Harper in Colombia

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/harper_visit_colombia

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be under pressure to make human rights a key talking point in his meeting with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe on Monday, although both men will be eager to avoid controversy as they seek to become the newest amigos in the hemisphere.

The prime minister arrived in Bogota as the sun was setting behind the hills surrounding the capital Sunday, without a word to reporters who accompanied him on the six-hour flight.

Harper will have to be careful about being too cozy with the Colombian president who is closer and closer to being implicated to the death squads.

As far a free trade goes, I don't think Canada pays duty on the cocaine we buy.

Edited July 16, 2007 by jdobbin

[M.Dancer]

Columbia does not have a president. They have a Mayor though..........

Now there's this south american country called Colombia......

[jdobbin]

Columbia does not have a president. They have a Mayor though..........

Now there's this south american country called Colombia......

I've asked for correction on the thread title.

And if we are going for correction on each post, it is South America. heh

You'll notice that Yahoo has made the same error.

http://ca.yahoo.com/

Edited July 16, 2007 by jdobbin

[noahbody]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be under pressure to make human rights a key talking point in his meeting

The government announced human rights was on the agenda a week earlier. Nice slant to the story though. Adds drama.

[jdobbin]

The government announced human rights was on the agenda a week earlier. Nice slant to the story though. Adds drama.

Since many human rights groups have spoken up today in advance of the meeting, it puts emphasis on the subject. The drama will be if Harper appears too cozy to a leader who may eventually be implicated in death squads.

[noahbody]

The government announced human rights was on the agenda a week earlier. Nice slant to the story though. Adds drama.

Since many human rights groups have spoken up today in advance of the meeting, it puts emphasis on the subject. The drama will be if Harper appears too cozy to a leader who may eventually be implicated in death squads.

The irony would be if Harper treates him like a guilty man when he hasn't been implicated, while discussing the topic of human rights.

[jdobbin]

The irony would be if Harper treates him like a guilty man when he hasn't been implicated, while discussing the topic of human rights.

On Sunday, most press reports were saying that Harper wished to avoid controversy.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...15?hub=Politics

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be under pressure to make human rights a key talking point in his meeting with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe on Monday, although both men will be eager to avoid controversy as they seek to become the newest amigos in the hemisphere.

The Canadian prime minister arrived in Bogota as the sun was setting behind the hills surrounding the capital Sunday, without a word to reporters who accompanied him on the six-hour flight.

But even before his six-day tour of South America and the Caribbean -- which includes stops in Colombia, Chile, Barbados and Haiti -- began, human rights groups in Canada and in the region began their campaign to derail the main agenda between the two leaders, who have agreed to begin negotiating a free trade deal in six months.

''We had the prime minister speak out before about human rights in China and Russia, so he must show in this trip that he is universally concerned about human rights, not just when there is a political convenience,'' said Alex Neve of Amnesty International Canada in anticipation of the trip.

I think much of the trip will indeed be measured by how forcefully Harper talks about human rights.

[Michael Bluth]

I think much of the trip will indeed be measured by how forcefully Harper talks about human rights.

Why? Because it's to the advantage of the political left?

If they make solid progress on trade then that will be a positive result for most Canadians.

[noahbody]

I think much of the trip will indeed be measured by how forcefully Harper talks about human rights.

That's no doubt how the Human Rights groups will measure the success. I do assume Harper will bring up the issue tactfully, as he should. Realistially, Canada first needs to first develop a relationship before it will have any influence human rights.

Will Human Rights groups say Harper didn't go far enough? Most likely. But that's their purpose. It's the same as asking environmental groups to judge the governments enviro plan.

Edited July 16, 2007 by noahbody

[Shakeyhands]

why Michael, because economics trump human rights?

I'm sure Harper will say something, he need not make a grandiose statment about it for a soundbite on the 6 o'clock news programs however.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Shakeyhands

[M.Dancer]

I can't wait till I hear how the environmentalists judge his trip.,....

[jdobbin]

Why? Because it's to the advantage of the political left?

If they make solid progress on trade then that will be a positive result for most Canadians.

If economics is the only deciding factor for the right then Harper would have said nothing on China and Russia.

It isn't enough to make economic gains. Colombia has major problems with people being killed for their political beliefs. That can't be overlooked in an attempt to avoid controversy.

[M.Dancer]

Why? Because it's to the advantage of the political left?

If they make solid progress on trade then that will be a positive result for most Canadians.

If economics is the only deciding factor for the right then Harper would have said nothing on China and Russia.

It isn't enough to make economic gains. Colombia has major problems with people being killed for their political beliefs. That can't be overlooked in an attempt to avoid controversy.

Yes sometimes those beliefs are the right to export cocaine, or the belief that cocaine is a right.

This is a nation where political opposition takes the form of guerilla paramilitaries, where death squads work for both sides and where the annual murder rate exceeds 30,000.

[ScottSA]

[i've asked for correction on the thread title.

Should the title be "Harper Embraces Deathsquads and Suxors in Columbia!11!!!"

[jdobbin]

That's no doubt how the Human Rights groups will measure the success. I do assume Harper will bring up the issue tactfully, as he should. Realistially, Canada first needs to first develop a relationship before it will have any influence human rights.

The issue of death squads has been a big one. I don't know how one brings that up tactfully.

And tactfulness is not how Harper addressed Russia and China. I think you have to be blunt about what is going on there.

If Canada, which does have a relationship, doesn't speak up in a clear unambiguous way, it does not serve the citizens of Canada or Colombia well.

