Dion did not support Kyoto

[Alexandra]

Interesting.

]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

[B. Max]

Interesting.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Dion himself said the targets were impossible. They had two committees look at it and both said there was no way to do it without destroying the economy.

[Alexandra]

Edited to read full article from G & M:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

[Martin Chriton]

No Liberal MP believes meeting the targets is possible.

[Wilber]

So it was just all show biz. Who'd a thunk it.

[dlkenny]

True, they said last week that even Jean Cretien knew it wasn't do-able he just "wanted to set a precedent." I wonder then why he opted to sign Canada on for 6% instead of the 5% mandated in the actual protocol...isn't that counterproductive? If you want to look good on the world stage and set a precedent, you don't voluntarily increase the target while knowing full well you can't even meet the original target.

[Wilber]

True, they said last week that even Jean Cretien knew it wasn't do-able he just "wanted to set a precedent." I wonder then why he opted to sign Canada on for 6% instead of the 5% mandated in the actual protocol...isn't that counterproductive? If you want to look good on the world stage and set a precedent, you don't voluntarily increase the target while knowing full well you can't even meet the original target.

Show biz

[Canuck E Stan]

True, they said last week that even Jean Cretien knew it wasn't do-able he just "wanted to set a precedent." I wonder then why he opted to sign Canada on for 6% instead of the 5% mandated in the actual protocol...isn't that counterproductive? If you want to look good on the world stage and set a precedent, you don't voluntarily increase the target while knowing full well you can't even meet the original target.

Like a true politician,for the moment and at that moment, he lied and told them something they wanted to hear,and in turn became a hero of the moment to the Kyotoists.

Thinking wasn't required in order to get a pat on the back...for that moment.

[Keepitsimple]

True, they said last week that even Jean Cretien knew it wasn't do-able he just "wanted to set a precedent." I wonder then why he opted to sign Canada on for 6% instead of the 5% mandated in the actual protocol...isn't that counterproductive? If you want to look good on the world stage and set a precedent, you don't voluntarily increase the target while knowing full well you can't even meet the original target.

I read that he chose 6% because he wanted to go one better than the US. Pretty dumb in any event because the US didn't sign on.

[Keepitsimple]

Today's article by Don Martin of the Post combines the comments of three senior Liberals under the heading "Liberals paint leader as slacker on the Green file".

Link: http://www.canada.com/components/print.asp...18-f9b47cded36b

So what we have is a Prime Minister who allegedly is a denyer and a hypocrit...but is taking concrete action on the environment. And that compares to the previous government who declared themselves to care deeply about the environment and totally committed to Kyoto....but did nothing. So after reading the remarks of these senior Liberals, who really has embarrassed Canada on the world stage?

[Monroe]

But let's face it, everyone knows without India, China, the US, Kyoto doesn't do a damn thing. It's all about posturing, and putting yourself in a position where you can portray America as the nation blaming process. Environmentalism in politics is all about faux credentials, not about making a difference. No-one wants to preside over economic disaster.

[gc1765]

To be fair, Harper was never concerned about global warming, and now apparently he is.

It's just that politicians tend to do what is popular. A few years ago, global warming was less of an issue. Now it's an important issue for many Canadians, which is why it is all of a sudden on the agenda of both the Liberals and CPC.

[Wilber]

To be fair, Harper was never concerned about global warming, and now apparently he is.

It's just that politicians tend to do what is popular. A few years ago, global warming was less of an issue. Now it's an important issue for many Canadians, which is why it is all of a sudden on the agenda of both the Liberals and CPC.

Of course, but it looks like it is hypocritical to say that one side has been more hypocritical than the other on this issue. It's a wash. Come election time, I can't imagine how either of them could stand up and claim to be champions of the environment with a straight face. But they will.

[geoffrey]

The difference is now we see results, with Dion we didn't. He was environment minister longer than Baird was. Baird wins hands down.

People need to throw the rhetoric and all that shit aside and look at 'what the hell do we get'.

We've gotten more on the environment in the last month then since Mulroney negoiated our way into cleaning up the acid rain problem.

[gc1765]

Come election time, I can't imagine how either of them could stand up and claim to be champions of the environment with a straight face. But they will.

I agree.

The difference is now we see results, with Dion we didn't. He was environment minister longer than Baird was. Baird wins hands down.

That's because they are the ones in power. If Dion was in power now, I'm sure he'd do something about the environment. If the situation was reversed, and the CPC were in power a few years ago when the environment wasn't even on the radar politically, I imagine they would have done even less than Dion.

[geoffrey]

That's because they are the ones in power. If Dion was in power now, I'm sure he'd do something about the environment. If the situation was reversed, and the CPC were in power a few years ago when the environment wasn't even on the radar politically, I imagine they would have done even less than Dion.

Reasonable analysis. I'm still unconvienced though. I think we'd hear some cool things, see some plans, perhaps some money would get thrown around. But I'm unsure if it'd be as direct as the CPC response. It just isn't the Liberal way.

[Argus]

To be fair, Harper was never concerned about global warming, and now apparently he is.

It's just that politicians tend to do what is popular. A few years ago, global warming was less of an issue. Now it's an important issue for many Canadians, which is why it is all of a sudden on the agenda of both the Liberals and CPC.

Of course, but it looks like it is hypocritical to say that one side has been more hypocritical than the other on this issue. It's a wash. Come election time, I can't imagine how either of them could stand up and claim to be champions of the environment with a straight face. But they will.

