Land claims agreement worth $1.4 billion

[Leafless]

Deserving Cree or Cree rip off, especially with this sweetheart deal:

"If ratified in a referendum in October and approved by Parliament, it will see them take control of all policing, courts and social and economic development in their communities — and perhaps eventually form their own state within Canada."

Ha-ha-ha, if Quebec can't cut it, neither will the Cree be able to form on their own an independent productive society.

Another society similar to Quebec being forever subsidized and fed with a silver spoon by the federal government, also known as the (sucker) tax payers of Canada.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...2f298d1&k=86316

It is so gratifying to live in a communist country.

[mikedavid00]

It is so gratifying to live in a communist country.

When I heard about this I thought 'gee that's a lot of money'.

Just think of how much 1.4B really is. That could probably put 2 additional MRI treatment centers in each Canadian city from Halifax to Victoria.

I mean.. what land in North Quebec is entitled to 1.4 Billion??

It couldn't be the our gov't is using our tax dollars to buy votes?

[geoffrey]

You could buy more votes with a tax cut.

Hey if $1.4 buys out the Cree and they do everything on their own, then I'm ok with that. But why are we giving money to a 'nation' that we are going to continue to support financially?

If they want their own country, have at it, but I certainly don't want to foot the bill. And Quebec will go nuts if their Indians start declaring soverignty... though, perhaps that's a good thing.

[mikedavid00]

But why are we giving money to a 'nation'

Yeah mean,

A 'nation within a nation within a United Canada'

[scribblet]

You could buy more votes with a tax cut.

Hey if $1.4 buys out the Cree and they do everything on their own, then I'm ok with that. But why are we giving money to a 'nation' that we are going to continue to support financially?

If they want their own country, have at it, but I certainly don't want to foot the bill. And Quebec will go nuts if their Indians start declaring soverignty... though, perhaps that's a good thing.

I agree, if that's how they want it fine, buy them out once and for all - but NO MORE money.

[Leafless]

I mean.. what land in North Quebec is entitled to 1.4 Billion??

It couldn't be the our gov't is using our tax dollars to buy votes?

You mean another deal for Quebec, because there was also another deal reached in 2002 with the Quebec and the Cree with Quebec's provincial government for $3.6 billion over 50 years.

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1014993913

Actually the feds $1.4 billion deal goes back 1975 and a federal deal with PM Chretien at the helm but was stalled for years.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...16?hub=Politics

This latest federal $1.4 billion dollar deal appears to put the icing on the cake, to cover Cree concerns, relating to the previous Quebec $3.6 billion dollar deal over fifty years.

This seems to make it more than likely a closed deal for Quebec and future development of James Bay.

[Topaz]

I guess you could say that the invasion of N. America, by the Europeans, and the killing of thousands of First Nation people, they will always now be on the receiving line. Iraqi people will probably turn out like the N. American Indian, the US will be paying for years to come to the people. Would you call the people first here from Europe, guest or occupiers?? The law is on their side and unfortunately for us taxpayers, we'll be paying for years to come.

[geoffrey]

I did nothing against any Indian, living or dead. What the hell am I to blame for? People that live in a racist past are doomed to exist there forever. It's time everyone in Canada moves on.

Not one living white person is responsible for anything that happened because some white did it before. I don't see people holding the Spanish responsible for the actions of Cortez, nor do I see Germans paying billions to Israel every year. I don't see the Japanese giving the Chinese huge sums of money. I don't see the Russians paying for Stalin's oppression of the Ukrainians.

Yet we owe something to people that live above us?

I refuse to carry the burden of anyone's actions but my own. It's ridiculous. I won't pay for the actions of some individual that died centuries before I was born.

I come from a French Canadian background. Do all English people owe me something because "I" was here before them and they robbed my family of land and soverignty? I doubt it.

Get over it. I don't owe them anything.

[scribblet]

Get over it. I don't owe them anything.

I agree, but I don't see any gov't having the guts to do anything about it, and if they did, how would we handle the ensuing violence.

