Angry conservatives float idea for new party

[Leafless]

"One tiny, loose-knit group, populated in part by former diehard Reform party supporters, is even testing the idea of starting a new party on the principles of less government, lower taxes, greater accountability of MPs and judges, and an end to "enforced" bilingualism and multiculturalism."

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I know how the Ottawa Citizen must love printing, anti-Liberal, anti-state-ism articles.

"One tiny loose knit group", "diehard Reform party supporters", ha-ha-ha-ha, what bias.

I have never heard one word out of the Ottawa Citizen denouncing the 'Bloc' as a federal party.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...76-fe4dd79b43dd

Well, I hope now this proposed party can provide Canadians with the type of representation Canadians deserve.

[stignasty]

Well, I hope now this proposed party can provide Canadians with the type of representation Canadians deserve.

It's deja vu time. . .

A new party can spring up, split the conservative vote and we can have 13 more years of Liberal rule.

[sharkman]

Well, I hope now this proposed party can provide Canadians with the type of representation Canadians deserve.

It's deja vu time. . .

A new party can spring up, split the conservative vote and we can have 13 more years of Liberal rule.

If a tiny loose knit group beats the million to one odds to form a right wing party, it would only fly in Alberta where conservatives regularly get landslides. No worries.

[jdobbin]

If a tiny loose knit group beats the million to one odds to form a right wing party, it would only fly in Alberta where conservatives regularly get landslides. No worries.

Same dismissive talk about the Reform party reduced the PCs to two seats.

[geoffrey]

Same dismissive talk about the Reform party reduced the PCs to two seats.

Same dismissive talk that hasn't elected a Liberal in Calgary since the 50's and as you said, effectively dismissed the PC's from the province. No party in Canada 'gets' Alberta. It's time we pull a Quebec and start looking after our own interests, exclusively. We are wasting our time trying to cooperate with the rest of Canada, they just simply don't get it.

[Guest chilipeppers]

That is coming from freedominion which mostly consists of a few radicals who seem to be stuck on two topics, anti abortion and homosexuals. Those loonytunes are not representative of the CPC anymore than I would hope that the radical rabble is not representative of the NDP.

[geoffrey]

That is coming from freedominion which mostly consists of a few radicals who seem to be stuck on two topics, anti abortion and homosexuals. Those loonytunes are not representative of the CPC anymore than I would hope that the radical rabble is not representative of the NDP.

I think lots of CPC supporters pretend that the dissent is merely in the anti-gay, anti-abortion ranks.

I can tell you that's simply not true. The business community that has backed the CPC is highly skeptical now (Flaherty is a pure ideologue on the economy, he has no clue how business really works). All the business leaders that expected some pro-business changes or at least some tax cuts were very disappointed by Harper... government is growing at a fantastic rate.

The CPC wins by getting the pro-business middle class voters from the Liberals. Essientially, Harper has told them that either way you vote, your not getting any more tax cuts or breaks for average income earners. So they revert to the more stomach-able Liberal social agenda.

The CPC needs to win big on the economy in order to ever even think of winning a majority. So far, they have been massive failures on producing anything enterprising on that front. A transfer of a tax cut from income to GST... whooop-de-do. Taxing income trusts to decrease Canadian productivity, pretty weak. Attempting to limit Canadian companies ability to expand abroad... only to have it reverse when industry told Flaherty that he really has no idea what he's doing (and he doesn't).

Not winning an election with that record on your biggest area for growth.

These are not at all anti-gay, anti-abortion issues. These are major issues at the core of the CPC constitutancy.

[jdobbin]

Same dismissive talk that hasn't elected a Liberal in Calgary since the 50's and as you said, effectively dismissed the PC's from the province. No party in Canada 'gets' Alberta. It's time we pull a Quebec and start looking after our own interests, exclusively. We are wasting our time trying to cooperate with the rest of Canada, they just simply don't get it.

I've seen no strong movement to abandoning Canada in Alberta. The driving forces behind it certainly isn't coming from the provincial PCs. I haven't even seen a commitment to doing even the rudimentary stuff such as creating a provincial police force.

