Marijuana In Canada

[shavluk]

we probably agree on most things political. i have some of my own issues. whats your point??

the other day you boasted what an open mind you have.

And he can google each of us,,,,, i am the uglier one hahhaha but only to prohibitionists

[ScottSA]

it is not "utter and complete nonsense", the US has the highest rate of incarceration by a wide margin-

"The US incarcerates a far higher percentage of its population than any other country, with its prison population accounting for fully a quarter of the world’s prisoners. In 2006, newly released Census Bureau data indicate, the US incarcerated population stood at 2.1 million. According to separate figures put out by the Justice Department, by June 30, 2006, the prison population stood at well over 2.2 million.

No other country in the world comes close to these numbers. The far more populous China ranks second, with a prison population of approximately 1.5 million. The number of incarcerated persons in the US now exceeds the population of all but three cities in the country, and is equivalent to the combined populations of Seattle, Boston, Atlanta and Washington, D.C."

This thoroughly dishonest, and your attempt to give it credence is dishonest as well. You quote 3 sources, but only one makes the claim of 22%...the "world socialist website". There is no possible way to ascertain the prison statistics for the world. How many, for instance, are in prison in Cuba? We don't know. How in God's name do they know the prison stats for China? No one else does. Do you believe everything you read or just the stuff you want to believe?

[trex]

And he can google each of us,,,,, i am the uglier one hahhaha but only to prohibitionists

heheheh! one thing we definitely have in common is a quest for more compassionate humanity... not purely for wealth and strict ideologies.

also in case you didnt notice, i dont like to use capitals or apostrophes much when posting online... and shavluk likes commas while i like dots...

;^)

[capricorn]

we probably agree on most things political. i have some of my own issues. whats your point??

the other day you boasted what an open mind you have.

I have an open mind but I am still inquisitive. It is better to be direct and ask than to assume or presuppose. I was not boasting as you put it. I was offering a glimpse to other posters of who I am as a person. Do you have a problem with that tbud?

I am encouraged to see that you follow all discussions on the forum, not just those that address and discuss your political ideology and preferences.

[capricorn]

And he can google each of us,,,,, i am the uglier one hahhaha but only to prohibitionists

shavluk, I am a "she". I'll take your word for it and pass on the google action.

[trex]

This thoroughly dishonest, and your attempt to give it credence is dishonest as well. You quote 3 sources, but only one makes the claim of 22%...the "world socialist website". There is no possible way to ascertain the prison statistics for the world. How many, for instance, are in prison in Cuba? We don't know. How in God's name do they know the prison stats for China? No one else does. Do you believe everything you read or just the stuff you want to believe?

you asked for a link, i gave you three. and the wikipedia site also meantions what you are missing-

"The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population." with references to this site to back up their claim-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15960666/

Report: 7 million Americans in justice system

One in every 32 U.S. adults behind bars, on probation or on parole in 2005

etc.

i dont "believe" anything unless it has a source. even then i can question it. I have also known this fact about prison populations for several years now. it was easy to find and there are many other sources, including statistics by the US department of justice. apparently you had no clue. Sorry if these facts make you uncomfotable.

how do you arrive at your conclusions, just fantasize and make up your ideas? lets see YOU start to back them up with something real.

[trex]

I have an open mind but I am still inquisitive. It is better to be direct and ask than to assume or presuppose. I was not boasting as you put it. I was offering a glimpse to other posters of who I am as a person. Do you have a problem with that tbud?

I am encouraged to see that you follow all discussions on the forum, not just those that address and discuss your political ideology and preferences.

i do not have a problem with it. only it seemed that you were trying to take a swipe at my credibility with a remark that was off topic. otherwise no harm done

[shavluk]

Yeah Cap we like all black people all don't play basketball eat fried chicken and call you homey.

The stereo types of the typical pothead is completely the reverse of the reality.

Carl Sagan wasn't that stupid and yet he smoked cannabis all the time.

You would be surprised at who uses cannabis. I just took all the lists off as you can do it yourselves.

As far as the sputterings of the ones too lazy to check statistics themselves and only spew their repulsion over jailed numbers of citizens in the states ,,,well who cares as even if we could show you that your thoughts are wrong on this issue that just from reading lots else here ,that is only the tip of the ice burg with your problems it seems.