I think this works out to about 85,000 per man, woman and child. Watch though a few years from now they'll have their hands out again complaining about their so called third world status, and begging us for more hand outs so that they can heal their wounds or some other BS.

If they want self gov't fine, but this is it, be responsible and quit begging for more handouts.

[Riverwind]

I agree, but I don't see any gov't having the guts to do anything about it, and if they did, how would we handle the ensuing violence.

The trouble is the government has to give them something because of the nonsense which is entrenched in the constitution. Refusing to negotiate at all would likely lead to an unfavourable SCC ruling. That said, the government is not obligated to give natives whatever they demand - all that is required is a good faith attempt to negotiate.

[guyser]

It's time everyone in Canada moves on.

As much as we may not like it , until our Gov addresses the problem, left right or centre gov, we cannot move on.

A wrong needs to be righted.

Not one living white person is responsible for anything that happened because some white did it before

Death does not get anyone out of anything. Estates can and are sued for actions occuring before death all the time Geoffrey. I too thought like you, but I learned in years after that , well, we have to correct and give what we promised.

I know absolutely that if your family had a document that promised them something, then your family would be correct to go after it. Save the econ lesson, as my or your family would weigh the econ benefits of it and then see. But a huge group looking at millions of billions dont have that mindset.

... nor do I see Germans paying billions to Israel every year.

Well, look around as they in fact do. Simon Weisenthal and his cohorts have gone after tons of people and countries and companies for thier mis-appropriated funds, and rightly so.

And then there is this , timely since it hit the papers today (IIRC)... http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3387483,00.html

Yet we owe something to people that live above us?

G...above you? Come on man, thats not true and you know it.

Get over it. I don't owe them anything.

And you wont be given a pill , so relax.

You are right, but our Gov does , and it will benefit you and I if and when they do.

[Posit]

I agree, if that's how they want it fine, buy them out once and for all - but NO MORE money.

That was only ONE agreement that that the government failed to live up to. It is not a buy out OR a pay off. It is a legal settlement. For sure there will be more for the Cree as each one gets settled....just as there will be many more resolutions of illegal land thefts and misappropriations of funds.

At last check, Six Nations (comprising of only 22,000 members) has a claim for the misappropriation, theft and fraud of a single trust account worth in excess of $100 billion dollars. This does not included and land claims which would approach the same amount.

[BornAlbertan]

Why the hell should we give them 1 red cent (pun intended). We screwed their way of lives? Well, if you can't take personal responsibility for your lives (afterall, how can you blame someone from a few hundred years ago for you own alcoholism and other "admirable" traits. The Indians whitey first encountered were stong and proud...they would be ashamed of the Indians today regardless of what their self-pity declares.

Regardless, here is my solution (not seriously of course...but it is so off the wall it could just damn work!)

Give them some mineral devoid region of Canada where they cannot be exploited or tempted (or more likely screw themselves over....AGAIN), take away all modern ammenities (water, electricity, gas and any framed building and even health care) and spend that damn 1.4Billion in buffalo, and horses tell them to have at it, you have your lives back now stay the hell out and shut the hell up. Before white man they as a race achieved NOTHING. After white man only a handful achieved ANYTHING (but are often chastized for it) so they shouldn't be missing anything. They can go right back to the lives their ancestors had and pretend that ol' whitey wasn't even here...

Edited July 18, 2007 by BornAlbertan

[Leafless]

Why the hell should we give them 1 red cent (pun intended). We screwed their way of lives? Well, if you can't take personal responsibility for your lives (afterall, how can you blame someone from a few hundred years ago for you own alcoholism and other "admirable" traits. The Indians whitey first encountered were stong and proud...they would be ashamed of the Indians today regardless of what their self-pity declares.

Regardless, here is my solution (not seriously of course...but it is so off the wall it could just damn work!)

