Republican Senator

[ScottSA]

I am gay and he went out of his way to cast people like me as the enemy of "the family". Little does he know how many people there are like me: single gay parent raising a couple of kids on his own. Yeah, we're such a threat to all that is good and decent and he is such a model citizen, cheating on his wife while paying cash for hookers and all.)

Does anyone NOT know you're a homosexual? You seem to take every opportunity to flounce about flaunting it in everyone's face.

Hey, everyone! Liam is a homosexual! Everybody please clap!

On top of that, you always manage to paint yourself as the victim of some imaginary oppression, even if it's only rhetorical. No one cares where you wet your whistle or in what hole...certainly not I. But since you're bringing up taking things personally, it's when homosexuals hang out a flag announcing that they like to prong the same sex, and that I, and more importantly my kids, have to be taught that it's a good and wholesome "lifestyle choice," that I object. In fact, I take it quite personally myself. So next time you feel the urge to announce, once again, that you're a single and offended homosexual father, remember that you're offending others when you do.

Oh, by the way, I'm a single father who likes to boink women. Did you need to know that? Can I get a medal too?

[jdobbin]

Little does he know how many people there are like me: single gay parent raising a couple of kids on his own. Yeah, we're such a threat to all that is good and decent and he is such a model citizen, cheating on his wife while paying cash for hookers and all.)

Watch the anti-gay commentary come out now.

Vitter's own words are what will harm him. He has always been black and white about what is moral. He certainly was with his commentary on Clinton.

[sunsettommy]

Some of David Vitters' ads.

It was David Vitter himself who used the words "family values" whenever he gave speeches.

Here's what Vitter had to say about moral failings.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070711...enation/3212734

But that doesn't answer the question of whether President Clinton should be impeached and removed from office because he is morally unfit to govern.

The writings of the Founding Fathers are very instructive on this issue. They are not cast in terms of political effectiveness at all but in terms of right and wrong -- moral fitness. Hamilton writes in the Federalists Papers (No. 65) that impeachable offenses are those that "proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust."

In considering impeachment, Vitter asserted, Congress had to judge Clinton on moral terms. Decrying the law professors' failure to see this, Vitter observed, "Is that the level of moral relatively [sic] and vacuousness we have come to?" If no "meaningful action" were to be taken against Clinton, Vitter wrote, "his leadership will only further drain any sense of values left to our political culture."

I am leery of anything from David Corn.

But the TV ads are damning.

Vitter has apparently failed to live what he preaches.

He should from this point one just shut up since he has no credibility to stand on.

Thanks for the reply.

[sunsettommy]

Senators need lovin' too.

With how many women?

giggle..... giggle..

[Liam]

Does anyone NOT know you're a homosexual? You seem to take every opportunity to flounce about flaunting it in everyone's face.

Hey, everyone! Liam is a homosexual! Everybody please clap!

On top of that, you always manage to paint yourself as the victim of some imaginary oppression, even if it's only rhetorical. No one cares where you wet your whistle or in what hole...certainly not I. But since you're bringing up taking things personally, it's when homosexuals hang out a flag announcing that they like to prong the same sex, and that I, and more importantly my kids, have to be taught that it's a good and wholesome "lifestyle choice," that I object. In fact, I take it quite personally myself. So next time you feel the urge to announce, once again, that you're a single and offended homosexual father, remember that you're offending others when you do.

Oh, by the way, I'm a single father who likes to boink women. Did you need to know that? Can I get a medal too?

I am sure there are many people who don't know I'm gay and many more who don't care. I merely provided that info with respect to this thread to add a basis to my position on Vitter's anti-family posturing.

Nope, I'm not a victim at all. I am not oppressed. I am an attorney, live in a gorgeous home, am well within the top 5% of wage earners in the US, am an active donor to political causes, have a wonderful group of friends, and two fantastic kids. I like being gay and couldn't imagine the sad, grey life I'd live if I was stuck in the straight world. Bad clothes, bad haircuts, terrible pot bellies. Yeesh, you can have all that and more.

What I object to is people who, like you, wish gay people would either just go away or accept the crumbs of inequality you want to dole out. I'm very comfortable, but that doesn't mean that social injustice doesn't bother me.

As I said, I only mentioned my being gay to explain why Vitter's comments, like those of countless homophobes, bug me so much. (For the record, I don't know who on this site knows my story, but, ScottSA, I'll consider you one who is, strangely, interested. Clearly, you do care where I whet my whistle, but I shan't mention it in your presence again.)

In terms of "lifestyle choice", if "lifestyle" is a choice, can you tell me when it was that you decided to be straight? Seriously, if orientation is a choice, then we each reached a point where we decided to go one way or another. If you think I reached that point and went one way. Tell me about your choice and how you decided you wouldn't be gay. ...Or not. I frankly could not care less about who you schtupp in the privacy of your home and it's fully within your rights to boast over a beer about the hot babe you bagged. Furthermore, it's fully within your rights to not like people like me. I wouldn't dream of asking you to change, you're more than welcome to co-exist in my world. Frankly, I don't give two sh*ts whether you or Vitter think I ought to co-exist in yours. I and people like me already live in your neighborhood. Get used to the idea that your kids will grow up in world more open than you've shown them.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Liam

[ScottSA]

Does anyone NOT know you're a homosexual? You seem to take every opportunity to flounce about flaunting it in everyone's face.