Some of you people are down right dangerous and extremely misguided.

Enough to make me ashamed of you.

I said at the ndp convention in Quebec City last September when I ran for president of the federal ndp that I honestly believed after all my time trying to educate the non informed that in my mind it just may come down to a civil war.

yes a civil war between the enlightened and the ignorant.

I then asked which side they were on.

which side is everyone here on as if it isn't clear.

Edited October 9, 2007 by shavluk

[trex]

also noteworthy on the MSNBC article i gave as a link, is this comment-

"Today's figures fail to capture incarceration's impact on the thousands of children left behind by mothers in prison," Marc Mauer, the executive director of the Sentencing Project, a Washington-based group supporting criminal justice reform, said in a statement Wednesday. "Misguided policies that create harsher sentences for nonviolent drug offenses are disproportionately responsible for the increasing rates of women in prisons and jails."

This is one example the secondary, hidden punishment of these mandatory minimum sentences, the other lives that are harmed as a consequence. That and the lasting stigma of being an ex-con, trying to get their life going again is not easy. all this in light of the consequences of the actual offence, makes the punishment far harsher than the so-called crime of drug use.

[shavluk]

shavluk, I am a "she". I'll take your word for it and pass on the google action.

So are you a Capricorn?

You may not have read that one of my hobbies is astrology.

I like to give the neanderthals a couple of reasons to pick on me,hahha

It is interesting to me and after 25 years examining it I see why it is useful.

[shavluk]

you asked for a link, i gave you three. and the wikipedia site also meantions what you are missing-

"The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population." with references to this site to back up their claim-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15960666/

Report: 7 million Americans in justice system

One in every 32 U.S. adults behind bars, on probation or on parole in 2005

etc.

i dont "believe" anything unless it has a source. even then i can question it. I have also known this fact about prison populations for several years now. it was easy to find and there are many other sources, including statistics by the US department of justice. apparently you had no clue. Sorry if these facts make you uncomfotable.

how do you arrive at your conclusions, just fantasize and make up your ideas? lets see YOU start to back them up with something real.

I have to jump in here and admit I was using old statistics and I am saddened to see that indeed it is getting worse all the time.

I have been at this for a long time and the numbers are always going up sadly.

If you can open that mind of yours and just for one second believe the links,,,how does that make you feel?

Edited October 9, 2007 by shavluk

[shavluk]

How about the American deputy sheriff in Wisconsin who just blew away a whole house full of people with bullets?

Should all of us have to stop using alcohol because some like him cant handle it?

I wouldn't be surprised to hear he took cough drops and then the news will be he was a drug user.

[jbg]

it is not "utter and complete nonsense", the US has the highest rate of incarceration by a wide margin-

"The US incarcerates a far higher percentage of its population than any other country, with its prison population accounting for fully a quarter of the world’s prisoners. In 2006, newly released Census Bureau data indicate, the US incarcerated population stood at 2.1 million. According to separate figures put out by the Justice Department, by June 30, 2006, the prison population stood at well over 2.2 million.

No other country in the world comes close to these numbers. The far more populous China ranks second, with a prison population of approximately 1.5 million. The number of incarcerated persons in the US now exceeds the population of all but three cities in the country, and is equivalent to the combined populations of Seattle, Boston, Atlanta and Washington, D.C."

Maybe, just possibly, living in a free country creates more demands for responsiblity than exist elsewhere. Also, maybe, a free society is also one that tolerates disorder and nonesense less.

[shavluk]

Maybe, just possibly, living in a free country creates more demands for responsiblity than exist elsewhere. Also, maybe, a free society is also one that tolerates disorder and nonesense less.

Hile Hilter?????

Garbage

that is the worst excuse I have heard yet

for shame

[jefferiah]

Hile Hilter?????

Garbage

that is the worst excuse I have heard yet

for shame

I can tell you this much. Given the choice between America and China, Shavluk, I pick the home of the brave.

[jbg]

Hile Hilter?????

Garbage

that is the worst excuse I have heard yet

for shame

That is extremely offensive.

