Michael Moore's 'Sicko' Scrutinizes Canada's Healthcar

[Riverwind]

....please keep sending more patients down here....because we make that "choice" possible.

You are grossly exagerrating the significance of people seeking treatment in the US. 99% of people get the care they need in Canada - those that remain only go to the US because of the ridiculous ban on private clinics in the country - a ban that has been ruled unconstitutional. This ban would have been removed long ago if Canada was an island like Australia.

IOW - the Canadian system does not depend on access to the US medical system. That is yet another myth peddled by the Health industry in the US.

[SkyhookJackson]

Desperate people do desperate things. Wouldn't it be wonderful if our U.S. tax dollars went for health care instead of bombs?

They already do....see Medicare, Medicaid, and Department of Health and Human Services budgets.

And if we didn't engage in wars of choice on countries that were no threat to us we could afford universal health care. What is it? 275 million a day or thereabouts?

[bush_cheney2004]

You are grossly exagerrating the significance of people seeking treatment in the US. 99% of people get the care they need in Canada - those that remain only go to the US because of the ridiculous ban on private clinics in the country - a ban that has been ruled unconstitutional. This ban would have been removed long ago if Canada was an island like Australia.

The fundamental policy is not an exaggeration.....the excess capacity of the evil for-profit system right next door fills gaps in available provincial care, and has done so for years. Even the drugs that American seniors buy from Canadian distribution channels are underwritten by evil BigPharma in the US and Europe and their customers.

What began as a socialist-commie experiment in Saskatchewan has always had a back-up plan....private for-profit services.

Mama always paid in cash.

[Guest American Woman]

If anyone else has already posted this I apologize, but I decided to sit through the credits and they mention a site that Americans can go to in order to "marry a Canadian for their health insurance" and it's a real site!

http://hook-a-canuk.com/

[Riverwind]

The fundamental policy is not an exaggeration.....the excess capacity of the evil for-profit system right next door fills gaps in available provincial care, and has done so for years.

If that capacity was not there it would have been built in Canada. Using the US system to handle excess capacity is often a matter of convenience - not economics. For example, a woman was sent to Seattle for a complicated birth because all of the places in Vancouver were dealing with other mothers. There was capacity in Calgary but the trip to Seattle was shorter and better for the mother and family.

IOW - the Canadian system would require adjustments but it would work fine even if capacity in the US did not exist. You are peddling a myth.

[jdobbin]

Wow. This post, more than any other I've read on this site, illustrates what is wrong with America. I've always said the difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Dems want everyone to do well, Republicans only think of #1. BC2004's solution is to send the young people into Dubya's quagmire? Amazing.

It's funny how he keeps pumping the U.S. system and putting down the Canadian system. He barely replies to fellow Americans because what is he going to say? Fellow Americans will tell him the flaws of the prefect system he keep trumpeting.

[bush_cheney2004]

If that capacity was not there it would have been built in Canada.

But it is there because of the profit motive. As are the imaging labs, diagnostic labs, R&D, etc., ...even Canada's blood supply. Canada's existing two-tier system includes the USA and other nations.

Fast forward to proposed commie-care in the USA and increasing demands on capacity that is no longer rationed by cost and ability to pay. Canada will need to build that capacity after all.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's funny how he keeps pumping the U.S. system and putting down the Canadian system. He barely replies to fellow Americans because what is he going to say? Fellow Americans will tell him the flaws of the prefect system he keep trumpeting.

Bring it on....I am only one American with one point of view. Money talks....commie BS walks. Perfection is boring.

[Guest American Woman]

Bring it on....I am only one American with one point of view. Money talks....commie BS walks. Perfection is boring.

Gotta ask. Have you seen the movie?

[Riverwind]

Fast forward to propose commie-care in the USA and increasing demands on capacity that is no longer rationed by cost and ability to pay. Canada will need to build that capacity after all.

Building that capacity would be trivial and would not undermine the system. BTW - the Canadian system is driven by the profit motive. Doctors that work harder get paid more. Labs that offer better prices and service get the contracts from the government. The only thing that we don't have is HMOs denying treatments in order to increase their profits.

[bush_cheney2004]

Gotta ask. Have you seen the movie?

No....it's a Michael Moore film from the school of creative editing. Only Canada, Cuba, and North Korea have legal restrictions on private insurance / care. Is that in the movie?

[Guest American Woman]

....the Canadian system is driven by the profit motive. Doctors that work harder get paid more. Labs that offer better prices and service get the contracts from the government.

Along that line, I found it very interesting that doctors in England get paid more money for each patient that they get to stop smoking, etc.; in other words, for encouraging preventive measures.

[bush_cheney2004]

Building that capacity would be trivial and would not undermine the system. BTW - the Canadian system is driven by the profit motive. Doctors that work harder get paid more. Labs that offer better prices and service get the contracts from the government. The only thing that we don't have is HMOs denying treatments in order to increase their profits.

That's right...Canada does not have that profit-revenue layer. And guess what, 15% of US GDP counts on all of the bells and whistles, from Big Insurance to Big Pharma to the American Trial Lawyers Association chasing ambulances.

Provincial health care systems are not profit driven....they don't need to be as long as Canadian taxpayers foot the bill.

[Guest American Woman]

Gotta ask. Have you seen the movie?

No....it's a Michael Moore film from the school of creative editing. Only Canada, Cuba, and North Korea have legal restrictions on private insurance / care. Is that in the movie?

If you were to watch the movie, you'd find the answer to your question.

I can't say I agree with all that MM does or how he presents it, but facts are facts.

