I Thought They Were Going To Try Harder

[Canadian Blue]

I'm not aware of that. But if a gun is pointed at you by soldiers who are from a different country that should give you a hint that you should back down.

[Wilber]

I'm not aware of that. But if a gun is pointed at you by soldiers who are from a different country that should give you a hint that you should back down.

You'd think, unless you were looking for a Darwin Award.

[weaponeer]

ROEs are not "rocket science", they are really quite simple. I am in pre-depoly training now, I can assure you we go over them day after day, scenario after scenario.

All Canadian patrols have ANA soldiers with them, if for nothing else than to translate. When a soldier at a checkpoint aims his gun at you, you stop, simple. It is pretty obvious. If you drove up to the gate at CFB Trenton, having never been on a military base in your life, and the guard raises his gun, I think you know to stop.

As for the cowards comment, yes, if you feel some moral superiority above a soldier in the line of fire in Afghanistan, while hiding behind a computer, then coward fits..

A soldier shot a civilian who ran a checkpoint. Most normal people would say, "that's terrible, lets wait and see what the investigation finds". That's why we have MP's & RCMP over there. If you are not there, you don't know what happened, your in no position to judge.

[Who's Doing What?]

Well today NATO soldiers filled two more civillians with bullets.

Same old made in the USA excuse used again.

~~~~~~~~~~~

We told him to stop but he ignored our warnings

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yea right.

Didnt catch the nationalities of the soldiers who did the killing but with our reputation it was probobly Canadian soldiers.

But dont qoute me on that

From what I hear this seems to me like an attempt from the Taliban to incite the anti-war people like yourself, by having so-called innocents get dressed up to look like are wearing a bomb and approach NATO forces.

What are they supposed to do wait until the guy is close enough to blow up himself and the NATO troops?

You don't pull a toy gun on a cop who has his weapon already drawn, and you don't walk around Afghanistan (or Iraq, or anywhere else for that matter) looking like you have a bomb strapped to your torso.

[madmax]

I am not a right-winger. As for supporting talibs & AQ, they don't want anything to do with you either...

I am not a believer in the right left ideology. The whole concept was created by where people sat in the house. It is a stupid analogy that certain rockheads use to bash voters with.

I understand that you are not a "right-winger" but you will be supporting the CPC as you stated in another thread.

I am not an Islamic Fundamentalist looking to create and Islamic Caliphate within the boundries of Canada.

This is a "Right Wing" Social Conservative organization of political and religious extremism.

Such things as Capital Punishment.

Vigilantism and Victims rights to kill the perpetrator.

Public Execution to see justice for all. Not to far from the Public Hangings we have used to have.

Many Right Wing Religious groups that are popular in the US prohibit music and dancing.

Good thing they never banned Kite Flying, or we wouldn't have electricity today.

It is no surprise that the Republicans of the 80s felt a common bond with the Islamic Fundamentalists of Afghanistan. It felt like the wild west and these people were described as a Mans Man.

Even the Soldiers/Agents whom fought in 2001 with the Northern Alliance found common bonds, and respect for a group of fundamentalists whom would charge their horses towards Taliban Tanks.

The Northern Alliance went from Enemy/opposition to Allies in short order. There isn't much we would want to have to do with them either. Al Qaida turned their back on supporters. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United States. They are not something to coddle towards. Nor will any level of military engagement eradict Al Qaida. It will take more then military action.

The Taliban, are still supported by Elements of the ISI and the neighboring Pashtun tribes. They can draw up support when required through desire to kill western infidels or fear of the local population.

Killing of innocents cannot be brushed aside. As in "too bad for that stupid SOB."

The Afghan Army is about to be heralded that after 6 years it could grow to be larger than Canadas Contingent. If the Afghan Army is 50,000 strong they can take care of themselves, and should be out front and taking responsibility for unfortuneate Casualties.The Taliban should be suffering blowback from the number of civilian casualties they inflict. But for what ever reason, they are able to deflect the blame upon the "Infidels".

If Afghans are accidentally killing their own, then the infidels cannot be blamed, which is the recruiting process of this Uneducated Islamic Mosaic and its neighboring territories.

[madmax]

I'm not aware of that. But if a gun is pointed at you by soldiers who are from a different country that should give you a hint that you should back down.

Afghans have been engaged in War for close to 30 years. Just another weapon and nearly everyone has one. Pointing a firearm isn't uncommon. And if these soldiers are supposed to be "Friendly" and on "your side", why would you expect them to kill you, since they drove out the Taliban that you hated. And they have been handing out goods earlier.

You can be right in your assessment, but that will not win the hearts and minds of anyone. Doesn't matter what we think, it is what they think.

