Floods are judgment on society, say bishops

[cybercoma]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/nflood201.xml

While those who have been affected by the storms are innocent victims, the bishops argue controversially that the flooding is a result of Western civilisation's decision to ignore biblical teaching.

How can anyone in this day and age believe that there is an old man in a robe controlling the weather?

How can anyone in good conscience dishonour the lives of innocent people by saying they died at the hand of god because the government has passed "pro-gay legislation"?

This is disgusting and disrespectful to say that innocent people have died because of an advancing moral zeitgeist in spite of religious doctrine. These bishops should be disgusted with themselves.

[margrace]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/nflood201.xml

While those who have been affected by the storms are innocent victims, the bishops argue controversially that the flooding is a result of Western civilisation's decision to ignore biblical teaching.

How can anyone in this day and age believe that there is an old man in a robe controlling the weather?

How can anyone in good conscience dishonour the lives of innocent people by saying they died at the hand of god because the government has passed "pro-gay legislation"?

This is disgusting and disrespectful to say that innocent people have died because of an advancing moral zeitgeist in spite of religious doctrine. These bishops should be disgusted with themselves.

At a young man's funeral recently I heard the minister say. People ask why did God let this happen, God did not let this happen, he is as upset as you are, after all he did give us free choice.

[ScottSA]

Seems to me the immigration problems that are about to punch us in the face is retribution enough as a result of relativistic morality. We'll actually begin to see a tide shift toward certain aspects of Islam in the not too distant future precisely because of the sort of social engineering that governments and certain segments of the supermarket churches are allowing. You simply can't go against hegemonic society and expect people to live with it for very long without them becoming attracted to a hard line in opposition to it. People may mewl along in grudging acquiescence of pro-fag policies for a time, but deep down I'd say an overwhelming majority are just waiting for something or someone strong to stand up and say "enough."

[Liam]

Well, Texas has been getting terrible rains and floods. They gave us Bush. I think the Bishop is on to something.

[margrace]

Well, Texas has been getting terrible rains and floods. They gave us Bush. I think the Bishop is on to something.

You may be right. there is a book called "Messages from Mary" written in Texas and telling of all the awful flood and storms to come. I think it was writen in the 80's

[geoffrey]

You may be right. there is a book called "Messages from Mary" written in Texas and telling of all the awful flood and storms to come. I think it was writen in the 80's

There is 100 other books that got predictions wrong. Eventually, some wacko is likely to be right.

[BC_chick]

Funniest was Katrina (well, not funny, but people's perceptions thereof)...

A priest said it was because the annual gay-event (some parade) was about to take place.

Imams were saying it was because of America's presence in Iraq.

And I can't remember what some Rabbi said exactly, but it had to do with God punishing America for the Gaza withdrawal.

Go figure.

[cybercoma]

Seems to me the immigration problems that are about to punch us in the face is retribution enough as a result of relativistic morality. We'll actually begin to see a tide shift toward certain aspects of Islam in the not too distant future precisely because of the sort of social engineering that governments and certain segments of the supermarket churches are allowing. You simply can't go against hegemonic society and expect people to live with it for very long without them becoming attracted to a hard line in opposition to it. People may mewl along in grudging acquiescence of pro-fag policies for a time, but deep down I'd say an overwhelming majority are just waiting for something or someone strong to stand up and say "enough."

Or they'll sit back and say innocent people have been killed by God because of "pro-fag" policies...

[August1991]

Seems to me the immigration problems that are about to punch us in the face is retribution enough as a result of relativistic morality. We'll actually begin to see a tide shift toward certain aspects of Islam in the not too distant future precisely because of the sort of social engineering that governments and certain segments of the supermarket churches are allowing. You simply can't go against hegemonic society and expect people to live with it for very long without them becoming attracted to a hard line in opposition to it. People may mewl along in grudging acquiescence of pro-fag policies for a time, but deep down I'd say an overwhelming majority are just waiting for something or someone strong to stand up and say "enough."

Uh, can you please run that argument by me again?

[ScottSA]

Seems to me the immigration problems that are about to punch us in the face is retribution enough as a result of relativistic morality. We'll actually begin to see a tide shift toward certain aspects of Islam in the not too distant future precisely because of the sort of social engineering that governments and certain segments of the supermarket churches are allowing. You simply can't go against hegemonic society and expect people to live with it for very long without them becoming attracted to a hard line in opposition to it. People may mewl along in grudging acquiescence of pro-fag policies for a time, but deep down I'd say an overwhelming majority are just waiting for something or someone strong to stand up and say "enough."

Uh, can you please run that argument by me again?

Nope.

[cybercoma]

Thomas Sutcliffe: When is a bishop like a suicide bomber?

Published: 03 July 2007

On the face of it, the Bishop of Carlisle and the young man who staggered blazing from that Jeep at Glasgow Airport on Saturday afternoon don't have a lot in common. The Right Reverend Graham Dow is a grey-haired man with a twinkling smile, rarely armed with anything more lethal than a crozier.

That wannabe martyr - his 72 expectant virgins currently tapping their fingers impatiently in Paradise - had a head wreathed in fire and a Molotov cocktail in his hand. The Bishop of Carlisle is a diocesan bishop in the Church of England, not a sect commonly associated with acts of terror, while the as-yet-unnamed jihadi is, one guesses, an adherent of Wahabi Islam, a sect which very much is. And yet, on a spiritual level, it seems that they do share one thing. They both believe in a vindictive God.

We already know how this belief was translated into action in the case of that young man at Glasgow Airport. He was prepared to incinerate young children and women and Muslims - anybody, frankly, who was unlucky enough to be on the other side of the entrance doors when he crashed through them. In the infamous words of a Christian zealot - "Kill them all, God will know his own".

