Is Any Criticism of Israel

[Figleaf]

What people and not just Jewish people challenge is when people claim to be criticizing Israeli political, economic or social policies but in fact;

i-engage in negative generalizations against all Jews

ii-state Israel is evil

iii-deny Israel has the right to exist

iv-promulgate misrepresentations against the Jewish religion

v-promulgate misprepresentations as to the history of Israel, history of Jewsand the origin of Jews

vi-use debates against Israeli policies to express hatred towards all Israelis or all Jews.

So I don't get something... I do none of those things, but you still bitch when I criticise Israel's policies.

[Figleaf]

Its precisely people like the above that cause me and many others to be careful when we engage in any dialogue critical of Israel. We realize posters such as the above have a singular agenda to simply state Israel is "wrong" or "evil" . We weigh our words so we do not have to get into ludicrous debates with such people whose sole interest is to deny the existence of Israel and portray all Jews not just Israelis as evil.

Such dishonesty! It really is telling when someone (like Rue here) can't stick to fair discussion and resorts to blatant falsehoods about others.

While I have said Israel is wrong about many things, I have never said (and don't think) that Israel is evil.

Furthermore, I have never denied the existence of Israel, and am on record here supporting a two state solution.

Finallly, I certainly have NEVER 'portrayed' Jews in general AT ALL.

Rue's comments are false, and malicious.

[Catchme]

What Really Happened Fifty Years Ago?

by: Ilan Pappe

January - March 1998

The Link - Volume 31, Issue 1

Page 9

More then anything else the new scholars challenged the collective memory of most Jews in Israel, particularly the collective memory of 1948, a year that still fuels most of the principal Israeli myths. It had a twofold effect on Israeli historiography: it legitimized the historical narrative of the Palestinians on the one hand, and it somewhat “normalized” the national collective memory of Israelis on the other.

In their finding that it was not an Israeli David defeating an Arab Goliath in the 1948 war, the new historians sent a message to Israeli society that Israel is not an invincible state that can necessarily live by its sword and force its will by its army. Historical circumstances unfavorable to Israel can develop at any given moment. The nation should pursue paths that will gain acceptance by its neighbors.

Unfortunately, some Israelis, following this logic, support a strong nuclear potential. But this is not the message carried by the new historians. Their conclusion is that Israel must acknowledge its neighbors’ fears and understand that the Arab states and the Palestinians do not see the “Defense” in Israeli Defense Forces, but see only an army used again and again to expand the territory of the Jewish state. Israel has to recognize how the other side perceives it: a state established on the ruins of Palestine as the result of a long process of Jewish colonization beginning in 1882. Some Israeli scholars have begun not only to recognize this as a position of the other side, but as a truthful description of past events.

How important is this new outlook in shaping Israel’s future conduct and nature? It is a difficult issue and brings us to a more general question: how much does academia in general affect society as a whole?

The debate on Israel’s origins aroused great interest in Israel—but in most cases it generated angry reactions against what was seen as betrayal. Nonetheless, the Israeli discourse now includes references that no longer ignore alternative analyses of what occurred in the past. Some mainstream scholars, as well as authors of new textbooks for schools and producers of television and radio programs, accept at least some of the points made by the new scholars. Although arguing against the new view, they concede that Israel or Zionism is seen as maltreating the Palestinian population in ways that explain current Palestinian and Arab animosity. These explanations of Palestinian grievances no longer rest on the conventional depictions of Arabs as emotional people susceptible to irrational and fanatic behavior.

More importantly, the new way of looking at the myths of Israel’s foundation is being expressed beyond academia. Novelists, artists, filmmakers and playwrights have produced works with historical references that convey the messages emanating from the new scholars’ research to wider audiences. Of particular interest are films that portray a different kind of Palestinian, criticize the conduct of Israeli soldiers and show empathy to the aspirations of the other side in the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=35&aid=427&pg=9

Concluding remarks by the Israeli Historians from the Univrsity of Haifa, Israel, who have done a indepth research and analysis of the history, over the last 50- 60 years and have concluded the Zionist redition that has been fostered over the years is incorrect.

