Why Are Chinese So Cruel

[Canadian Blue]

You should see what they do to people.

Most intelligent comment in this whole thread.

I am really shocked but then again not really surprised that so many people on an obvious right wing dominated forum would make jokes about animal cruelty and not condem very well known Chinese animal cruelty.

I myself am more of a Liberal Libertarian, but I fail to see the "right wing domination". I can see some people who exhibit nothing but ignorance and arrogance on this forum. I've come to the conclusion that using label's like right wing and left wing is just a fallacy in itself, as each person usually has different views on different issues.

As for animal rights, sure we should treat all animals humanly [born and raised on a dairy farm], however I think we should be more concerned with actual human rights violation's before criticizing other countries for the way they treat animals.

[BayLee]

As for animal rights, sure we should treat all animals humanly [born and raised on a dairy farm], however I think we should be more concerned with actual human rights violation's before criticizing other countries for the way they treat animals.

Well I am not surprised coming from you that you think because we treat people so badly then to hell what we do to animals.

At least a person can say ..please dont do that,an animal cant

[Cameron]

Their animals, who gives a sh*t....if they don't like it they can write a letter to their MP's.....

[geoffrey]

If you ever been on a kill floor of an abbotoir that slaughters pigs , you would or rather could not make that statement.

Cows dont from what I witnessed, but pigs know that they are meeting the end.

Pigs are pretty smart actually, they can sniff out bombs.

So there may be a compelling arugment for sentience there. And if proven, we should stop eatting pigs and actually let them all run free...

[Riverwind]

And if proven, we should stop eatting pigs and actually let them all run free...

Well if we did that we could have to cull their population from the billion or so now down to the few hundred thousand that could actually survive in remaining wilderness. What people forget when they talk about animal welfare is most animals raised by humans would not exist if humans had no use for them. Many breeds of horses are going extinct now because they are no longer economic (the big Clydesdales are a good example).

[geoffrey]

And if proven, we should stop eatting pigs and actually let them all run free...

Well if we did that we could have to cull their population from the billion or so now down to the few hundred thousand that could actually survive in remaining wilderness. What people forget when they talk about animal welfare is most animals raised by humans would not exist if humans had no use for them. Many breeds of horses are going extinct now because they are no longer economic (the big Clydesdales are a good example).

I may have been saying that tongue in cheek...

As an abstract moral question though, can you eat a sentient being? Why not a Chimpanze then? Or a human?

[Canadian Blue]

Well I am not surprised coming from you that you think because we treat people so badly then to hell what we do to animals.

Yes, I do want to improve the rights of human's everywhere which is why I am a donor to Amnesty International.

At least a person can say ..please dont do that,an animal cant

Well I'm sure when a person is getting tortured, murdered, raped, or assualted, simply saying "please don't do that" will make much of a difference.

[Remiel]

As an abstract moral question though, can you eat a sentient being? Why not a Chimpanze then? Or a human?

Back to Deep Space Nine... In the episode I mentioned, they came upon some extremely useful medical research that had been done by a Cardassian doctor... using live Bajoran test subjects. To argue the merits of the morality of whether they should use the research or not, I think they set up a holodeck simulation where the doctor got to argue the case. Or maybe the doctor was really there. Or maybe it was Garak arguing... I don't really remember. What I do remember, is that the Cardassian doing the arguing pointed out that it was, he believed, the height of hypocrisy for Sisko to be questioning the research itself because of many medical advances that humans had made through use of animal research. He questioned the morality of discrimination based on intelligence, and so in his mind he saw research on animals and (humanoid) aliens to be morally equivalent, since both were sentient creatures. In the end, Sisko decided to destroy or cover up the research that had been obtained through the experiments. I'm not sure whether I agreed completely with his actions in the end, but it was a very thought provoking episode, in my opinion.

Also, there was an episode of Politically Incorrect where they were discussing the moral and ethical implications of whether a boy who was dying of cancer should be allowed to go out and shoot a bear as his " last wish " . Three of the guests were either against, or had their doubts. One guest, a Caucasian woman, said something like, " Sure he should get to go out and shoot one. Bears don't have any rights in this country. " Needless to say, this did not go over well with one of the other guests, an African woman, who was quick to point out how her predecessors didn't either. That shut the first woman up right quick.

[Borg]

What in the hell is a ball clamp?

Borg

(rodeos are harmful? hmm..horses and bulls transported in nice comfy vans, fed , vets on duty....damn can I be a rodeo horse?)

Are you sure? Maybe you'd like to think that through again. Go ahead...

2 interesting concepts for you: Electric prods & Ball clamps.

------

And I agree that the Chinesse case stands out as particularly horrid. I don't think that cultural relativism applies here. But go look at the investigative videos on the PETA web sites and you will realize that we are in no position to look down on them. Unfortunately...