The Bishop of Carlisle's expression of retribution took a much milder form: he expressed the view that the recent floods in the north of England were a sign of God's displeasure, not only at our environmental fecklessness but also at our wilful refusal, as a society, to discriminate against homosexuals.

"This is a strong and definite judgement because the world has been arrogant in going its own way," he said. "We are reaping the consequences of our moral degradation."

Some of us are reaping it a lot more directly than others, of course. Take Ryan Parry, a Sheffield schoolboy who was drowned last week. Or Michael Barnett, who got his foot stuck in a drain in Hull and succumbed after a four-hour battle to save him. Quite why these two people, and their grieving families, should have been singled out to bear the brunt of God's judgement isn't clear - and by yesterday afternoon, the Bishop's spokesman was busily back-pedalling. But he didn't explain away the Bishop's remark that the problem with "environmental judgement is that it is indiscriminate".

The logic of this seems to suggest that God is prepared to kill innocent people in order to get his message across. And if the Bishop is right, it isn't just us that God is disappointed with. He's furious with the people of Pakistan, where serious flooding has left 900,000 homeless, and Afghanistan, where 80 have died in recent storms, and Kansas and Texas, too, where floods have devastated communities and left people homeless. Then again, with a killer this "indiscriminate" about collateral damage, only a bishop could be sure what the message is.

Of course, there are important differences between the bishop and the Glasgow attacker. The bishop restricts himself to condoning the actions of a terrorist God, while the human fireball appointed himself as a direct tool of divine wrath. It's hardly a distinction to be sneezed at in these dangerous times. But it's not quite enough to quell the sense that the bishop finds himself in a distant intellectual kinship with the suicide bomber - both worshippers of a God who communicates through the deaths of innocents.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnist...icle2730465.ece

Is it a fair assessment to say this bishop justifying the death of innocent people is the same thinking as a suicide bomber goes through when they believe they're acting as a tool of God?

[ScottSA]

Thomas Sutcliffe: When is a bishop like a suicide bomber?

Published: 03 July 2007

On the face of it, the Bishop of Carlisle and the young man who staggered blazing from that Jeep at Glasgow Airport on Saturday afternoon don't have a lot in common. The Right Reverend Graham Dow is a grey-haired man with a twinkling smile, rarely armed with anything more lethal than a crozier.

That wannabe martyr - his 72 expectant virgins currently tapping their fingers impatiently in Paradise - had a head wreathed in fire and a Molotov cocktail in his hand. The Bishop of Carlisle is a diocesan bishop in the Church of England, not a sect commonly associated with acts of terror, while the as-yet-unnamed jihadi is, one guesses, an adherent of Wahabi Islam, a sect which very much is. And yet, on a spiritual level, it seems that they do share one thing. They both believe in a vindictive God.

We already know how this belief was translated into action in the case of that young man at Glasgow Airport. He was prepared to incinerate young children and women and Muslims - anybody, frankly, who was unlucky enough to be on the other side of the entrance doors when he crashed through them. In the infamous words of a Christian zealot - "Kill them all, God will know his own".

The Bishop of Carlisle's expression of retribution took a much milder form: he expressed the view that the recent floods in the north of England were a sign of God's displeasure, not only at our environmental fecklessness but also at our wilful refusal, as a society, to discriminate against homosexuals.

"This is a strong and definite judgement because the world has been arrogant in going its own way," he said. "We are reaping the consequences of our moral degradation."

Some of us are reaping it a lot more directly than others, of course. Take Ryan Parry, a Sheffield schoolboy who was drowned last week. Or Michael Barnett, who got his foot stuck in a drain in Hull and succumbed after a four-hour battle to save him. Quite why these two people, and their grieving families, should have been singled out to bear the brunt of God's judgement isn't clear - and by yesterday afternoon, the Bishop's spokesman was busily back-pedalling. But he didn't explain away the Bishop's remark that the problem with "environmental judgement is that it is indiscriminate".

The logic of this seems to suggest that God is prepared to kill innocent people in order to get his message across. And if the Bishop is right, it isn't just us that God is disappointed with. He's furious with the people of Pakistan, where serious flooding has left 900,000 homeless, and Afghanistan, where 80 have died in recent storms, and Kansas and Texas, too, where floods have devastated communities and left people homeless. Then again, with a killer this "indiscriminate" about collateral damage, only a bishop could be sure what the message is.

Of course, there are important differences between the bishop and the Glasgow attacker. The bishop restricts himself to condoning the actions of a terrorist God, while the human fireball appointed himself as a direct tool of divine wrath. It's hardly a distinction to be sneezed at in these dangerous times. But it's not quite enough to quell the sense that the bishop finds himself in a distant intellectual kinship with the suicide bomber - both worshippers of a God who communicates through the deaths of innocents.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnist...icle2730465.ece

Is it a fair assessment to say this bishop justifying the death of innocent people is the same thinking as a suicide bomber goes through when they believe they're acting as a tool of God?

What idiotic relativism. Is this guy trying to write comedy?

[cybercoma]

1 vote for idiotic relativism

Anyone else?

[jbg]

How can anyone in this day and age believe that there is an old man in a robe controlling the weather?

How can anyone in good conscience dishonour the lives of innocent people by saying they died at the hand of god because the government has passed "pro-gay legislation"?

This is disgusting and disrespectful to say that innocent people have died because of an advancing moral zeitgeist in spite of religious doctrine. These bishops should be disgusted with themselves.

Judaism does not maintain that G-d controls the weather. We maintain that it is not for us to speculate on any reason or design G-d has in his/her actions.