[B. Max]

That is coming from freedominion which mostly consists of a few radicals who seem to be stuck on two topics, anti abortion and homosexuals. Those loonytunes are not representative of the CPC anymore than I would hope that the radical rabble is not representative of the NDP.

The looney tunes are the red Tories, who as the they did in the Mulroney era hijacked the party and ran it into the ground and ended up with two seats. They have been selling out the base and if they keep going the same way will be eliminated again. The polls are starting to trend that way. I don't see restarting reform as any solution this time around and more and more westerners will be coming to the same conclusion.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/klaus051707.htm

[speaker]

The Reform Party was based on the ideals of a pretty good segment of western Canada. It occurred because the progressive element of the Conservative party got sucked into the party line and the people who backed the progressives got edged out. When Reform was stalled by electoral predjudice in the East the reformers got impatient, got a pretty good deal from the Conservatives, and began watching their ideals go down the drain as they did with the progressives.

Maybe this time they will hang in there. It would be nice to see a party maintain its principles rather than devolve into another liberal or conservative old boy network where the major difference is in who gets the slush funds.

[geoffrey]

I've seen no strong movement to abandoning Canada in Alberta. The driving forces behind it certainly isn't coming from the provincial PCs. I haven't even seen a commitment to doing even the rudimentary stuff such as creating a provincial police force.

Morton finished second on the first ballot of the leadership race, despite all the Liberals in the province voting in the contest. He's a provincial police force, seperate pension plan type of guy. He was Harper's buddy in the firewall letter.

I think there is alot of Albertans that would endorse the movement if it had a face. Out of my political interested friends (a few PC's, tons of Liberals, a couple NDP), there is a solid handful that are interested in exploring increased autonomy at the very least, if not seperation.

One thing that would win in Alberta is an autonomist agenda. If you ask a group of 100 Albertans if they wanted less Ottawa in their affairs, 98 of them would say yes. This is profound distrust of government here, especially if it's from over in that mysterious land of Ontario.

[jdobbin]

Morton finished second on the first ballot of the leadership race, despite all the Liberals in the province voting in the contest. He's a provincial police force, seperate pension plan type of guy. He was Harper's buddy in the firewall letter.

I think there is alot of Albertans that would endorse the movement if it had a face. Out of my political interested friends (a few PC's, tons of Liberals, a couple NDP), there is a solid handful that are interested in exploring increased autonomy at the very least, if not seperation.

One thing that would win in Alberta is an autonomist agenda. If you ask a group of 100 Albertans if they wanted less Ottawa in their affairs, 98 of them would say yes. This is profound distrust of government here, especially if it's from over in that mysterious land of Ontario.

The PCs in Alberta can expect to see even more people to re-direct the party if all it takes is $10 or $20 to do it.

Morton's approach doesn't seem to resonate with the rest of the PCs in regards to a separate police force.

As far as anti-government Albertans, the latest polls in the Globe and Mail today show that Albertans support federal institutions such as the post office, the CBC and the RCMP.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

[Canuck E Stan]

As far as anti-government Albertans, the latest polls in the Globe and Mail today show that Albertans support federal institutions such as the post office, the CBC and the RCMP.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

According to the link the poll shows how 1000 people in Canada feel about Federal institutions, and how Quebecors feel about them. I couldn't find any reference in the article about how Albertans as a group feel.

[jdobbin]

According to the link the poll shows how 1000 people in Canada feel about Federal institutions, and how Quebecors feel about them. I couldn't find any reference in the article about how Albertans as a group feel.

Probably because they are in the graphs that are in the newspaper itself.

[Canuck E Stan]

According to the link the poll shows how 1000 people in Canada feel about Federal institutions, and how Quebecors feel about them. I couldn't find any reference in the article about how Albertans as a group feel.

Probably because they are in the graphs that are in the newspaper itself.

Pointless providing a link that doesn't support your statement.

[jdobbin]

Pointless providing a link that doesn't support your statement.

I think I can safely say that a majority of Albertans support the military, the RCMP and the Post Office. Any anomaly from overall Canadian numbers would have been noted. Only Quebec stood out and even there, a majority supported all Federal institutions.