France, for example, has a 35 hour work week with a minimum of five weeks off; an extra week for a honeymoon the year you get married; a day off to move when necessary; and a government worker comes inot the home 4 hours a day to help when a new baby arrives. That on top of free healthcare.

MM brought three rescue workers from NYC 9-11 to Cuba for health care that they couldn't get and/or afford here. The inhaler one woman has to buy sells for $120 in the U.S., five cents in Cuba.

I could go on.

I don't like being made to feel defensive about my country and how "good" it is, but this movie definitely puts me in that mode.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't like being made to feel defensive about my country and how "good" it is, but this movie definitely puts me in that mode.

That's fine, but we are a nation of 300 million people. I fundamentally do not believe that health care is a right and I absolutely will not support a system that compromises individual choice for patients, providers, and markets. The USA already has a single payer system in Medicare (over 40 years old). Canada's system is easily bested by the French.

[jdobbin]

If you were to watch the movie, you'd find the answer to your question.

One doesn't look for more information when one already knows the answer.

It is an endless stream of anti-Canadian venom from someone who believes in the perfection of his party, his country, in his own superiority complex. It gets a little tiresome, don't you think?

[Guest American Woman]

That's fine, but we are a nation of 300 million people. I fundamentally do not believe that health care is a right and I absolutely will not support a system that compromises individual choice for patients, providers, and markets. The USA already has a single payer system in Medicare (over 40 years old). Canada's system is easily bested by the French.

So you don't see health care as a right. What about police protection? Fire protection? Education? And what does being a nation of 300 million people have to do with any of it?

[bush_cheney2004]

So you don't see health care as a right. What about police protection? Fire protection? Education? And what does being a nation of 300 million people have to do with any of it?

See the US Constitution for enumerated rights....police protection is not a right, nor is fire protection or education (depending on state of residence).

300 million people means that a one-size fits all solution will never do for such a diverse nation. I abhor the thought of a Canadian-style restriction on health care patients, providers, and markets most of all (e.g. Chaoulli v. Quebec) so that all may suffer equally. Egalitarian suffering is not what the "evil" USA is about.

[Guest American Woman]

But we do all have police protection, don't we? We all have to have free education provided, too, including special ed for special needs. We don't have to pay the police when we need their services, we don't have to pay for an education. So why should something as fundamentally necessary as healthcare not be provided? It really makes no sense.

As for our large population, I'm still not sure what that has to do with anything. Does a larger population mean we have different health needs as individuals than Canadians would have? Because I just don't see how the total number would affect individual needs.

[bush_cheney2004]

But we do all have police protection, don't we? We all have to have free education provided, too, including special ed for special needs. We don't have to pay the police when we need their services, we don't have to pay for an education. So why should something as fundamentally necessary as healthcare not be provided? It really makes no sense.

As for our large population, I'm still not sure what that has to do with anything. Does a larger population mean we have different health needs as individuals than Canadians would have? Because I just don't see how the total number would affect individual needs.

No, we don't all have police protection, and certainly not the same level of police protection. Ditto firefighting and education. It depends on the local tax base and economic vitality.

FYI...health care is not a "right" in Canada either, only access to a limited set of procedures.

[Guest American Woman]

But we do all have police protection, don't we? We all have to have free education provided, too, including special ed for special needs. We don't have to pay the police when we need their services, we don't have to pay for an education. So why should something as fundamentally necessary as healthcare not be provided? It really makes no sense.

As for our large population, I'm still not sure what that has to do with anything. Does a larger population mean we have different health needs as individuals than Canadians would have? Because I just don't see how the total number would affect individual needs.

No, we don't all have police protection, and certainly not the same level of police protection. Ditto firefighting and education. It depends on the local tax base and economic vitality.

FYI...health care is not a "right" in Canada either, only access to a limited set of procedures.

If we don't all have police protection, that's a new one on me! Could you tell me where there is no protection available so I can be sure to stay away?? As for "the same level," that's not the issue. Certainly every town in every nation that provides healthcare doesn't provide "the same level of care" any more than your family clinic has the same level of care as provided by Mayo, for example.

As for health care being a "right" in Canada, since it's available to everyone and no one can be turned away, it's basically a right, so I'm not going to play word games.

[bush_cheney2004]

One doesn't look for more information when one already knows the answer.

It is an endless stream of anti-Canadian venom from someone who believes in the perfection of his party, his country, in his own superiority complex. It gets a little tiresome, don't you think?

You got no game...so let the personal attacks fly dobbin. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

[bush_cheney2004]

If we don't all have police protection, that's a new one on me! Could you tell me where there is no protection available so I can be sure to stay away?? As for "the same level," that's not the issue. Certainly every town in every nation that provides healthcare doesn't provide "the same level of care" any more than your family clinic has the same level of care as provided by Mayo, for example.

As for health care being a "right" in Canada, since it's available to everyone and no one can be turned away, it's basically a right, so I'm not going to play word games.

But it is the issue...level of service and choice is at the crux of this argument. Your definition of a "right" is very...ummm....liberal. I guess when Chretien/Martin cut transfers to the provinces to balance the budget they were only adjusting Canadian "rights"...LOL!

BTW, the CHA began mostly at the provincial level when Saskatchewan started the ball rolling in 1947....doctors striked against these new found "rights".

[jdobbin]

You got no game...so let the personal attacks fly dobbin. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Just observing your endless stream of anti-Canadian commentary. It really is all you do.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just observing your endless stream of anti-Canadian commentary. It really is all you do.

Do you have anything to offer to this thread, or is your specialty deflecting any criticism of Canada?