Marijuana In Canada

[guyser]

Whether it is chemical or pychological is irrevelvent - people still get addicted and society has to deal with the consequences of that addiction. In some ways dope is less toxic than alcohol (never heard of a death by dope poisoning). OTOH, it takes a lot longer to get over the effects of a dope addiction.

No it is relevant. It is not a physical addiction. It is addiction that is equal to getting dumped by some girl. It is merely a mental thing, as in I want some, not a need that the body is producing.

Cigarettes are the hradest to kick. Booze a close second, pot....not even on the list. Honestly, you need to realize what the truth is. I dont advocate that you light up, although not a bad idea, but the truth of the matter will enlighten you.

The trouble is the US can easily make it our problem.

Only with a right wing White House. But that aside, it can be turned around rather fast.

[guyser]

OK buddy have your say, but I certainly don't suffer fools well whose idiocty has been personally oppressing me for 2/3 of my lifetime!

You may wish to beg for these blockhead's approval, not I.

I am not looking for approval from anyone.

But you fail to stop for a moment to remeber that for some here anyway, they may have jobs and positions that they cannot openly come on a forum and advocate your stance, or back you up.

Employers have for years used internet to find out stuff about candidates. Many have failed the job interview for postings they have made elsewhere.

Now do you get it?

[KO2]

"But I dont think I want you as my pitchman. The other side entrenches when you speak"

Who the hell appointed you kingshit, guyser?

Or is that just you spouting out, like I do too?

What kind of idiot presumes to speek for everyone else on a forum?

Edited July 12, 2007 by KO2

[Riverwind]

No it is relevant. It is not a physical addiction. It is addiction that is equal to getting dumped by some girl. It is merely a mental thing, as in I want some, not a need that the body is producing.

I suggest you do some research on addictions. 99% of all addictions are psychological - even with drugs like heroin or cocaine. We would not have a problem with addiction in society if it was simply a physical problem because we could simply lock up an addict for 60-90 days until they get through the physical withdrawal.

[guyser]

"But I dont think I want you as my pitchman. The other side entrenches when you speak"

Notice that I said "I dont" and " I want " , meaning of course me. Remember that while you read this next gem....

What kind of idiot presumes to speek for everyone else on a forum?

"Speek" for everyone ?

You can go right ahead and shoot yourself in the foot everytime you post. Its your right and damn it, you will fulfill that legacy.

[KO2]

Guyser, you still don't get it.

People with real courage do,

F*** the law of oppression where you might fear employers and all that crap.

Some people don't like to give the oppressors the control through fear of what they can do to you.

There are people with real courage that are always at the forfront of change.

Your way has been the reason why the oppression continues.

The times they are a changing. The rule of idiots has taken us to the begining of human and species extinction.

People are getting pissed righ the heck off with this costly, dangerous rule by morons.

It is time to stand up and be counted not hide because big moronic brother wants to have you afraid of them.

Worry about your own course in life, Guyser, and don't presume everyone is satisfied with your boring soft- spoken revelations. Human's come in a wider spectrum than you know of.

Edited July 12, 2007 by KO2

[guyser]

I suggest you do some research on addictions. 99% of all addictions are psychological - even with drugs like heroin or cocaine..

Really? Care to cite that one?

Tell that to a newborn baby .Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is in your head little baby.Those deformities are caused by your psychological addictions kid. Dont worry when you are one year old, you will be normal. Yea right.

Cigarettes, cocaine,heroin et al are physical addictions, meaning the body is reacting to the withdrawal, a chemical reaction is taking place.

I have done my research. Might I suggest that one has not?

[guyser]

Worry about your own course in life, Guyser, and don't presume everyone is satisfied with your boring soft- spoken revelations. Human's come in a wider spectrum than you know of.

You want to debate and belittle the people in your corner you go right ahead.

As you likely know, that is one sure fire way to build that base of people supporting you.

And I dont get it.....sheesh.

[Riverwind]

I have done my research. Might I suggest that one has not?

You are simply repeating the misconceptions that many people have about the nature of addictions. 10-15% of the population has a genetic predisposition to becoming addicted to something. There is a lot of science that shows a genetic link with additions - Scientific American had an issue a couple months ago devoted to the topic.