Hey, everyone! Liam is a homosexual! Everybody please clap!

On top of that, you always manage to paint yourself as the victim of some imaginary oppression, even if it's only rhetorical. No one cares where you wet your whistle or in what hole...certainly not I. But since you're bringing up taking things personally, it's when homosexuals hang out a flag announcing that they like to prong the same sex, and that I, and more importantly my kids, have to be taught that it's a good and wholesome "lifestyle choice," that I object. In fact, I take it quite personally myself. So next time you feel the urge to announce, once again, that you're a single and offended homosexual father, remember that you're offending others when you do.

Oh, by the way, I'm a single father who likes to boink women. Did you need to know that? Can I get a medal too?

I am sure there are many people who don't know I'm gay and many more who don't care. I merely provided that info with respect to this thread to add a basis to my position on Vitter's anti-family posturing.

Nope, I'm not a victim at all. I am not oppressed. I am an attorney, live in a gorgeous home, am well within the top 5% of wage earners in the US, am an active donor to political causes, have a wonderful group of friends, and two fantastic kids. I like being gay and couldn't imagine the sad, grey life I'd live if I was stuck in the straight world. Bad clothes, bad haircuts, terrible pot bellies. Yeesh, you can have all that and more.

What I object to is people who, like you, wish gay people would either just go away or accept the crumbs of inequality you want to dole out. I'm very comfortable, but that doesn't mean that social injustice doesn't bother me.

As I said, I only mentioned my being gay to explain why Vitter's comments, like those of countless homophobes, bug me so much. (For the record, I don't know who on this site knows my story, but, ScottSA, I'll consider you one who is, strangely, interested. Clearly, you do care where I whet my whistle, but I shan't mention it in your presence again.)

In terms of "lifestyle choice", if "lifestyle" is a choice, can you tell me when it was that you decided to be straight? Seriously, if orientation is a choice, then we each reached a point where we decided to go one way or another. If you think I reached that point and went one way. Tell me about your choice and how you decided you wouldn't be gay. ...Or not. I frankly could not care less about who you schtupp in the privacy of your home and it's fully within your rights to boast over a beer about the hot babe you bagged. Furthermore, it's fully within your rights to not like people like me. I wouldn't dream of asking you to change, you're more than welcome to co-exist in my world. Frankly, I don't give two sh*ts whether you or Vitter think I ought to co-exist in yours. I and people like me already live in your neighborhood. Get used to the idea that your kids will grow up in world more open than you've shown them.

Get used to the idea that you're wrong. Acceptance of the practise of homosexuality is an episodic event in the cyclical nature of civilization. It comes and goes, and mostly goes. Don't think, foolishly, that the sad state of morality in the west will ever be thus. I personally find homosexuals to be an insult to manhood.

Even so, I really don't care what you do in the privacy of your gorgeous and peachy house, but I do find it odd that you need to trumpet your bedroom antics on a public web board. I don't recall anyone else here making an issue of who they like to boink. Why do you feel the need?

[Sulaco]

I conceded the "hypocrisy point" at the outset of this thread. I just argue that it is human to be hypocritical. If we were to discount any normative statements made by "hypocrites" we'd be able to seek guidance from no one.

I would be superhuman for someone to never utter a hypocritical statement, I agree. Everyone is human. The problem I have is when someone takes an iron-clad stance on an issue, to be a warrior on some topic (and to demonize those who don't meet his or her standards) only to be later discovered to engaging in the very acts which stand in direct contradiction to his public persona.

I don't care if the guy is a Republican or a Democrat. It just so happens that this guy is another "family values" cretin who is anything but what he says. I'd feel the same if some liberal human rights activist was discovered to be profiting from sweat-shop child labor overseas. (Actually, though, I think Vitter has earned just a little bit more of my scorn since and I do take his statements quite personally. I am gay and he went out of his way to cast people like me as the enemy of "the family". Little does he know how many people there are like me: single gay parent raising a couple of kids on his own. Yeah, we're such a threat to all that is good and decent and he is such a model citizen, cheating on his wife while paying cash for hookers and all.)

Your homosexuality merely proves you have an extra axe to grind. I am not sure it speaks to whether his views on family values are right, wrong, correct, incorrect or irrelevant.

Would a liberal's profiteering from sweatshops undermine your view that sweatshops are not a rpoper way for business to order production?

The fact is that all in all you're just being snide. Vitter's failure's are no proof his views are invalid. (Though I do not dismiss that they may have some, albeit miniscule, effect on what we should think of his views).

Edited July 16, 2007 by Sulaco