Let me say this. The indiscipline of Weimar Germany eventually led to the conditions where Hitler could be elected. I believe strongly that freedom requires maturity and self-discipline. But I don't think you wanted a serious response; you wanted to sicken and offend.

[kengs333]

That is extremely offensive.

Let me say this. The indiscipline of Weimar Germany eventually led to the conditions where Hitler could be elected. I believe strongly that freedom requires maturity and self-discipline. But I don't think you wanted a serious response; you wanted to sicken and offend.

You're wasting your time and energy. Somebody like him can't be reasoned with. I don't think he will be around here for all that much longer.

[jbg]

You're wasting your time and energy. Somebody like him can't be reasoned with. I don't think he will be around here for all that much longer.

Good point.

Those are, however, posts and not PM's. They have a much wider audience even if his garbage is the starting point that makes writing a post easier. It's a writing tool, essentially, not an effort to change his mind.

[trex]

Maybe, just possibly, living in a free country creates more demands for responsiblity than exist elsewhere. Also, maybe, a free society is also one that tolerates disorder and nonesense less.

that is a double maybe. that is almost orwellian in nature, it says that freedom is a prison. obviously that must be wrong, since a free society is more tolerant. the reason theres so much jail is not because theres so much freedom. thats kind of a reductio ad absurdum. there are many equally free countries where this level of incarceration isnt necessary. i am sitting in one of them, and i dont want it to go down the wrong road. we can see the example of drug war and mandatory incarceration in our friends to the south.

[shavluk]

Here's one for you.

This is directed at those still reachable not those just full of themselves.

The War on Pot: America's $42 Billion Annual Boondoggle

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/64465/

Yes 42 billion!!!

What would you buy if you had an extra $42 billion to spend every year? What might our government buy if it suddenly had that much money dropped onto its lap every year?

For one thing, it might pay for the entire $7 billion annual increase in the State Children's Health Insurance Program that President Bush is threatening to veto because of its cost -- and there'd still be $35 billion left over

Edited October 9, 2007 by shavluk

[bush_cheney2004]

For one thing, it might pay for the entire $7 billion annual increase in the State Children's Health Insurance Program that President Bush is threatening to veto because of its cost -- and there'd still be $35 billion left over

No...they should spend it on a Gun Registry instead...LOL!

The Americans will spend their money as they damn well please....and that includes busting dopers.

Ya Mon!

[Guest American Woman]

it is not "utter and complete nonsense", the US has the highest rate of incarceration by a wide margin-

"The US incarcerates a far higher percentage of its population than any other country, with its prison population accounting for fully a quarter of the world’s prisoners. In 2006, newly released Census Bureau data indicate, the US incarcerated population stood at 2.1 million. According to separate figures put out by the Justice Department, by June 30, 2006, the prison population stood at well over 2.2 million.

No other country in the world comes close to these numbers. The far more populous China ranks second, with a prison population of approximately 1.5 million.

"Chinese human rights activist Harry Wu, who spent 19 years in forced-labor camps for criticizing the government, estimates that 16 to 20 million of his countrymen are incarcerated, including common criminals, political prisoners, and people in involuntary job placements."

That figure sounds more believable to me.

Edited October 9, 2007 by American Woman

[shavluk]

How do you feel than as the """land of the free"""

to jail the "SECOND" most then

with 70-80% of those in jail over victimless drug crimes?

Please look at the point and not the statistics because if we were talking about china jailing drug users here no one would care or not understand that as we know china is being led by bush's cousins.

And by the way its based on population,,,,,,remember

China at 20 million is like the states having 300 thousand in jail as china has 1.5 billion people and so we are still correct

Edited October 9, 2007 by shavluk

[Guest American Woman]

And by the way its based on population,,,,,,remember

China at 20 million is like the states having 300 thousand in jail as china has 1.5 billion people and so we are still correct

I don't get what point you're trying to make here. Sounds as if you're recognizing that China has a lot more people in prison per capita than the U.S. does, which is what I was saying.

For the record, there are other countries whose 'official figures' I don't trust any more than I trust China's. What about North Korea, for example? What do they claim?

Edited October 9, 2007 by American Woman

[shavluk]

So are you agreeing with the land of the free jailing all these drug users?

Or are you saying being like china is good?