[Borg]

Get a grip.

Killing an animal for food is entirely different than torturing it for entertainment.

I grew up on a ranch with 300 head. We killed 'em, we ate 'em -- but we never, never tortured them for fun. (dewlapping is not for fun, neutering is not for fun, de-horning is not for fun -- stabbing a horse or bull with spurs for the express purpose of getting it "angry" is torture IMO.

I read this and then thought about it while I was feeding the cows today.

I never heard a person who grew up on a ranch call it neutering.

Usually it was de-nutting, castrating or cutting their balls off.

I also never heard a ranch raised person say "stabbing a horse or bull with spurs to get it angry"

Come to think of it - any ranch raised person knows you do not "stab" with spurs.

You sure you are telling us the truth? You now have me very suspicious.

Borg

[Drea]

Yes it is called Darrone Ranch and is located 25 miles south of Quesnel.

I moved there when I was 9.

And yes, ffs, I meant castrating. I watched, but didn't do it though -- as a girl, in the 1970s, all I HAD to do was cook and look after the garden!

Nor did I even go near the grown bulls (scared of them) but I had a horse and a Yamaha 80 to boogie around on. AND we ate beef every friggin day.

I DID drive the silage truck and sell corn on the side of the road...

I'd help our hired hand feed the steers and as they put their heads into the trough he'd punch 'em in the nose for fun (made me mad).

The heifers were right beside the house and many times I helped with the birthing. For many years I wanted to be a vet. But alas at about 14 I discovered boys in the city and never looked back LOL.

I never used a spur in my life. Nor did my stepfather, so excuuuuuuuse me for not knowing the propery terminology. "Stabbing" is an acurate description however, so I used it.

But why am I justifying this to you -- for all I know you could have been feeding your goldfish that you "consider" cows... LOL

[Borg]

Ok - sounds legit.

By the way it is calving not birthing. Absolutely the best time of the year besides Christmas.

And stabbing is definitely not correct - pressure or raking - spurs are not used as a cruelty item - but as a control measure.

I use them daily - and my horse can move forward / back / side to side without the use of any other means of control. Very handy when roping.

Ever eat "oysters"? I think you know what I mean.

As for goldfish - I don't have any but my daughter feeds goldfish to her Oscars.

Borg

Yes it is called Darrone Ranch and is located 25 miles south of Quesnel.

I moved there when I was 9.

And yes, ffs, I meant castrating. I watched, but didn't do it though -- as a girl, in the 1970s, all I HAD to do was cook and look after the garden!

Nor did I even go near the grown bulls (scared of them) but I had a horse and a Yamaha 80 to boogie around on. AND we ate beef every friggin day.

I DID drive the silage truck and sell corn on the side of the road...

I'd help our hired hand feed the steers and as they put their heads into the trough he'd punch 'em in the nose for fun (made me mad).

The heifers were right beside the house and many times I helped with the birthing. For many years I wanted to be a vet. But alas at about 14 I discovered boys in the city and never looked back LOL.

I never used a spur in my life. Nor did my stepfather, so excuuuuuuuse me for not knowing the propery terminology. "Stabbing" is an acurate description however, so I used it.

But why am I justifying this to you -- for all I know you could have been feeding your goldfish that you "consider" cows... LOL

[Canadian Blue]

Personally from living on a Dairy Farm, I'd say that most farmers that I know would never intend to hurt or harm their cattle. For our farm atleast we always ensured that they were healthy, well fed, and had shelter. I hear some of these animal activists saying that cows should be free to roam the countryside, but at the same time that would probably cause more of them to die [roads] and really their wouldn't be any use for them.

[Drea]

Ok - sounds legit.

By the way it is calving not birthing. Absolutely the best time of the year besides Christmas.

And stabbing is definitely not correct - pressure or raking - spurs are not used as a cruelty item - but as a control measure.

I use them daily - and my horse can move forward / back / side to side without the use of any other means of control. Very handy when roping.

Ever eat "oysters"? I think you know what I mean.

As for goldfish - I don't have any but my daughter feeds goldfish to her Oscars.

Borg

Yes Oysters! I'd forgotten all about that. Mom battered fried 'em and we fed them to my uncle from the city -- we all laughed -- they were not really on the menu. We told him they were "Rocky Mountain Oysters" and he fell for it. HA!

We had cow horses (lol, not a mix of a "cowhorse" but working horses) as well and me my little nag would tag along when driving them up to the range. Never did we need spurs. And my little nag was a great cow horse, all I had to do was hang on, she did the rest.

I loved calving season - many times a cow would reject her calf and I would get to bottle feed it. Of course I tried to never get too attached because baby steers were food. Got attached to the little heifers tho!