For Canadians, it is a Catch 22. You cannot identify if the person is an innocent or an agent or a suicide bomber. And the person can be any of the above. Get it wrong and your on the front page.

There is the another element as well. The Afghan Mafia, and thievery is no different then the theft that occurred in Somalia. People are desperate hungry and if you see any good documentaries, Afghans are clever scammers/dealers/barterers (your pick), and sneaking around sniffing out something to take to the market is also common.

Regardless the publicity isn't good. The Taliban use this for propoganda, and if their propoganda is more effective then our 3 block strategy, where Canadian Soldiers at the lowest levels are responsible for the Combat, Security and Aid Provision, they have to make the "RIGHT" call every time, or its headline news.

What's going on in Afghanistan, isn't about what "you think" or what would be logical to you.

What is important is what Afghans, Pashtuns think and what is logical to them.

[madmax]

This Bay Lee character is a nut. Nato forces did not kill 1000. 900 were killed by the insurgents that Bay Lee seems to want to protect. Here's an excerpt and the link:

Human Rights Watch said that at least 100 of those civilian deaths were caused by NATO and U.S.-led troop operations, far below another estimate by an Afghan rights group.

I don't know if Bay Lee is a nut or not. Bay Lee was Incorrect, perhaps not well read on the article or only looked at the headline. Calling people a nut that you disagree with or prove wrong lowers others view of you.

Human Rights Watch is often slammed by people in this forum, whom use similar attack strategies.

I disagree not only with Bay Lees Facts, but General Assessment of Afghanistan and Canadian Soldiers.

We do not have the reputation that shook Canada and the Forces over the Somalia affair.

Don't fall for propoganda, but at the same time, don't think that these killings of innocent civilians can be written off with dismissive comments either, such as Too Bad So Sad.

This won't be the last time this happens, and there isn't anything to suggest forces aren't trying harder.

They are going to have to continually improve and refine procedure. And the best thing we can do is provide the means to hand this country back to the Afghan Government and Government forces.

[BayLee]

The man the Canadian soldiers murdered yesterday in Afghanistan?

He was a beggar.

A beggar with mental illness.

Well known in that area of the city.

His crime yesterday for which he was killed.

He was begging.

And oh yes,those supposed wires protruding from his body?

It was what he used as a belt and buttons to keep his clothes on.

[BayLee]

So your blaming our soldiers for killing innocents based on nothing but speculation and pure hatred.

T

Well actually it is you saying the Canadian soldiers acted appropriatly just because they said so,and as you see from the above post,they did not

[madmax]

The man the Canadian soldiers murdered yesterday in Afghanistan?

He was a beggar.

A beggar with mental illness.

Well known in that area of the city.

His crime yesterday for which he was killed.

He was begging.

And oh yes,those supposed wires protruding from his body?

It was what he used as a belt and buttons to keep his clothes on.

Got the link for that? This isn't positive news, and one of the many reasons that you can't just dismiss ROE actions as "too bad, So Sad".

[BayLee]

Got the link for that? This isn't positive news, and one of the many reasons that you can't just dismiss ROE actions as "too bad, So Sad".

The link?

Yea,on the morning news on TV this morning

[Borg]

Got the link for that? This isn't positive news, and one of the many reasons that you can't just dismiss ROE actions as "too bad, So Sad".

The link?

Yea,on the morning news on TV this morning

I see Baylee did not answer the question - a coward? or no response because it was not something to be of interest?

More smears and more innuendo - time to write this one off.

Borg

[newbie]

"... If you are not there, you don't know what happened, your in no position to judge..."

Try to follow your own advice when communicating with those whom you disagree with.

[Wilber]

Perhaps BayLee could find a new future as a greeter in Afghanistan. It would be a short one methinks.

[BayLee]

Got the link for that? This isn't positive news, and one of the many reasons that you can't just dismiss ROE actions as "too bad, So Sad".

The link?

Yea,on the morning news on TV this morning

I see Baylee did not answer the question - a coward? or no response because it was not something to be of interest?

More smears and more innuendo - time to write this one off.

Borg

Well yes,I did answer the question.The link was it was on the news this morning.

Not of interest?

I see you care less that some mentally ill poor man who was just begging was blown away by Canadian soldiers.

That is no smear

Write it off?

Of course,you war mongers dont want to hear about innocent people being blown away by our soldiers.

And I am sure if the CONS and Hartper and the Canadian military have there way,indeed it will be written off.

Oh by the way,calling me a coward was name calling.

So it is being reported

[Borg]

Name calling?

Coward?

It was a question.

Report away.

Borg

[madmax]

Name calling?

Report away.

Borg

Ok 7 of 9 your being reported

[Borg]

Actually 7 of 9 is far better looking than this old guy.

;->

Borg (which is simply a portion of my name)

[madmax]

I am not certain if this was covered in the other Afghan thread. If it was my apologise.