However, genetic predisposition is not destiny. People only become addicts if other factors in their lives push them towards using mind altering substances. Once they start doing that many find they cannot stop until their lives fall completely a part. Now you could argue that such people would use any drug like alcohol. However, it is not that simple because different addicts prefer different drugs. Many dope addicts won't drink alcohol because they don't like the effect. Many east asians find drinking alcohol extremely unpleasent because of an enzyme they have that breaks down the alcohol in a different way than the rest of us. What this means is a society with more 'choices' when it comes to freely available mind altering drugs will find that they have more addicts.

That is why I say the physically addictive component of the the substance is largely irrelevant when it is consumed by someone with the biological predisposition to become an addict. The FAS kids you brought up are examples of people with a biological predisposition to become addicts.

There are a small number of drugs which are truely phsycially addictive like nicotine and have the power to trigger an addiction in people who are not predisposed towards addictions. Marijuana and alcohol are not as physically addictive.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Riverwind

[KO2]

There are some people, indicated by the totally spoon fed propaganda they regurgitate, that will never believe that 2+2=4.

They believe, that is the crux of their position.

Reason will never interfere with it, no matter how sweetly you spoon feed it to them.

It is precisely that fact that you must always waste your time to refeed them the stuff, that gives them away.

I believe that the first qualification for gathering knowledge is the you must seek it.

To date, I have yet to meet anyone that learned a thing, unless they made an effort to seek it out.

Someone who spouts idiocy continuously, reveals themselves to be an idiot to me.

I have no problem calling these people their proper names and feel as free to denegrate them, as they do me and have for 4 decades.

If this moron-appearing blogger really wanted to seek the truth, it is out there, easy to find.

This guy is probably cleverer than you, or I, guyser.

They just want to wear me down.

And they do get my goat, occassionally.

If some of these people wish to hold my ability to make a living over me for practicing my freedom of speech, I would not be happy working for them anyways.

Maybe I'm filtering out those idiot employers who don't deserve my talents, because they would oppress me for my ideas.

Everyone is different.

It is important to me that all people express themselves with pasion and their input, as the feel it.

I'm tired of the homogenized look of mass marketing all ideas in a prepacked strategy that has no room for individuality.

That is the real reason for this oppression, people are araid that something different might come about.

The age old fear of the one that is different.

I resent your attempts to play god of reason, and authority here, Guyser.

Your way is exactly the way of the oppressor.

We must all be the same, united, under my rules.

Edited July 12, 2007 by KO2

[Guest coot]

People still become addicts and find that that their lives fall apart because of it. The negative effects of Marijuana last much longer than other drugs because the THC builds up in fat tissue. Drink too much alcohol - you will be hung over but sober the next morning. Smoke too much dope you will still be high 2 or 3 days later.

It's odd that your opinion is based on complete falsehoods. There are lots of reasons not to like pot, but none of what you say is true. There is no mental effect that lasts more than a few hours after smoking pot and the effects are always completely gone after a night's sleep--with no hangover.

Also, no one becomes physically addicted to marijuana. You can smoke it daily for years and quitting cold turkey may cause you to crave it like you would a bowl of ice cream, but there are no withdrawal symptoms.

Nonetheless, some people have a considerable weakness for it and would spend their whole lives buzzed if they could afford it. I doubt they are performing to their greatest capacity in that state, and they are likely spending too much time "inside their mind" and not with their families.

But if the law in its infinite wisdom feels that should be a criminal offence, then the police should enforce the law to the fullest extent.

[Riverwind]

There is no mental effect that lasts more than a few hours after smoking pot and the effects are always completely gone after a night's sleep--with no hangover.

http://www.wellness.gatech.edu/ask/3_dr_bu...na/halflife.php

The half life of marijuana, or the amount of time it takes the body to break down and eliminate half the marijuana present in the body, is around four days. Generally, people who smoke even one joint per week are never completely free of marijuana in their systems.

The extreme effects of dope leave the system after a couple hours but the THC stays in the system much longer than alcohol.

Marijauna does not give you a hangover because it does not leave the system as rapidly as alcohol. I don't see this as a good thing.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Riverwind

[KO2]

Coots, I like what you said, but still think that you are not getting a full grip on the problem here.

"Nonetheless, some people have a considerable weakness for it and would spend their whole lives buzzed if they could afford it. I doubt they are performing to their greatest capacity in that state, and they are likely spending too much time "inside their mind" and not with their families."