Give them some mineral devoid region of Canada where they cannot be exploited or tempted (or more likely screw themselves over....AGAIN), take away all modern ammenities (water, electricity, gas and any framed building and even health care) and spend that damn 1.4Billion in buffalo, and horses tell them to have at it, you have your lives back now stay the hell out and shut the hell up. Before white man they as a race achieved NOTHING. After white man only a handful achieved ANYTHING (but are often chastized for it) so they shouldn't be missing anything. They can go right back to the lives their ancestors had and pretend that ol' whitey wasn't even here...

But now they like the ways of the White man, especially Trudeau's 'Charter of right and Freedoms'.

Why have dog sleds when you can have snowmobiles, why have unstable canoes when you can have large aluminum craft with large outboard motors, why live in tents when the white man builds houses for you, etc. etc etc.

[guyser]

Give them some mineral devoid region of Canada where they cannot be exploited or tempted (or more likely screw themselves over....AGAIN), take away all modern ammenities (water, electricity, gas and any framed building and even health care) and spend that damn 1.4Billion in buffalo, and horses tell them to have at it, you have your lives back now stay the hell out and shut the hell up. Before white man they as a race achieved NOTHING. After white man only a handful achieved ANYTHING (but are often chastized for it) so they shouldn't be missing anything. They can go right back to the lives their ancestors had and pretend that ol' whitey wasn't even here...

But now they like the ways of the White man, especially Trudeau's 'Charter of right and Freedoms'.

Why have dog sleds when you can have snowmobiles, why have unstable canoes when you can have large aluminum craft with large outboard motors, why live in tents when the white man builds houses for you, etc. etc etc.

Oh I dont know, maybe taking away their land, moving whole villages, sending their kids away to schools far from home, you know things like that.

[Leafless]

Give them some mineral devoid region of Canada where they cannot be exploited or tempted (or more likely screw themselves over....AGAIN), take away all modern ammenities (water, electricity, gas and any framed building and even health care) and spend that damn 1.4Billion in buffalo, and horses tell them to have at it, you have your lives back now stay the hell out and shut the hell up. Before white man they as a race achieved NOTHING. After white man only a handful achieved ANYTHING (but are often chastized for it) so they shouldn't be missing anything. They can go right back to the lives their ancestors had and pretend that ol' whitey wasn't even here...

The post you quoted as part of what Leafless wrote, was in fact part of BornAlbertan's post.

[Leafless]

Oh I dont know, maybe taking away their land, moving whole villages, sending their kids away to schools far from home, you know things like that.

There is a name for what was done and is called "aggressive assimilation". But I agree with you and would have done what you seem to imply, nothing.

Natives have been treated generously and cost Canadians tax payers for 2006-2007:

"Federal Spending on Aboriginal People

The Government spends more than $9 billion1 each year to fund programs directed towards Aboriginal people.

Indian and Northern Affairs Canada provides about $6.5 billion, of which about 80 per cent is for basic, province-type services for First Nations on reserve (e.g. education, social services, income assistance), where the Government has primary responsibility.

Thirty-three other federal departments and agencies, the largest of which is Health Canada, with planned spending of about $2.1 billion, also provide a wide variety of programs for First Nations, Inuit and Métis.

Budget 2006 committed $150 million in 2006–07 and $300 million a year thereafter for a new approach to support priorities in education; women, children and families; and water and housing. In addition, the Government provided $300 million for off-reserve Aboriginal housing and $300 million for affordable housing in the territories, and announced $500 million to assist communities affected by the Mackenzie Gas Project. "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, 2006–07 Estimates, Report on Plans and Priorities.

Firstly, I think they should have sent the parents to school.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/aborigin...ialschools.html

[BornAlbertan]

OK...SO...paying for something generations ago to the ancestors of people who won't help themselves....should be akin to...say....garnishing the wages of Canadians of German descent to pay war reparations and settlements to the Jews.

Would you think that is fair? Because we are about as separated as that as far as responsibility goes.

I just have an incredibly hard time with people telling me the woes of Indians is because of actions taken so long ago...especially when there is a good chance those same people have never spent time on a reserve or actually spoken to anyone living on a reserve.