There is a little more to the story then the headlines.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....post&f=3&t=8115

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — A Canadian soldier who opened fire on an Afghan National Army convoy wounding a military driver should face some kind of discipline in his own country, a senior Afghan commander said Thursday

The line of vehicles was waved through an initial checkpoint by a Canadian light armoured vehicle crew but came under fire when it approached the inner defensive perimeter

Regardless of the circumstances we are being looked upon by Afghans like this.

A series of unintentional civilian shootings over the last year has increased tension between Canadian troops and the Afghan population, who have taken to complaining openly about the violence.

Whereas the Taliban seem to deflect this

Meanwhile, a village shura — or meeting — in neighbouring Helmand province, involving NATO and Afghan army forces and village elders in Haji Amin Kalay, was hit with extremist mortar fire.

One woman was killed and her child suffered shrapnel wounds

While our forces try to provide aid to everyone affected.

Read the whole article for the good bad and ugly.

[BayLee]

You people are something else.

You show not the slightest bit of concern that the Canadian soldiers blew away a man with mental illness?

A man who was begging?

Rather you attack me because you claim I didnt post a link,when in fact I did

A beggar who uses chord,wire to keep his clothes on

And all you are concerned about is me not posting a link to the story?

Calling me a coward because I didnt?

When in fact I did.

So much for your concern for the innocent victim here

[madmax]

You show not the slightest bit of concern that the Canadian soldiers blew away a man with mental illness?

Rather you attack me because you claim I didnt post a link,when in fact I did

A beggar who uses chord,wire to keep his clothes on

And all you are concerned about is me not posting a link to the story?

This is a link that goes further then Hearsay off the Television. People on this forum have been known to quote the news with alot of embellishment or outright fabrication.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...hub=CTVNewsAt11

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- Two unarmed Afghan civilians were shot and killed by NATO forces in a pair of bizarre, seemingly unrelated, incidents Saturday.

One episode, 12 kilometres west of Kandahar, involved a Canadian battle group patrol and a man the army implied may have been mentally unstable.

This supports the mental illness of your posting.

As for the problems with these shootings

I didn't realize the one earlier resulted in a stand off.

Earlier this week, Canadian soldiers on a resupply convoy opened fire on an Afghan National Army convoy, wounding one officer. That incident apparently led to a short, tense standoff with Afghan soldiers.

[Canadian Blue]

You people are something else.

You show not the slightest bit of concern that the Canadian soldiers blew away a man with mental illness?

A man who was begging?

Rather you attack me because you claim I didnt post a link,when in fact I did

A beggar who uses chord,wire to keep his clothes on

And all you are concerned about is me not posting a link to the story?

Calling me a coward because I didnt?

When in fact I did.

So much for your concern for the innocent victim here

A link to a website Baylee.

Hopefully by monday you'll be banned.

[weaponeer]

So there are many possibilities here. If this person was mentally ill, how were the soldiers supposed to know that?? Perhaps the tailbs put this guy into a situation knowing he would be shot, therby creating a media storm. Who know's, that's why there is investigations.

I am currently doing pre-deployment training, based on what I have read of the incident on the news, it was a legal shoot. People have to keep in mind, if you where not there, you did not see what happened, you are outta the loop.

The talibs are not stupid, they know how to play to the media. They attack our troops with bombs & guns, they attack the people back here in Canada with the media. Demoralizing the homefront is tried and tested tactic, as proved by some posters here.

Anyhow, I have a 13km ruck march to do today, you all have a great day....

[BayLee]

"If this person was mentally ill, how were the soldiers supposed to know that??"

Well considering the man wasnt doing anything wrong,

I guess they are just a little too quick with the trigger ay?

[JerrySeinfeld]

.

It takes alot of courage to sit behind your computer, and bash the men and women over in Afghanistan .

Takes even more courage to sit behind a computer and basically say who cares about Afghani citizens being killed by our soldiers.Or cops indulging in kiddie porn

A real man/women would agree that its not a good thing.

But no not you CB.

You just want,as the saying goes,to shoot the messenger and not the message.

So how about it.

How do you feel about Canadian soldiers blowing away innocent civillians ?

It's called a WAR you moron. You don't think innocent civilians were constantly murdered under the Taliban?

Every war in history has resulted in civilian deaths, probably alot more than in today's sanitized wishful thinking lefty world where people go to war for a cause but nobody gets hurt.

I miss the days when we went in, kicked some German ass without the media trying to turn the whole mission on it's head by complaining about german civilian casualties.

What a fucking joke this world has become.