Now the real problem lies right here again, let me point it out.

Are the couch potatoes that are contributing to America's burgeoning obesity problem performing to their best abilities?

Who's business is it, anyways, to judge who is performing properly?

Those who would set themselves up as such 'experts' are truly the dangerous ones, in our society.

Not pot smokers.

[guyser]

]The half life of marijuana, or the amount of time it takes the body to break down and eliminate half the marijuana present in the body, is around four days.

Being in "your system" is not the same as being in your blood stream causing effects as if you just smoked it.

It is in the fat cells, and it is metablized differently than booze, which is one of the reasons the police do not have a reliable test for driving impaired. The test indicate positive,but the courts know that the test does not indicate the usage time.

IOW, booze has a set metabolization, thus a .09 BAC (impaired) means that while they were driving they were impaired.

No such tests exists for mary jane.

Cocaine use can be detected in hair follicles amonth after use. Does that mean they are still high on coke? Nope.

[KO2]

Winyriver, it may bother you severely that THC stays in my blood but then all you have to do is not use it!

Lead is accumulative and its effects are proven deadly, so what!

maybe we should test for lead and criminalize those in whose blood it it is found.

By your reasoning we would all be safer then.

Are you young and just not up to adult reasoning speed?

If so I apologise as I thought that perhaps for being impatient with you, I thought we were equals in maturity, experience levels, and reasoning experience.

I can be an unreasonable guy sometimes when I get on a tangent, so I truly am sorry if I've been berating a child.

[Guest coot]

Those who would set themselves up as such 'experts' are truly the dangerous ones, in our society.

Not pot smokers.

I'm not saying I think the law makes any rational sense. I don't. But I think if it is going to exist, it has to be enforced. Otherwise, we have the current madness where we willfully facilitate organized crime while we engage in arguments about whether or not it has any effect because it shows up in a person's body fat. If the laws aren't enforced, people start to feel it's okay to break the law, which should never be tolerated. If the laws are enforced, people will no longer be complacent with the status quo and insist that irrational and destructive laws are taken off the books.

[KO2]

Coots, that is exactly the crux of it.

There is no possibility of enforcing these laws without causing a shift in our social values.

There can be no fantasy of hiring the police that would be required to hammer compliance from our society without becoming a police state.

The only way we could have compliance, is if enough people felt that way.

The public has repatedly called for decriminalization/legalization policies in all surveys asked, some reaching 65% consensus.

That means that the Citizens of Canada are at the status of having their government elected by less than 34 % of the people, try to impose a law that is not wanted.

This dilemma is the product of a dictatorial attitude in the highest level of our current leadership.

Harper is imposing something that will make Canadians less safe and which they don't want.

Is that the defenition of the kind of lawmaking we want in this country?

Edited July 12, 2007 by KO2

[jbg]

Your way is exactly the way of the oppressor.

We must all be the same, united, under my rules.

Let me propoose an anthem for you:

Oh Cannabis, our home grown native plant,

The true favorite bud, from Stoner's rented land,

With grow ops on the rise from West Van to Langley,

Some said to make from cannabis a million bucks tax free,

Cops seize the plants, occasionally,

but cannabis sells internationally,

Oh Cannabis the cash crop of BC

(written by "Bob and Dean")(anyone have a French version?)

[White Doors]

Guyser, you still don't get it.

People with real courage do,

F*** the law of oppression where you might fear employers and all that crap.

Some people don't like to give the oppressors the control through fear of what they can do to you.

There are people with real courage that are always at the forfront of change.

Your way has been the reason why the oppression continues.

The times they are a changing. The rule of idiots has taken us to the begining of human and species extinction.

People are getting pissed righ the heck off with this costly, dangerous rule by morons.

It is time to stand up and be counted not hide because big moronic brother wants to have you afraid of them.

Worry about your own course in life, Guyser, and don't presume everyone is satisfied with your boring soft- spoken revelations. Human's come in a wider spectrum than you know of.

You think your courageous because you smoke pot?

that is nice.

I think courageous would be handicapped people still going to work everyday. I think courageous is a mother and father still deciding to go on with life after their son commits suicide. I would call a soldier in Afghanistan who is scared they might be killed, yet still soldier on - courageous.