[Canuck E Stan]

As far as anti-government Albertans, the latest polls in the Globe and Mail today show that Albertans support federal institutions such as the post office, the CBC and the RCMP.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

I'm just trying to figure out from your statement where anti-government Albertans and trusting particular Federal institutions are somehow related.

I'm sure Separatists in Quebec can still trust particlar Federal institutions without being pro-government.

[jdobbin]

I'm just trying to figure out from your statement where anti-government Albertans and trusting particular Federal institutions are somehow related.

I'm sure Separatists in Quebec can still trust particlar Federal institutions without being pro-government.

I'm not sure they can but you're welcome to believe that.

[Canuck E Stan]

I'm just trying to figure out from your statement where anti-government Albertans and trusting particular Federal institutions are somehow related.

I'm sure Separatists in Quebec can still trust particlar Federal institutions without being pro-government.

I'm not sure they can but you're welcome to believe that.

You seem to think anti-government Albertans can.

[jdobbin]

You seem to think anti-government Albertans can.

I don't believe Albertan really are anti-government.

[geoffrey]

I think I can safely say that a majority of Albertans support the military, the RCMP and the Post Office. Any anomaly from overall Canadian numbers would have been noted. Only Quebec stood out and even there, a majority supported all Federal institutions.

I support all of those institutions, I also happen to believe our standard of living would be considerably higher without the RoC holding us back economically through a ridiculous welfare program for the Maritimes/Quebec and undue influence from Ottawa on provincial areas of power like health care and education.

My life would be better apart from Canada as an Albertan. That's all it takes for me to endorse such a move. I also happen to think that nearly everyone in Alberta would be better off as well.

[Michael Bluth]

Morton finished second on the first ballot of the leadership race, despite all the Liberals in the province voting in the contest. He's a provincial police force, seperate pension plan type of guy. He was Harper's buddy in the firewall letter.

I think there is alot of Albertans that would endorse the movement if it had a face. Out of my political interested friends (a few PC's, tons of Liberals, a couple NDP), there is a solid handful that are interested in exploring increased autonomy at the very least, if not seperation.

The Alberta Alliance is the face of that movement.

The provincial PCs are in serious trouble in the 2008 election.

They are going to have to fend of the Alliance on their right in rural Alberta and the Liberals from their left in the cities.

The byelection for Ralph's riding, Calgary Elbow, is being held on June 12th. It's pretty sad, but the PCs are expecting to lose. Not a good sign for the party.

[geoffrey]

The byelection for Ralph's riding, Calgary Elbow, is being held on June 12th. It's pretty sad, but the PCs are expecting to lose. Not a good sign for the party.

I'm from the PC side of things... the only thing I like about the Alliance is the autonomy, their outdated thinking on social issues is such a turn off in the cities...

I like the chances of Brian Heninger though... Calgary Elbow is as rich as it gets, these are the oil execs. Do they really want to bite the hand that's fed them so long?

The Alliance would be a very successful party if they droped the anti-gay, anti-abortion attitude. No one cares anymore, in the cities at least. Unfortunately, too many rural hicks (not all rural people are hicks) still control alot of the politics out here, for now.

[jdobbin]

I support all of those institutions, I also happen to believe our standard of living would be considerably higher without the RoC holding us back economically through a ridiculous welfare program for the Maritimes/Quebec and undue influence from Ottawa on provincial areas of power like health care and education.

My life would be better apart from Canada as an Albertan. That's all it takes for me to endorse such a move. I also happen to think that nearly everyone in Alberta would be better off as well.

All that may be true but I see no evidence that you or anyone else in Alberta is really prepared to do anything to create a separatist party to fulfill the goals you say would make things better.

[Michael Bluth]

I'm from the PC side of things... the only thing I like about the Alliance is the autonomy, their outdated thinking on social issues is such a turn off in the cities...

The Alliance would be a very successful party if they droped the anti-gay, anti-abortion attitude. No one cares anymore, in the cities at least. Unfortunately, too many rural hicks (not all rural people are hicks) still control alot of the politics out here, for now.

There is the difficulty for the PCs.

There are enough of the rural voters that are going to tear the party apart.

I think Calgary Elbow is very likely to go Liberal. Many of the new influx is more liberal than the average Alberta voter.