We are being skapegoated and exploited for something we have no responsibility for. There comes a time you have to stand up and take control of your own lives. The programs are there. Why don't more do it? Because it is just like the welfare system so why should they? "The government will raise taxes to pay me...and since I pay no taxes anyway who cares?! And I can work under the table and continue to buy by Playstations, weed, booze and still live a good life....and the government will cover my rent and food. What a steal of a deal!!!"

There needs to be more conditions on the money the government just throws out. 18 year old Indians getting big fat checks and then a free education if just wrong! I am still paying off student loans...never received anything from the "system"...that to me is discrimination. Not reparation.

[fellowtraveller]

I'm not used to seeing racism quite so overtly.

It is always illuminating when this topic comes up. I rarely learn anything about the actual situation, but I do learn something about my fellow citizens both white and brown. Unfortuantely what I learn is usually really ugly.

Edited July 20, 2007 by fellowtraveller

[geoffrey]

There has not been one racist comment posted in this thread from what I see, other than a huge chunk of change being given to people based purely on DNA.

[ScottSA]

I'm not used to seeing racism quite so overtly.

It is always illuminating when this topic comes up. I rarely learn anything about the actual situation, but I do learn something about my fellow citizens both white and brown. Unfortuantely what I learn is usually really ugly.

Here we are with the obligatory cries of "racism" everytime someone wants to stop handing out money based on race.

[jillwith3]

Land claims aside...this is what angers me the most of all the 'native affairs'. Example 1~ My husband's cousin is 1/4 native (You wouldn't even know it; she has blond hair and blue eyes.) When it was time for her to attend a post-secondary institution, she went and applied for her status card. (She also applied for one behind her father's back and he was quite angry with her for this.) Hence she received a free post-secondary education. She does not live on a reserve; she has her own license business and owns a beautiful house...easy to do at 28 years old when you don't have any student loans to pay back or taxes to pay. Example #2~ My mother's friend is also 1/4 native making her daughter 1/8 native. Her daughter will be attending a post-secondary institution in the next two years. You guessed it...gone to apply for that status card to get that free education. Must be nice to graduate from university or college free from debt. When does it end? I don't think that program is benefitting any FULL blooded native who lives on the reserve. They only ones that are benefitting from that are the 1/4, 1/8 and so on 'natives' who don't even live on the reserve and who, in my opinion, should live on the reserve if they want their native 'status'. Absolute bs! I suppose that in the event that any land claims or settlements are made, these people will also benefit? I certainly hope not...probably sitting at home just waiting to hear the good news. (Meanwhile, I am still paying back loans from my five years of univerity after five years!)

[Remiel]

I was looking at some of the indigenous people stuff over on Wikipedia the other day, after looking at a thread (maybe this one).

There is an opinion by some that the idea of blood quotum laws are reprehensible and barbaric because blood can never become " more pure " only " less " , and that such laws somehow encourage assimilation by such dilution.

However, the fact is that the genetic heritage of the people who lived here before the rest of the world invited themselves in will maintain itself or diminish at the same rate regardless of the legal status of their descendants.

I mean, would it not be just a little ridiculous to have a tribe full of people identifying themselves as Mohawks, for instance, if they had only 5% Mohawk blood, and the other 95% was a mix of English, Scottish, French, German and whatever else their ancestors fancied?

Edited July 23, 2007 by Remiel

[Posit]

Nope, not really. Mohawks are a nation. And just like Canada is being diluted by immigrants intermarrying with people who have been here for a long time, it doesn't change them being Canadians in anyway. While some of you may complain about the dilution, a Ukrainian descendant, or a Chinese descendant are every bit as much Canadian as are the English descendants.

Regaining land base, and control of their government has nothing to do with blood quantum. BQ is an colonial invention designed to remove status and ultimately claim over land so no one will "legally" (by Canadian definition) be around to contest the stolen land grabs.

[Remiel]

Are you saying that ethnicity has nothing to do with being indigenous?

I was not saying that they were any less Canadian, as Canadian is not an ethnicity.