Your definition of courageous is laughable. Big deal you smoke pot.

I mean, who really gives a shit besides you?

You are not being oppressed you moron. get a grip.

Edited July 12, 2007 by White Doors

[Mad_Michael]

With grow ops on the rise from West Van to Langley,

Methinks the range you define is rather narrow here.

Yes BC tends to supply a majority of the US export market, but Ontario & Quebec is notable in completely supplying their own domestic markets with local produce at lower prices, greater availability and higher quality than ever before. I've got several cousins in the lower mainland and they often report local 'shortages' due to demand from the US export market.

Btw, rumour has it that some 90% (or more) of all indoor-grown hydroponic pot seized in North American can be traced in origin to the hybrid developed at the University of Guelph in Ontario (one of our leading agricultural academies, of course!) by some enterprising graduate students back in the late-1980's.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Mad_Michael

[Guest coot]

Big deal you smoke pot.

I mean, who really gives a shit besides you?

Uh, the criminal justice system? That's the point of the whole thread, I think--the fact that pot smokers have been made into criminals (i.e., oppressed) by the deliberate actions of this government.

[KO2]

And you don't see the lawlessness, organized crime, violence all around you caused by Prohibition?

Obviously if you think that smoking pot only affects me you are incapable of close observation.

Calling people nasty names and never offering a hint of your own reasoning attempts is the mark of a person who has no creative options of their own.

Sometimes the only nasty name that comes easily to an empty mind is the one they are familiar with from having accepted it as their own.

These people, easy to recognize from their crude unsupported statements, are always trying to define life according to their limited visions of what courage,achievement, is.

What would one understand of courage, having only ever been brave in cyber space?

Always recognize that the negative thrown at you, is the one the flinger feels the most insecure about, themselves.

Edited July 12, 2007 by KO2

[White Doors]

haha

I smoke pot from time to time but I don't feel the need for a 'law' to legitimize it.

Your insecurities dominate you.

Insecurity and paranoia are a symptom of cronic pot use btw.

ciao!

[KO2]

I agree this is is not a profitable venue to explore as we diverge from the major issues and become insultingly personal.

Apologies go out to those I might have offended. Sorry.

Although sometimes I think that I am perfect the evidence doesn't support it.

I resent the fact that because this totally illegal law has been forced on us for reasons that we are only dimly aware of, and continued to be enforced by invented lies contrary to the established evisdence, they are on solid footing. The perch people sit on is one of the established oppressive law, which really is not a point at which the evaluation of this situation starts.

There have been many laws that were later found to be counterproductive to good social order.

As a society matures, technology and social structure evolve, it is important that people grasp the real issues from a considered overview, rather than a simple trained response.

There is no indication anywhere from the evidence available, by close observation and study, that the impact of our prolific marijuana use has a negative social effect that isn't directly the fault of the law itself.

You prohibitionists feel that because I enjoy chronic use, that I don't wish to see a safer society with less drug use.

Let me explain it to you, I want a future where there is not a landscape with two factions with guns and colours, offering fraudulent choices, trampling the human rights of my grandchildren.

The safety of Canadians is at stake in a future where lawlessness and the proliferation of violence, drugs, and instability forcing rightwing reactions that may lead to a police state.

All because we fail to solve a simple problem by repealing the law.

In Canada, I repeat, the law came before there was any recorded incidents involving marijuana, in fact it was many years after the law came into effect that we saw a few incidents of use.

The entire proliferation of the current criminal empire-controlled, violent drug market and all of the associated problems have burgeoned despite the law. Some would say because of the law.

If that is the results of the law, yet we don't see a severe effect in any other areas, health issues, family violence, a rise in marijuana related driving deaths, a significant loss of production, significant social disorders of any kind unrelated to the laws, why not look closely at trying it without the law?

When "High" flying cross country on my flexwing, at every turn in the flight, because soaring is an opportunistic practice, decissions had to be made.

If below you there is a sea of trees and coring a thermal in the wind-drift will take you beyond reach of a landing field, there comes a point of no return where a wise pilot must make the correct decission.

No matter what he feels, how great his committment to the new direction, if he is wise, he will choose to abort the path that could lead to his demise.

This decission is reached by evaluating the evidence and then using rational deduction, adding up two and two should not involve how you feel about it.