[scribblet]

Its precisely people like the above that cause me and many others to be careful when we engage in any dialogue critical of Israel. We realize posters such as the above have a singular agenda to simply state Israel is "wrong" or "evil" . We weigh our words so we do not have to get into ludicrous debates with such people whose sole interest is to deny the existence of Israel and portray all Jews not just Israelis as evil.

I appreciate your posts Rue, you state the facts and opinions clearly.

A good question to ask people who demonize Israel is to ask: Is it possible to ever hope to build a society with a culture such as Palestine/Hamas etc. a culture that knows only how to hate, destroy, kill and die with as many innocents around them as possible?

n Tel Aviv they called her 'a stinking Jew'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...363907,00.html

The phenomena of rising anti-semitism is not only outside of Israel, it is on the rise in Isrqael,by people who have come from the Soviet Union.

Yael Bernovsky Published: 02.12.07, 14:41 / Israel Culture

“I was walking my dog in Tel Aviv. When I went to cross the street there was a drunk- looking man standing next to me. My dog got scared and started to bark at him. I apologized and continued walking. I suddenly felt someone push me and I fell on the floor. The drunken man pushed me to the ground, took the leash and started to choke the dog. He was screaming at me “Stinking Zhidovka! (A derogatory name for a Jew in Russian). You Jews destroyed Russia and disturb all the normal people living here”. (Ella Shapira, a Russian immigrant)

Anti-Semitism? In Israel? Everyone is very worried about the rise of anti-Semitism around the world, yet recently there have been many headlines about anti-Semitic incidents here in Israel. Swastikas painted onto synagogues, desecration of headstones - these are no longer the legacy of the Jew in exile. The latest serious incident occurred in Bat Yam, where a group of teenagers burned an Israeli flag and mezuzahs.

[Figleaf]

A good question to ask people who demonize Israel is to ask: Is it possible to ever hope to build a society with a culture such as Palestine/Hamas etc. a culture that knows only how to hate, destroy, kill and die with as many innocents around them as possible?

Well, I don't know about those who demonize Israel, but it's a good question to ask, even though it often draws the rote answer from some quarters that 'no, Israel must never negotiate'.

Those who whinge that Hamas want's to destroy Israel are surprisingly juvenile about this matter. They act shocked and dismayed when they confront the fact that enemies don't like eachother.

In fact, for anyone in conflict who wishes to find peace, it is necessary for negotiations to take place with one's opponents. DESPITE the conflict.

The question, 'Should we 'expect' Israel to negotiate with implacable enemies?' has only one answer at a very practical level: If they want to reach a settlement, negotiation is the ONLY solution.

Now, as to the characterization of Palestinians as set exclusively and unalterably on the destruction of Israel, consider:

1) Negotiations (though not a conclusion) were possible with Arafat, and his credentials were hardly moderate.

2) The rhetoric of enmity is a natural resort for someone locked in a life-and-death struggle, and neither side should, based on rhetoric alone, assume that the other side won't change it's tune if offered a compelling reason.

3) Palestinian rhetoric is consistent with it's historic reasoning. Not totally sound reasoning, but a kind of reasoning nonetheless, and thus, it is inaccurate and unproductive to ignore the fact and nature of the historical reasoning by substituting an inaccurate and less useful vision of a monolithic culture of rabid murderers. Leaving aside the (un)fairness of that characterization, it should be abandoned because its inaccuracy makes it UNUSEFUL in the declared purpose of finding peace.

[Catchme]

The Canadian Jewish Community, like the Jewish Community in the British Isles, are stepping forward and reclaiming their voices from Zionist Israel.

For those who would like to attend here is an upcoming meeting

Not In Our Name

Jewish Voices Against Israel's Wars

Thursday, March 15

7:30 PM

Room 2211

Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE)

252 Bloor Street West (at St. George Subway)

Hear a diverse panel of Jewish Canadians speak out against Israel's wars and

occupations, and address how to build solidarity with the Palestinian

struggle for human rights, freedom and justice.

Moderator: Khaled Mouammar, President, Canadian Arab Federation

Speakers include: Abbie Bakan, Smadar Carmon, Charnie Guettel, Clare O’Connor, Henry Lowi, Herman Rosenfeld, Suzanne Weiss and bh Yael.

Organized by NION (Not in Our Name)

[email protected]

[Rue]

"Its is not anti simetic to criticize the sate of Israel"

Colin Powel

Of course not. How many Jews do you need to assure you of this and how many times?

