Tory Minister Racks Up $150,000

[Michael Bluth]

He also campaigned on MPs having more say and more independence. Is that the way it really is?

That was Paul Martin. Try and get those facts straight.

[Who's Doing What?]

So Van Loan says Liberals of the past have done worse(spent more) than the CPC's of today.

Now why does that sound familiar?

Uh, cause it's true?

That isn't why it sounds familiar. Try to keep up. It is familiar because it is the only answer the CPC has for any of their gaffs, screw ups or whatever they are being called to account for. It is quite lame and tiresome. The CPC have been in power for well over a year now. I think it is well past the time to quit looking to the previous two administrations as exscuses for their own bad behaviour.

[jdobbin]

So Van Loan says Liberals of the past have done worse(spent more) than the CPC's of today.

Now why does that sound familiar?

This has been a common justification for been caught trying to hide expenses. We are not as bad as what came before.

I suppose we'll see with further investigations via the freedom of information act.

[jdobbin]

More generally though, is the best the opposition can dig up against the Tories?

That they are hiding expenses? I think this is significant. You don't?

[Shakeyhands]

Again, just like the other situation. So much for transperency and openess. Seems those lobbyists aren't paying for the dinners out I guess, they are just being expensed by those not under the umbrella of the *NEW* governments own self set rules.

Is this it Michael? Is that the way this government works?

[jdobbin]

Again, just like the other situation. So much for transperency and openess. Seems those lobbyists aren't paying for the dinners out I guess, they are just being expensed by those not under the umbrella of the *NEW* governments own self set rules.

The new government just pushes the bill towards the lobbyist now. The government has weakened provisions of when a lobbyist wines and dines MPs and ministers of the government. I wonder if they get swag bags too.

[August1991]

More generally though, is the best the opposition can dig up against the Tories?

That they are hiding expenses? I think this is significant. You don't?

Well, the criticsm first seemed to be that Blackburn was profligate. Now, it seems to be that he tried to hide the expense.

The guy apparently spent $150,000 on travel in over a year and it was recorded in such a manner that it came to light. Did he really try to hide it? Was it a bureaucrat who divulged the info?

I frankly don't care. The amount isn't outrageous (it's even reasonable) and if this is the biggest out-of-touch-with-ordinary-people scandal that the opposition can find, I'm not worried.

Dobbin, I'd be the first person to agree with complaints about how our government politicians/bureaucrats spend our money. The latest story that bothered me is similar to Blackburn's $150,000:

A former foreign correspondent for China's state-owned Xinhua news agency, who immigrated in the mid-1990s after marrying a Canadian, Ms. Zhang remains on full salary but has not reported to work since October.

...

This spring, Crown lawyers tried and failed in their attempt to overturn the adjudicator's decision. In Federal Court, lawyers for the government even made noises about hoping to recover $200,000 in wages paid to Ms. Zhang.

G & M

Ten years after arriving in Canada, she got $200,000 out of us for doing nothing. And this doesn't include the several hundred thousand more that we've paid the lawyers and tribunals and various bureaucrats to arrive at this situation. And it doesn't include the settlement that we'll pay when the people on the tribunals (whose salary we pay) arrive at the final settlement they feel that this woman deserves.

I'm not going to begrudge Blackburn $150,000 for travel if he can somehow put an end to this system.

When people are paid with other people's money to solve other people's problems using other's people money, you just know that no long term good will come of the arrangement. Imagine if I had access to Argus bank account to pay myself, and then access to Thelonious' bank account to solve the problems of Figleaf. Such is government (and sorry for the rant).

[Michael Bluth]

The guy apparently spent $150,000 on travel in over a year and it was recorded in such a manner that it came to light. Did he really try to hide it? Was it a bureaucrat who divulged the info?

I frankly don't care. The amount isn't outrageous (it's even reasonable) and if this is the biggest out-of-touch-with-ordinary-people scandal that the opposition can find, I'm not worried.

There is the rub.

Throw dirt as often and in as many directions as you can.

Even when it's painfully apparent none of it will stick just keep at it.