Edited July 17, 2007 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Should the title be "Harper Embraces Deathsquads and Suxors in Columbia!11!!!"

I thought you were confined to the white race and anti-gay threads. Nice to see you get out for a change.

[jdobbin]

Yes sometimes those beliefs are the right to export cocaine, or the belief that cocaine is a right.

This is a nation where political opposition takes the form of guerilla paramilitaries, where death squads work for both sides and where the annual murder rate exceeds 30,000.

In 2004 demobilization of the paramilitaries was started. What is lacks is a legal framework to continue it on successfully. Canada and other nations must speak forcefully on the issue.

With accusations against the government swirling, several official and non-official meetings with U.S. delegations were cancelled. The Colombian president had to speak to the issue after this and it is still a concern as Harper visits today.

I found Colombia an odd choice for an official visit. If trade was the area that Harper wanted to address, he would have found a few other countries in the southern hemisphere amenable to that.

Still, if he speaks forcefully on the issue, it could have an impact.

[Michael Bluth]

If economics is the only deciding factor for the right then Harper would have said nothing on China and Russia.

It isn't enough to make economic gains. Colombia has major problems with people being killed for their political beliefs. That can't be overlooked in an attempt to avoid controversy.

Harper got pilloried in the press for focusing too much on rights and not enough on trade in China.

He won't make that mistake this time around.

[M.Dancer]

If economics is the only deciding factor for the right then Harper would have said nothing on China and Russia.

It isn't enough to make economic gains. Colombia has major problems with people being killed for their political beliefs. That can't be overlooked in an attempt to avoid controversy.

Harper got pilloried in the press for focusing too much on rights and not enough on trade in China.

He won't make that mistake this time around.

Although there is far less to lose being self righteous in Colombia....if a free trade aggreement fails between Canada Colombia and Peru, who outside the wonks would care?

[jdobbin]

Harper got pilloried in the press for focusing too much on rights and not enough on trade in China.

He won't make that mistake this time around.

Harper was questioned in the press because he didn't meet or cancelled various meetings with the Chinese without explanation. If it was about human rights, he certainly didn't make it very clear in those early months.

All of this was happening in the days leading up to Celil being taken to China and sentenced without Canada being informed.

[jdobbin]

Although there is far less to lose being self righteous in Colombia....if a free trade aggreement fails between Canada Colombia and Peru, who outside the wonks would care?

South America has a huge and growing population. It could mean significant jobs gains in both Canada and in those South American countries that sign on to trade agreements. I don't know if they will all be free trade agreements but any trade agreements will be good.

Canada just can't afford to ignore human rights or signs of failing democracy. That in itself is bad for business.

[M.Dancer]

Although there is far less to lose being self righteous in Colombia....if a free trade aggreement fails between Canada Colombia and Peru, who outside the wonks would care?

South America has a huge and growing population. It could mean significant jobs gains in both Canada and in those South American countries that sign on to trade agreements. I don't know if they will all be free trade agreements but any trade agreements will be good.

Canada just can't afford to ignore human rights or signs of failing democracy. That in itself is bad for business.

Brazil is big....colombia and peru are not.

[jdobbin]

Brazil is big....colombia and peru are not.

Colombia is the second largest country by population in South America and by my count, in the top 30 for world population. I'd say 45 million is a good size.

Peru has slightly less than Canada.

[Michael Bluth]

Harper was questioned in the press because he didn't meet or cancelled various meetings with the Chinese without explanation. If it was about human rights, he certainly didn't make it very clear in those early months.

Actually it was the Chinese not agreeing to meetings. Link

Discussions have been under way to try to arrange a bilateral meeting between Harper and Chinese President Hu Jintao. But some observers found it significant that, only days before the kick-off of the forum, no meeting had been confirmed yet.

"That's actually quite serious, because that means the Chinese want to tell us they're annoyed," said Michael Byers, the Canada Research Chair in global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia.

But good work on trying to make it look like Harper was the one avoiding the meetings.

[jdobbin]

Actually it was the Chinese not agreeing to meetings. Link

But good work on trying to make it look like Harper was the one avoiding the meetings.

You forget all this.

http://organharvestinvestigation.net/media...hina_puzzle.htm

The government has still not sent a cabinet minister to China more than eight months after winning power, according to Foreign Affairs officials. Several cabinet ministers have made plans to go, notified the Chinese government of their intentions, then abruptly cancelled their trips, to Beijing's puzzlement.

Natural Resources Minister Gary Lunn might travel to Beijing in November to attend a mining conference and a heavy oil conference. But even that visit is not confirmed yet, officials say. And Mr. Lunn is hardly the senior cabinet minister that China would expect Canada to send.

Even if that lack of a visit can be put down to the minority situation the Tories find themselves in, a spokesperson for Canadian business said the lack of communication is a concern because the Chinese place great importance on developing deep contacts over time.

"I would certainly counsel the government to schedule a visit by a senior minister at an early date," said Perrin Beatty, president of Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters. "Particularly in a country like China, it is important at a government-to-government level that it be demonstrated that there's an interest in managing relationships."

Mr. Beatty said reducing communications with China is a substantial risk for Canadian businesses because Beijing has overwhelming influence over who its corporations do business with.

Recently, Canadian business people and academics also expressed quiet concern when it emerged that Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay had not yet met with Chinese Ambassador Lu Shumin.

There was a thread months and months ago that was asking why the Tories had not met with the Chinese. And this was all before the Celil problems.