[Rue]

["I appreciate your posts Rue, you state the facts and opinions clearly."

"The phenomena of rising anti-semitism is not only outside of Israel, it is on the rise in Isrqael,by people who have come from the Soviet Union.

Yael Bernovsky Published: 02.12.07, 14:41 / Israel Culture"

"Anti-Semitism? In Israel? Everyone is very worried about the rise of anti-Semitism around the world, yet recently there have been many headlines about anti-Semitic incidents here in Israel. Swastikas painted onto synagogues, desecration of headstones - these are no longer the legacy of the Jew in exile. The latest serious incident occurred in Bat Yam, where a group of teenagers burned an Israeli flag and mezuzahs.

"

Yes within and between Jews there can be anti-semitism. Absolutely. I personally believe the problem within the Jewish communities is no different then say the schisms within the Christian or Muslim sects.

It doesn't excuse them but no Jews are not a homogenous people and never have been.

Speaking for myself, a very reconstructionist/liberal Jew, I have had some tough experiences with more fundamentalist and orthodox Jews and even my own Rabbia in Toronto who made me decide to leave my synagogue! Being Jewish is often most hard with other Jews.

Within Israel society there has always been a difference between the arab or Tsfardic Jews and Ashkenazi or European Jews. The cultures are quite different.

The Russian Jewish community ranges from ultra-orthodox to complete atheist to leftist liberal to right wing ultra conservative.

Russian Jews have not mixed well with Arab (Tsfardic) Jews or Ethiopian Jews.

Your point that Jews can be anti-semitic to one another is of course true whether it be in Israel our outside Israel.

I personally believe the most ardent anti-semites are not just your usual Nazi-aryan Brotherhood KKK types, but people claiming to be Jewish but anti-Israel. Some of the worst anti-semites have been Jews when discussing Israel engaging in attacks against all Jews and Judaism as a religion.

Like all minorities, a portion of the Jewish people can be self-hating. Self-hating minorities come about because they feel if they are very critical of themselves or what they perceive as their Jewish characteristics, this will make them acceptable to others.

Jewish anti-semites in the Soviet or other Communist parties was not uncommon. Today I take great sadness in seeing not only Jews act viciously against one another in Israel but outside Israel in the name and guise of being anti-Zionist but in fact being self-hating.

Your post brings up a painful and fair comment and a complex one that is an important part of this discussion.

As for those posters who constantly feel guilty about criticizing Israel-may I say one more time as a Jew I am not stupid, I know people have the absolute right to disagree or challenge Israeli policies. I do. That was never the point. Avoiding making negative generalizations about all Jews when engaging such dialogue is the point.

Using the same reasoning and standard, I personally will nto demonize and insult all Muslims or talk about them in a negative way because I disagree with what some of their governments do or because of what some Muslims may say or because of terrorists who claim to be Muslim-I do not do this because I don't think its right to do it about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Gays, or anyone.

No I appreciate those posters who debate against Israel but do so without insulting all Jews or making generalizations against all Jews. I have had some heated debates with Black Dog about Israel or Myata but I n ever for one moment thought either ever were doing anything but debating as best they could and doing so with total respect.

Israeli and Palestinian policies both need to be criticized. How else can we learn or how else can we share ideas.

[Figleaf]

Your point that Jews can be anti-semitic to one another is of course true whether it be in Israel our outside Israel.

That't the most ridiculous nonsense I've heard in a long time.

Jews being anti-semitic to one another???? Jews hating Jews because they are Jewish?

It sure looks like some people around here are intent on destroying any possible meaning in the term 'anti-semitic'.

[Rue]

What Really Happened Fifty Years Ago?

by: Ilan Pappe

January - March 1998

The Link - Volume 31, Issue 1

Page 9

More then anything else the new scholars challenged the collective memory of most Jews in Israel, particularly the collective memory of 1948, a year that still fuels most of the principal Israeli myths. It had a twofold effect on Israeli historiography: it legitimized the historical narrative of the Palestinians on the one hand, and it somewhat “normalized” the national collective memory of Israelis on the other.

In their finding that it was not an Israeli David defeating an Arab Goliath in the 1948 war, the new historians sent a message to Israeli society that Israel is not an invincible state that can necessarily live by its sword and force its will by its army. Historical circumstances unfavorable to Israel can develop at any given moment. The nation should pursue paths that will gain acceptance by its neighbors.