[jdobbin]

Well, the criticsm first seemed to be that Blackburn was profligate. Now, it seems to be that he tried to hide the expense.

The guy apparently spent $150,000 on travel in over a year and it was recorded in such a manner that it came to light. Did he really try to hide it? Was it a bureaucrat who divulged the info?

I frankly don't care. The amount isn't outrageous (it's even reasonable) and if this is the biggest out-of-touch-with-ordinary-people scandal that the opposition can find, I'm not worried.

Dobbin, I'd be the first person to agree with complaints about how our government politicians/bureaucrats spend our money.

No problem on the rant. I never questioned the money spent. I questioned why it is not in the listed expenses as the Tories promised they would be. When I see zero expenses being listed for a cabinet minister that has to travel a lot, I wonder what budget it is being paid out from.

There are two things that were promised. Expenses would not be transparent and they would be justified.

At the moment, it isn't transparent and the justification has been that the Liberals did worse. That doesn't cut it.

[Michael Bluth]

There are two things that were promised. Expenses would not be transparent and they would be justified.

At the moment, it isn't transparent and the justification has been that the Liberals did worse. That doesn't cut it.

In your speed of attacks you are getting sloppy.

I think you meant that expenses "would be transparent."

Why is it not transparent because it's not in the expense report you expected it to be in?

Your supposed justification was never used by the minister. He represents a large area. He has said that. He even asked if his critics expected him to use a bicycle.

[August1991]

I questioned why it is not in the listed expenses as the Tories promised they would be. When I see zero expenses being listed for a cabinet minister that has to travel a lot, I wonder what budget it is being paid out from.

A minister who claims zero travel costs is not trying to hide anything. When I saw that report (and I haven't followed this closely), I ignored the charge.

The usual practice is to bury a minister's personal expenses (and the minister's staff/family expenses) somewhere in the bureaucracy.

BTW, ministers generally don't care about amassing money; they care about power. Ministers care about money to keep their staff in line and to keep their spouses/family happy. Is Blackburn married?

[jdobbin]

A minister who claims zero travel costs is not trying to hide anything. When I saw that report (and I haven't followed this closely), I ignored the charge.

The usual practice is to bury a minister's personal expenses (and the minister's staff/family expenses) somewhere in the bureaucracy.

BTW, ministers generally don't care about amassing money; they care about power. Ministers care about money to keep their staff in line and to keep their spouses/family happy. Is Blackburn married?

The Tories had said in the accountability promise that is posted on their website and signed by Harper that they would not hide expenses. They talked about how it would be transparent what a minister spent and what it was spent on. They said they would justify those expenses.

I have no problem with a minister spending money on flights for business. I do have a problem if that information has to be searched for in a freedom of information access probe.

[August1991]

I have no problem with a minister spending money on flights for business. I do have a problem if that information has to be searched for in a freedom of information access probe.

I think the Liberals are barking up a tree on this one.

Blackburn's expenses - like Ambrose's - were recorded elsewhere.

Harper's a micro-manager, like Jimmy Carter. He will never get caught on detail. I wouldn't be surprised if the travel claims of Mackay's staff are copied to the PMO for Harper to see personally.

S, will Harper get caught on the big picture?

I thought that Harper-Dion would be a Pearson-Diefenbaker minority dance. In fact, Harper may be a Tory Mackenzie King or a Duplessis or a Bill Davis. An obsessive detail guy who sort-of sees the big (Canadian) picture too. To defeat Harper, Dion will have to step far outside the box.

[jdobbin]

I think the Liberals are barking up a tree on this one.

Blackburn's expenses - like Ambrose's - were recorded elsewhere.

Harper's a micro-manager, like Jimmy Carter. He will never get caught on detail. I wouldn't be surprised if the travel claims of Mackay's staff are copied to the PMO for Harper to see personally.

S, will Harper get caught on the big picture?

I thought that Harper-Dion would be a Pearson-Diefenbaker minority dance. In fact, Harper may be a Tory Mackenzie King or a Duplessis or a Bill Davis. An obsessive detail guy who sort-of sees the big (Canadian) picture too. To defeat Harper, Dion will have to step far outside the box.