To me, there is a difference. The tories, in effect, said, "We're not interested in this because we don't think it's important" And then they decided to go ahead and put a program in place because the rest of the country now thinks it's important and they are getting tremendous pressure from the opposition. But I don't see a lot of enthusiasm from them. The environment is clearly not number one on their hit parade.

The Liberals pretended to care all the while and clearly didn't give a damn. The current leader even acted against efforts to put a program in place for Kyoto And now, the Liberals have been baying like blood-crazed hounds on the environment issue, thumping desks and making loud, self-righteous accusations, with Dion portraying himself at every turn as the great environmentalist with a dog named Kyoto. They even sponsored a bill demanding the new government meet its (their) Kyoto agreement and threatened to bring the government down on the issue. This is far greater hypocrisy and dishonesty in my opinion.

[gc1765]

To me, there is a difference. The tories, in effect, said, "We're not interested in this because we don't think it's important" And then they decided to go ahead and put a program in place because the rest of the country now thinks it's important and they are getting tremendous pressure from the opposition. But I don't see a lot of enthusiasm from them. The environment is clearly not number one on their hit parade.

Yeah, it's not a huge priority for the conservatives all of a sudden...I mean it's not like they put it front and center on their webpage or anything: Link

I see no difference between the Liberals and Conservatives on this issue, both talk big when it's an issue, but ignore it when it's not. Put aside your partisanship and you'll see that the Conservatives have jumped on the environment bandwagon just as much as the Conservatives.

[Argus]

To me, there is a difference. The tories, in effect, said, "We're not interested in this because we don't think it's important" And then they decided to go ahead and put a program in place because the rest of the country now thinks it's important and they are getting tremendous pressure from the opposition. But I don't see a lot of enthusiasm from them. The environment is clearly not number one on their hit parade.

Yeah, it's not a huge priority for the conservatives all of a sudden...I mean it's not like they put it front and center on their webpage or anything: Link

I see no difference between the Liberals and Conservatives on this issue, both talk big when it's an issue, but ignore it when it's not. Put aside your partisanship and you'll see that the Conservatives have jumped on the environment bandwagon just as much as the Conservatives.

The difference is the Liberals built the bandwagon on this issue.

[geoffrey]

Straight up here, what is the Liberals exactly climate change plan? Are they in favour of a carbon tax?

I honestly don't know. All I hear is environmental sustainability. I've never seen action, and they don't have a plan for one, so what up?

Each individual Liberal has their own conflicting plan with the rest of the bunch. I honestly don't think anyone knows what's going on inside that party right now.

[gc1765]

The difference is the Liberals built the bandwagon on this issue.

So, Dion is the leader and Harper is the follower?

Straight up here, what is the Liberals exactly climate change plan? Are they in favour of a carbon tax?

I honestly don't know. All I hear is environmental sustainability. I've never seen action, and they don't have a plan for one, so what up?

Each individual Liberal has their own conflicting plan with the rest of the bunch. I honestly don't think anyone knows what's going on inside that party right now.

Here is a bunch of info from when he ran for leader: Link

[geoffrey]

Here is a bunch of info from when he ran for leader: Link

That doesn't agree with the plans of head-up-the-ass Mark Holland or Michael 'Carbon Tax' Ignatieff. It most certainly doesn't agree with Dion's comments that the Liberal party is still studying the carbon tax.

So what exactly are they going to do? There is no direction, and I wouldn't expect it from them.

[gc1765]

So what exactly are they going to do? There is no direction, and I wouldn't expect it from them.

I imagine they will announce their "official" policy during the next election. There may or may not be a few changes, but that website at least gives some ideas of the direction they are headed in. Did the Conservatives have their platform all laid out before the election campaign? When did they announce the GST cut, child-care allowance, etc...?

[Argus]

So what exactly are they going to do? There is no direction, and I wouldn't expect it from them.

I imagine they will announce their "official" policy during the next election. There may or may not be a few changes, but that website at least gives some ideas of the direction they are headed in. Did the Conservatives have their platform all laid out before the election campaign? When did they announce the GST cut, child-care allowance, etc...?

I will say it right here and now. The Liberals will never offer any specifics about their "environmental policy" as related to global warming. They will offer up all sorts of folksy homolies and earnest entreaties to vote for them so they can save the planet, but they will NEVER tell you how they plan to go about it. They will offer generalities, and maybe some programs that offer up tax incentives to green energy development. They might offer up programs with tax incentives or funding for people to replace appliances and the like with more modern equipment. But they will not tell you any of the hard stuff. They will not talk about emissions caps or carbon taxes or sending money to China until they are safely in government with a majority. They will not talk about the big stuff until they know it's too late for people to realize just how much it will cost.

[gc1765]

I will say it right here and now. The Liberals will never offer any specifics about their "environmental policy" as related to global warming. They will offer up all sorts of folksy homolies and earnest entreaties to vote for them so they can save the planet, but they will NEVER tell you how they plan to go about it. They will offer generalities, and maybe some programs that offer up tax incentives to green energy development. They might offer up programs with tax incentives or funding for people to replace appliances and the like with more modern equipment. But they will not tell you any of the hard stuff. They will not talk about emissions caps or carbon taxes or sending money to China until they are safely in government with a majority. They will not talk about the big stuff until they know it's too late for people to realize just how much it will cost.

Did you not read the link I provided? There are tons of specific policies in there.