Unfortunately, some Israelis, following this logic, support a strong nuclear potential. But this is not the message carried by the new historians. Their conclusion is that Israel must acknowledge its neighbors’ fears and understand that the Arab states and the Palestinians do not see the “Defense” in Israeli Defense Forces, but see only an army used again and again to expand the territory of the Jewish state. Israel has to recognize how the other side perceives it: a state established on the ruins of Palestine as the result of a long process of Jewish colonization beginning in 1882. Some Israeli scholars have begun not only to recognize this as a position of the other side, but as a truthful description of past events.

How important is this new outlook in shaping Israel’s future conduct and nature? It is a difficult issue and brings us to a more general question: how much does academia in general affect society as a whole?

The debate on Israel’s origins aroused great interest in Israel—but in most cases it generated angry reactions against what was seen as betrayal. Nonetheless, the Israeli discourse now includes references that no longer ignore alternative analyses of what occurred in the past. Some mainstream scholars, as well as authors of new textbooks for schools and producers of television and radio programs, accept at least some of the points made by the new scholars. Although arguing against the new view, they concede that Israel or Zionism is seen as maltreating the Palestinian population in ways that explain current Palestinian and Arab animosity. These explanations of Palestinian grievances no longer rest on the conventional depictions of Arabs as emotional people susceptible to irrational and fanatic behavior.

More importantly, the new way of looking at the myths of Israel’s foundation is being expressed beyond academia. Novelists, artists, filmmakers and playwrights have produced works with historical references that convey the messages emanating from the new scholars’ research to wider audiences. Of particular interest are films that portray a different kind of Palestinian, criticize the conduct of Israeli soldiers and show empathy to the aspirations of the other side in the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=35&aid=427&pg=9

Concluding remarks by the Israeli Historians from the Univrsity of Haifa, Israel, who have done a indepth research and analysis of the history, over the last 50- 60 years and have concluded the Zionist redition that has been fostered over the years is incorrect.

Well that settles it. Gosh and here I was thinking it was more complicated then that. Thanks for pointing this out. I will start calling up Israelis I know immediately and tell them to leave given the "new" way of thinking.

That God people like you are so modern and "new" age in your approach to things.

[Rue]

Your point that Jews can be anti-semitic to one another is of course true whether it be in Israel our outside Israel.

That't the most ridiculous nonsense I've heard in a long time.

Jews being anti-semitic to one another???? Jews hating Jews because they are Jewish?

It sure looks like some people around here are intent on destroying any possible meaning in the term 'anti-semitic'.

Figleaf do you ever read what you write? Do you ever think about what you write? Is your brain that inflexible when you hear something you can't understand all you can do is call names and go into blanket denial? The fact that you can't understand something doesn't make it ridiculous.

Sit and read this slowly. The fact that one is black doesn't mean they can't be racist. The fact that someone is Jewish doesn't mean they can't be anti-semitic. Many Gay people are homo-phobic. Many women hate being women.

Figleaf you really do have to try get out more or read or do something to challenge your brain into not being so rigid and all or nothing about concepts.

[Figleaf]

Your point that Jews can be anti-semitic to one another is of course true whether it be in Israel our outside Israel.

That't the most ridiculous nonsense I've heard in a long time.

Jews being anti-semitic to one another???? Jews hating Jews because they are Jewish?

It sure looks like some people around here are intent on destroying any possible meaning in the term 'anti-semitic'.

Figleaf do you ever read what you write? Do you ever think about what you write?

Yes and yes.

Is your brain that inflexible when you hear something you can't understand all you can do is call names and go into blanket denial? The fact that you can't understand something doesn't make it ridiculous.

Actually, if something makes no sense, it is often because it is senseless.

Sit and read this slowly. The fact that one is black doesn't mean they can't be racist. The fact that someone is Jewish doesn't mean they can't be anti-semitic. Many Gay people are homo-phobic. Many women hate being women.

Well, okay, I see what you mean there, but your examples gave me a different impression. A Russian Jew who hates Arab Jews is a racist, not an anti-semite. An Israeli lawyer who denounces the IDF is a political partisan, not an anti-semite.