It was the NDP researchers who turned this up.

And given how the Tories have slipped in the polls, it would seem that details matter to the public as well.

[Michael Bluth]

I thought that Harper-Dion would be a Pearson-Diefenbaker minority dance. In fact, Harper may be a Tory Mackenzie King or a Duplessis or a Bill Davis. An obsessive detail guy who sort-of sees the big (Canadian) picture too. To defeat Harper, Dion will have to step far outside the box.

I agree with you about the possibility of Harper being able to stick around long-term.

Right or wrong it seems like the most recent environmental plan has put the issue to rest.

Now Harper has to deal with Afghanistan.

Then there won't be any other issues facing him.

[runningdog]

"I have no problem with a minister spending money on flights for business. I do have a problem if that information has to be searched for in a freedom of information access probe."

Exactly!

[Michael Bluth]

"I have no problem with a minister spending money on flights for business. I do have a problem if that information has to be searched for in a freedom of information access probe."

Exactly!

Why?

[Fortunata]

After the Liberal government the public learned that transparent accounting needs to be. Obviously Steve hasn't got that through his head, although he did campaign on openness and transparency. People mistrust hidden anythings whether it be agendas, tax funded psychicks, or travel expenses. It makes the government appear to be hiding "bad" things.

[jdobbin]

Exactly!

The Conservatives seemed to be determined to show they spend no taxpayer money at all in the performance of their jobs. This was as an unreasonable stance as Liberals who though they should spend money at the maximum of what they could.

If a minister is required to fly to different areas of the country, don't try to claim that they didn't have any expenses. Outline them, make them readily available and justify them.

It isn't a difficult thing to ask.

At the moment, expenses are being hidden or being passed on to lobbyists who wine and dine ministers and bureaucrats alike. The bill gets passed across the table.

Can the government be bought by meals out? Perhaps not. Bit it leaves no government paper trail as to who they met, when they met and what they met about. Essentially access is bought and the public is none the wiser.

[Shakeyhands]

Can the government be bought by meals out? Perhaps not. Bit it leaves no government paper trail as to who they met, when they met and what they met about. Essentially access is bought and the public is none the wiser.

I'm in sales and a HUGE part of my job entails entertaining customers and dinners out, its all about relationships, people buy from people they like, even if it does cost them a bit more.

[Shakeyhands]

oh, and by the way, if I fudge around with my expenses, including having someone else submit them under teir rules or account codes, I'd be fired.

[jdobbin]

oh, and by the way, if I fudge around with my expenses, including having someone else submit them under teir rules or account codes, I'd be fired.

Unfortunately in politics, we have to wait for an election to do it.

Expenses should definitely be plain to see, especially in government.

[Shakeyhands]

oh dear....

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/212185

hmmm... wonder why this is apparently a systemic issue with the CPC?

[jdobbin]

oh dear....

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/212185

hmmm... wonder why this is apparently a systemic issue with the CPC?

This should almost be a second thread but you're right, it indicates a systemic lack of transparency.

More from CTV:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...09?hub=Politics

Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon made regular use of an executive government jet last year while keeping the trips off his travel expenses, documents show.

He's the second Conservative minister this week to have his travel habits exposed using government documents obtained by the NDP through an Access to Information request.

It's an embarrassing lapse of transparency for a government in the midst of trumpeting new accountability legislation in the Commons.

Transport Canada's aircraft flight log shows at least six trips taken by Cannon in 2006 aboard a sleek Citation C-550 executive jet that do not appear anywhere in his posted ministerial expenses, as mandated by the federal Treasury Board.

Cannon's officials claimed Wednesday that the flights did not come out of the minister's budget, therefore he was not required to post the travel under the government policy of "proactive disclosure.''

"(Treasury Board) guidelines do not require the minister to divulge the cost of its travel if the travel is not paid by his budget,'' press secretary Natalie Sarafian said in an e-mail.

But rules posted by Treasury Board concerning proactive disclosure make no such distinction.

[geoffrey]

Didn't realise the money didn't come from their budgets... it was easily found where the budget dollars were. Meh. I retract my call for Blackburn's resignation.