Whatever we did to the animals on the ranch - branding, dewlapping, castrating, dehorning, etc was always done in the quickest, most painless way possible.

IMO, It takes an animal lover to get up at 2am and shove your arm into the vagina of a pregnant heifer to help get the calf out! Country kids find out about the birds and the bees real quick!

[Canadian Blue]

IMO, It takes an animal lover to get up at 2am and shove your arm into the vagina of a pregnant heifer to help get the calf out! Country kids find out about the birds and the bees real quick!

Ever get to perform artificial insemination?

[Drea]

No, we had 7 very horny bulls. LOL

They were Dad's favorites and got the best of everything! The best silage the best paddock the best medicine.

[margrace]

IMO, It takes an animal lover to get up at 2am and shove your arm into the vagina of a pregnant heifer to help get the calf out! Country kids find out about the birds and the bees real quick!

Ever get to perform artificial insemination?

That is done all the time on many farms, why do you ask?

[Borg]

It realy sickens me when I think of how the Chinese treat animals.

The pictures and film of what they do to bears that came out a few years ago disgusted me.

Now watching todays news and seeing film of what they do to dogs and cats for their fur.

Keeping them in bags,starving them.

Skinning them alive.

Then having the gall to sell the hair as fake fur.

So much cruelty to animals in the world

Actually dog is quite tastey when prepared properly - it was an emergency food in the arctic as well.

Fur hats are nice and warm - it takes about 4 average cats to make a decent hat.

Tell you what baylee - try it - you might like it.

Borg

[Canadian Blue]

No, we had 7 very horny bulls. LOL

They were Dad's favorites and got the best of everything! The best silage the best paddock the best medicine.

Seriously, we only had 1 bull to 200 cows. He was pretty lucky, that must have been bull heaven.

[Drea]

We also lent them out to other ranches in the area and charged a pretty penny for their "services".

[weaponeer]

Never thought I'd agree with baylee, treating animals like that for kicks is cruel. Is it any more cruel that killing babies in abortion clinics.........

[Canadian Blue]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/20/...lty-070220.html

Four months after a pup was allegedly tied to a truck and dragged until near death in Myron Thompson's riding of Wild Rose, the Alberta MP has asked Ottawa for tougher laws for animal abuse cases across the country.

Wild Rose MP Myron Thompson wants tougher laws against animal abuse.

(CBC)

In his crusade to fight animal cruelty, Thompson circulated a petition to humane societies and societies for the prevention of cruelty to animals across Canada. On Monday, Thompson tabled 111,896 signatures on the petition in the House of Commons.

"Let it be known as the Daisy Duke Petition, in memory of a pup killed in my riding," Thompson said, referring to the tortured Lab-border collie cross that had to be put down after it was allegedly dragged behind a truck.

A bill based on the petition has not yet been drafted by the Commons, but two other bills dealing with animal cruelty have been drafted in the Senate, Thompson said.

Continue Article

From her home in Didsbury, north of Calgary, Tamara Chaney watched on TV as her MP asked the House to update current animal welfare laws, which allow for a maximum penalty of six months in jail and/or a $2,000 fine.

"There [are] laws to protect people out there, and there just really isn't [tough legislation] to protect our pets or our strays or our wildlife or livestock," Chaney said in an interview with the CBC.

Chaney, the owner and operator of a dog-grooming salon, initiated the petition in October after learning about the case of two-year-old Daisy Duke. A vet euthanized the animal after it was found barely alive and abandoned in a ditch.

Daniel Haskett, 19, and a teen who cannot be named under the Young Offenders Act because he was 17 at the time, were charged with injuring or endangering an animal and causing unnecessary suffering to an animal. Haskett also was charged with obstructing justice. Daisy Duke was the Haskett family pet.

Haskett's trial on the animal cruelty charges is set for May 23.

Legislation would need limits

"Animals deserve to have some rights, they deserve to be treated with respect and love, just like any other being on the planet," Chaney said.

Police say Daisy Duke was likely dragged behind a vehicle.

Still, Thompson said any bill brought forward should have limits, and that traditional practices such as the castration, dehorning and branding of livestock should be allowed to continue as long as they are performed in a humane manner and closely monitored.

"Some things have been going on for centuries, and these normal practices … should be treated with the greatest respect," Thompson said.

"I can assure you, as a livestock producer once upon a time myself, and knowing others, that there's no one that has greater regard for their animals than the people that own them and raise them for those purposes," he said.

Morris Airey, the director of enforcement for the Alberta SPCA, said the group often works with the farm industry "to improve ways of doing things which cause less distress to the animals."

He said the Alberta SPCA works with rodeo associations to enforce rules that protect animals from being mistreated.