[Catchme]

Jewish Opposition to Israeli Human Rights Crimes is Growing

Criticizing Israel is Not an Act of Bigotry

By JASON KUNIN

A grassroots revolt is underway in Jewish communities throughout the world, a revolt that has panicked the elite organizations that have long functioned as official mouthpieces for the community. The latest sign of this panic is the recent publication by the American Jewish Committee of an essay by Alvin H. Rosenfeld, entitled Progressive Jewish Thought and the New Anti-Semitism, which accuses progressive Jews of abetting a resurgent wave of anti-Semitism by publicly criticizing Israel.

This is the latest attempt to conflate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism in order to silence or marginalize criticism of Israel. This approach is widely used in Canada. Upon becoming CEO of the Canadian Jewish Congress, Bernie Farber declared that one of his goals was to "educate Canadians about the links between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism."

It is misleading for groups like the Canadian Jewish Congress to pretend that the Jewish community is united in support of Israel. A growing number of Jews around the world are joining the chorus of concern about the deteriorating condition of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories as well as the inferior social and economic status of Israel's own Palestinian population.

Despite this effort to absolve Israel of responsibility for its treatment of Palestinians, Jewish opposition is growing and becoming more organized.

Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic, nor does it "bleed into anti-Semitism," a formulation that says essentially the same thing. Some genuine anti-Semites do use Israel as a cover for maligning the Jewish people as a whole, but it is fallacious to argue that anyone who criticizes Israel is anti-Semitic because anti-Semites attack Israel. There are some anti-Semites who support Israel because they are Christian fundamentalists who see the return of Jews to Jerusalem as a precondition for the return of Christ and the conversion of Jews to Christianity, or because they are xenophobes who want to get rid of Jews in their midst. Anti-Semites take positions in support of and in opposition to Israel.

http://www.counterpunch.org/kunin02242007.html

[obsidian]

I have never really read that much into Israel, however there are a few concepts i grasp

1. Israel is a land mass besides Lebanon that was created a short time after WW2 (1948?)

2. Israel prior to this was not a country, the country itself was drawn on a map and given to the jews.

3. Not much consideration could have been given, this is the exact same as stealing land. How can you expect anything less than absolute hatred? Retaliation is almost guaranteed.

4. Lebanon is "ghetto", they have no high tech US backing. They may be terrorist, but it is the only effective way for them to wage any form of warfare. By our standards its barbabic, but if china just came and declared nova scotia a bhudist sanctuary, run independently by the bhudists we would surely retaliate and try to take back OUR land.

5. No consideration or reperations to the Lebanese for the land. Was it even paid for...?

I'm positive im missing something, but this is my limited understanding of the situation. I don't want to offend anyone, but to me any attack on Israel by Lebanon appears to be justified. As for Lebanon being anti-semetic, I bet they would be anti-anyone who stole their land.

[jbg]

Israeli and Palestinian policies both need to be criticized. How else can we learn or how else can we share ideas.

Critics of Israeli policies, even in Israel, do not face harm or even death.

[jbg]

I have never really read that much into Israel, however there are a few concepts i grasp

1. Israel is a land mass besides Lebanon that was created a short time after WW2 (1948?)

2. Israel prior to this was not a country, the country itself was drawn on a map and given to the jews.

3. Not much consideration could have been given, this is the exact same as stealing land. How can you expect anything less than absolute hatred? Retaliation is almost guaranteed.

4. Lebanon is "ghetto", they have no high tech US backing. They may be terrorist, but it is the only effective way for them to wage any form of warfare. By our standards its barbabic, but if china just came and declared nova scotia a bhudist sanctuary, run independently by the bhudists we would surely retaliate and try to take back OUR land.

5. No consideration or reperations to the Lebanese for the land. Was it even paid for...?

I'm positive im missing something, but this is my limited understanding of the situation. I don't want to offend anyone, but to me any attack on Israel by Lebanon appears to be justified. As for Lebanon being anti-semetic, I bet they would be anti-anyone who stole their land.

You're missing a lot. The elephants hiding in the corner here are the Bible and the Holocaust.

