, 2007 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Peter F Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) On balance, and unless you are a convicted felon, you have likely made a positive contribution on balance through various metrics. An immigrant can make such contributions over time, but not on day one. Well, yes, since I am not a felon and pay taxes perhaps I may not be the anchor to Canada's progress that I have been passing myself off as. However, I, like many an immigrant, did indeed collect much from government largesse long before my alleged contributions. But lines must be drawn somewhere I suppose. I just don't like where JBG draws those lines. Contribution is neither here nor there and impossible to measure. So making that a lousy yardstick to determine citizenship. Edited December 31, 2007 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) ....But lines must be drawn somewhere I suppose. I just don't like where JBG draws those lines. Contribution is neither here nor there and impossible to measure. So making that a lousy yardstick to determine citizenship. It may be a lousy yardstick, but it is measurable. The privilege of citizenship also has responsibilities. For instance, and assuming you are able bodied, you could be subject to conscription. You also are subject to jury duty. Ditto many forms of taxes. Somebody has even enumerated a list of formal responsibilities with a bit more puffery: -to obey Canada's laws -to vote in the federal, provincial and municipal elections -to eliminate discrimination and injustice -to respect the rights of others -to respect public and private property -to support Canada's ideals, building the country we all share. Edited December 31, 2007 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Peter F Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 Somebody has even enumerated a list of formal responsibilities with a bit more puffery:-to obey Canada's laws -to vote in the federal, provincial and municipal elections -to eliminate discrimination and injustice -to respect the rights of others -to respect public and private property -to support Canada's ideals, building the country we all share. Goodness. I can barely cut 50% of that. I guess I will have to get some citizenship papers for somebody to burn. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
jbg Posted December 31, 2007 Report Posted December 31, 2007 Thats where me and you differ. I believe that if I can access the cash If I meet certain requirements, then why shouldn't any Somali, Pakistani and/or Sikh? Perhaps the poor of all lands do not have a 'right' to Canadian generosity, but Canadian generosity should extend to as many people as it possibly can.And who will fund that "Canadian generosity"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Peter F Posted January 1, 2008 Report Posted January 1, 2008 And who will fund that "Canadian generosity"? Americans, of course. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
jbg Posted January 1, 2008 Report Posted January 1, 2008 Americans, of course. LOL Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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