Parliament debate on Afghanistan

[Topaz]

I've been watching the debate and I can find agreement in all parties that have debated. I do, find though Jay Hill debate outrages on some of his comments. He tries to compared this war with Hitler and the what if we Canada said we are out because too many Canadians are dying. You can't compare the two. Hitler was far more ruthless and needed to be taken out and the whole world said so. This "war on terror" is Bush's war. The US was told over and over again what was about to happen (9/11) and they ignored because this would fit into their plan of invasion of Iraq. Jay Hill says the Taliban and the al Qaeda are evil!!! Well if they are so evil, why did the US help train the al Qaeda and Cheney had the Taliban as guest in spring of 2001??? Could it be that these people are evil when the west is at war with them?? The debate is really about the length of time Canadians should be there. Since the Cons have extended the mission to Feb.09, I think that should be the deadline unless something happens that would have all of Parliament to extend it again. I. also, think that perhaps the families of the soldiers should have a vote in this since they are the ones that have more to lose than Parliament. We are also spending millions if not billions of dollars on military equipment and most of it won't be ready until '08 and '10 and later.

[Army Guy]

Thats the problem with Canadians today, we don't know how to handle any crisses, we like the UN have to debate issues to death. We can't stay focused long enough to see anything thru in todays fast food culture...

So i'm sure we are winning lots of hearts and minds in Afgan, The NDP wants out now, something about dafur...The liberals have put a foot down 2 years no more....The Cons just want to see it thru....I've always wondered what the Afgans talk about in regards to our commitment....not offically as suggested below but behind closed doors.

Afganis

As for this being Bushes war "you are wrong" it may of been his idea , his plan, But as soon as WE as a nation agreed to help, it became a Canadian commitment, Canada decides it's level of commitment, no one else. So we can stop the finger pionting right now.

But the majority of Canadians have said enough , we've done enough, we've payed enough, we've buried to many. And while it is true Canadian soldiers have done all that and more, they are the ones asking those majority "what they have done" , what have they done to solve this problem....A problem they are now willing to drop like a hot rock....leaving it all behind for someone else to solve, or for the Afganis to fend for themselfs...

I. also, think that perhaps the families of the soldiers should have a vote in this since they are the ones that have more to lose than Parliament.

Thats not what most Canadians want, because thats not what they want to hear, most if not all military famlies are commited to the mission, and staying until we are no longer needed. Nobody wants to leave a job unfinished atleast when there is a chance of success.

We are also spending millions if not billions of dollars on military equipment and most of it won't be ready until '08 and '10 and later

Yes a sad state of affairs, that we as Canadians can't piont a finger at anyone except ourselfs.

[Topaz]

That is what the debate was about....how long to stay. Harper, has said until Feb.'09 and all the rest of Parliament want is, his promise and for him to let NATO know how long we are staying. Canada has been there for 7 years and 3 in the south were the Taliban are and so we will lose alot more soldiers before this is over or we run out of soldiers. IF there is a change of government in Afghanistan, which I understand another party is ready to go against in the next election, the next govt changes everything and asked everyone out. What was the purposes of the Canadians soldiers that died???

[geoffrey]

It's time the Euros step up other than the Dutch and the Danes. If the Germans and French want NATO protection, they need to step up for their end of the treaty.

[Fortunata]

The war on terror is a Bushism to get the American people to rally behind the "need" to invade Iraq. If that's the real thinking behind us being in Afghanistan, hell yeah, pull out. I want no part of Georgie's games.

If however, we are in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban from coming back into power, to give the people there a country they can live in without fear then we should stay until we are satisfied we can do no more there to help.

That's where our politicians fall down. Steve's there for Bush. Liberals now want out (wth?) in 2009 just because and the NDP are just out to take a stand that no one else took. Not one of them are in or want out for the right reasons; with them it's votes and political posturing.

[Army Guy]

That is what the debate was about....how long to stay. Harper, has said until Feb.'09 and all the rest of Parliament want is, his promise and for him to let NATO know how long we are staying. Canada has been there for 7 years and 3 in the south were the Taliban are and so we will lose alot more soldiers before this is over or we run out of soldiers

Can't really have a debate about an exit stratagy without discusses the mission, or the pros and cons of us leaving.

[M.Dancer]

It's time the Euros step up other than the Dutch and the Danes. If the Germans and French want NATO protection, they need to step up for their end of the treaty.

[edit] France

Over 4,000 personnel including 3,500 for the Marine Nationale (one CVBG, comprising the FS Charles de Gaulle, frigates La Motte-Picquet, Jean de Vienne and Jean Bart, the nuclear attack submarine Rubis, the tanker Meuse and the aviso Commandant Ducuing) 600 ground troops and 600 from the Armée de l'Air (12 Mirage 2000, Mirage F1 and Mirage IV ground-attack and reconnaissance aircraft). A French task force composed of soldiers from the 21st Marine Infantry Regiment deployed on November 17, 2001, to Mazar-e Sharif. Six French soldiers have died during OEF (as well as 3 under ISAF): all 6 in various hostile incidents.

In 2001 and beginning again in the summer of 2003, 200 soldiers from various units of the Army Special Forces Brigade (BFST), including marine and air commandos, have conducted operations against the Taliban, under command and in co-operation with U.S. special operations forces present in the area.

[edit] Germany

In 2002, Germany had 2,560 personnel in the region. German KSK Kommando Spezialkräfte special forces were involved in combat operations. The German Navy has had three Frigates, one Fast Patrol Boat Group (five units) and four supply ships operating out of Djibouti, in the Gulf of Aden. A German Airbus A310 aircraft was on alert in Germany for use as a medevac platform.

[fellowtraveller]

Forget about Jay Hill, Taliban Jack Layton, Dion , Harper, Bush, polls, NATO and all the rest of the silly, diabolical crap that confuses our will and aids an enemy.

Focus instead on the Afghani people if you want an indisputable litmus test of how they fell about what is going on in their country.

And here is the single fact to keep first and foremost in your head, the fact that justifies what we have done and hope to do in Afghanistan:

Over two million Afghan refugees have voluntarily returned to the country since NATO invaded in late 2001. Two Million Plus voted with their feet. They didn't read Hansard or the New York Times, they packed up again and returned to their homes because they were less afraid. Some had been gone a generation. They have stayed, they have not fled back to Iran or Pakistan.

[Topaz]

Forget about Jay Hill, Taliban Jack Layton, Dion , Harper, Bush, polls, NATO and all the rest of the silly, diabolical crap that confuses our will and aids an enemy.

Focus instead on the Afghani people if you want an indisputable litmus test of how they fell about what is going on in their country.

And here is the single fact to keep first and foremost in your head, the fact that justifies what we have done and hope to do in Afghanistan:

Over two million Afghan refugees have voluntarily returned to the country since NATO invaded in late 2001. Two Million Plus voted with their feet. They didn't read Hansard or the New York Times, they packed up again and returned to their homes because they were less afraid. Some had been gone a generation. They have stayed, they have not fled back to Iran or Pakistan.

One thing we must think about is, what will happen to Afghanistan once the war in Iraq is over, or the US does pull out of Iraq?? Then the war then will shift to Afghanistan and more area people will go there to fight against the west. If that happens we'll be lucky to have anyone return home alive if it turns as violent as Iraq.