[PolyNewbie]

The semitic people are Arabic. They are the ones that most often get accused of being anti semitic. Thats sick part of all this douyble speak designed to trap dissenters. Soon it will be legal to shoot anti semites and anti semites will be anyone that doesn't like the banks or thinks 911 is an inside job or stands against the imperial conquests and massacres of women and children and MEN too.

[Catchme]

The Bible should have absolutely nothing to do with anything geo-political.

The Holocaust was used a a bat to get Israel created and has been used since to try and close down legitimate discourse on Israel's actions. This should NOT be.

Zionist within Israel and external to Israel have been expropriating ALL Jewish voices, and then labelling those who disagree as being anti-semite. Not true! And that is why Jewsih voices around the world are standing up and saying NO.

It is wrong to criticize all Jews for Israel's wrongdoings, yet Israel's leadership and its supporters in the Diaspora consistently encourage this view by insisting that Israel acts on behalf of the entire Jewish people.

This shifts blame for Israel's crimes onto the shoulders of all Jews. But Jewish critics of Israel demonstrate through their words and deeds that the Jewish community is not monolithic in its support of Israel.

Defenders of Israel often argue that Israel is forced to do what it does -- to destroy people's homes, to keep them under the boot of occupation, to seal them into walled ghettos, to brutalize them daily with military incursions and random checkpoints -- to protect its citizens from Palestinian violence. Palestinian violence, however, is rooted in the theft of their land, the diversion of their water, the violence of the occupation, and the indignity of having one's own very existence posed as a "demographic threat."

http://www.counterpunch.org/kunin02242007.html

[Rue]

The semitic people are Arabic. They are the ones that most often get accused of being anti semitic. Thats sick part of all this douyble speak designed to trap dissenters. Soon it will be legal to shoot anti semites and anti semites will be anyone that doesn't like the banks or thinks 911 is an inside job or stands against the imperial conquests and massacres of women and children and MEN too.

Oh my more words from the follower of Lyndon Larouche. We know Lyndon loves Jews and Israel. Give it a restw ill yah? Your parroting his tiresome anti-semitic buzz phrases is boring.

As for your nonsensical comments about Arabs not being able to be anti-semitic since they are semitic, sit for this one. Yes Jews can be anti-semites and so can Arabs just like blacks can hate blacks and be racist and gays can hate gays and be homo-phobic. Go ask Lyndon about that.

As for your Lyndon Larouche gross generalization of Zionists dominating Jewish dialogue, etc., give it a rest. The day you speak for Jews is the day I speak for Lyndon Larouche followers. Also for someone accusing others of following cults, careful, Lydon Larouche is not exactly a religious figure.

Now just so we understand ourselves, Jews can not be lumped in simplistic generalized categories as you are inferring. The fact that Jews support Israel or do not support Israel is not something you can generalize. We supporters of Israel differ as to what we support and don't support with Israeli foreign policy.

Try get your Larouchian brain to understand supporting Israel is not one simplistic notion and that supporters of Israel can and do criticize it. We just make sure when we talk with people like you who can only think in black and white and rights and wrongs, not to say anything too complex lest you turn it into another excuse to generalize.

[obsidian]

ok you said to "elephants" im missing, being the bible, and the holocaust

uh wasnt church supposed to be sepperated from state a LONG time ago? and whats the relevance, and please quote the scripture in the bible (you didnt even mention if new or old testament) that says the jews should what? own part of lebanon...? the only scripture that i know of that mentions the returning of the jews to the holy land is the book of revelation, which is talking about the apocolypse...

and you said the holocaust. i agree the jews should be compensated for...BY GERMANY. how does it make sense to just steal it from another country.

[jbg]

The semitic people are Arabic. They are the ones that most often get accused of being anti semitic.

That is as much a linguistic nitpick as arguing over harbor (correct spelling) vs. harbour (corrupted spelling). Everyone knows that the term "anti-Semitic" means, in modern terms, anti-Jewish.

[Catchme]

Harbour correct spelling harbor corrupted spelling

[jbg]

Harbour correct spelling harbor corrupted spelling

Wrong!!! Harbour is the spelling in a country that uses two languages, not one.

[Catchme]

Wrong harbour is the British spelling of it, the Americans dropped the u and corrupted it. Just like labour

[jbg]

Wrong harbour is the British spelling of it, the Americans dropped the u and corrupted it. Just like labour

And part of Britain speaks Welsh.