If the evidence so blatantly points to the fact that some course you are following is terminal, it is wise to change course and go to plan B, rather than blindly forge on.

My goal is to have a personal free choice with no stigma or criminality attached to making it.

The hope for our society is that we become more peaceful, lawful, productive with less crime of all types.

You just don't understand the trauma I felt for my tennants when their vehiicles sustained hundreds of dollars damage, so the some junkie, crackhead, can grab a toonie towards his hundred dollar per day habit. He will to sell herion to your kids if it gets him that toonie.

By making it lucrative for a criminal to market the substances we create the market.

If that junkie got a presrciption filled out by the taxpayer at a cost of perhaps $5.00 per day we have saved society from tens of thousands of dollars of property damage, or fifty dope trans actions to possibly your or my kid, or home invasions.

This junkie would now be attached/ dependent on the state, not organized crime, for his direction. In this setting he becomes harmless to society. From this controlled vantage point he can choose his options: self medication and perhaps being a ward of the state forever, or hope and light at the end of the tunnel from programs designed to help him.

These are his personal choices whether there is a law or not. By getting rid of the law we stabelize society and control the future, not as it is now, Organized Crime controls the landscape and we react to their innovations on an always shifting wasteland of social dangers.

Edited July 12, 2007 by KO2

[jefferiah]

Only a harper you are, always ready to pounce with idiocy, never any facts.

Have you not done anything in your life except live vicariously in other people's as a critic?

Got no life of your own to base experience on.

Maybe you should stand up in Iraq as a true parrot patriot, another propaganda opportunity from your moronic masters that requires you to march to their tune.

I'm proud of the way stoners like me will eventually prevail over morons.

We will have repealed prohibition just by consuming tons of pot and overgrowing the crappy government!

Oh what fun that is!

Things that complainers and critics can only criticize and complain about, while we make it happen.

Let me just fire one up right now and have a good laugh at the laws and those mindless minions who love to be told what is what, because they can't figure it out for themselves!

Good morning America!

Get a grip on reality, leave a little enjoyment for the rest of us.

Boy is that BC pot ever good!

Maybe its your inferior American grown swag that causes your stoners to be stupider than us Canadians.

We do amazing things while high and have the documentation to prove it.

How bright is the average American anyways?

A few guys with boxcutters took you down quite a few notches, while you spend trillions on your military.

Perhaps we should send some BC bud to your government so that they might find solutions for the quagmire that they have created, oh great ones?

Now you've got something else to work on and criticize.

Have fun!

And how do I know there will be no facts forthcoming from you?

Lol. Actually I have been hearing the last few days that studies are showing Canadians know relatively little about Canada and I dont doubt it. As for all your pot statistics you are pretty much getting em from pro-marijuana sites. These are the people who quote studies or make up studies to say that not only is marijuana harmless, it also makes you drive better. Lol. Think about it dude. OK now as for you wanting to legalize marijuana....thats your opinion. A lot of people dont agree. No one is trying to opress you. It's not like you are being forced into a labour camp and beaten cuz you smoke pot. We all know people who smoke pot. There are places in the world where you can get some very very stiff penalties for being in possession of the stuff. And here I know people who smoke pot, and I am sure that all the American posters on here know people who smoke the stuff too....and these people are not being carted off to prison and cut off from society or anything.

I have read lots of material that says marijuana affects motor skills. And another thing is that it affects different people differently. While most people do have a pretty mild buzz and I would say its relatively less of an impairment than being drunk, there are people I have seen who occassionally get pretty "loopy" on it.

Look you say I can drive fine on it. Well first off a lot of drinkers say that same thing. Now to be fair, I believe that you probably do have reasonable motor control on the drug. Right. I am sure there are people who possess the ability to drive well when they are a smidgeon beyond the legal limit of alcohol. But the cops, the law---whatever---doesnt have time to seperate between the two.

Now lets say you agree then not to drive on marijuana. OK fine. We can legalize it and pull over people who are under the influence after being tested then. Right? No.....wrong! You mentioned Ross Reglabiati in a post. He said he had been around pot smoke at a party months prior to being tested at the Olympics. Do you see where this is going? Pot and alcohol metabolize alot differently. If I got drunk a week ago I am not going to fail the breathalizer today. Capiche?