Gunter nails it

[B. Max]

Mark Holland eastern liberal MP let the cat out of the bag earlier this week live on Adler. When he announced the Liberals plan to impose what would be the NEP 2 under the guise of environmental protection.

The Liberals were worried that if Alberta and the West became too rich, Ottawa would lose some of its ability to dictate national policy. Ideas other than the Liberals' might become influential and that would never do.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news...14-f9bf33b29e24

[Canuck E Stan]

Mark Holland eastern liberal MP let the cat out of the bag earlier this week live on Adler. When he announced the Liberals plan to impose what would be the NEP 2 under the guise of environmental protection.

The Liberals were worried that if Alberta and the West became too rich, Ottawa would lose some of its ability to dictate national policy. Ideas other than the Liberals' might become influential and that would never do.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news...14-f9bf33b29e24

When asked whether the Liberals might nationalize the oilsands if Alberta refused to go along with Ottawa's development caps, Holland said his party would try to "work with them collaboratively," but "of course, if they refuse to work with us ... there will be consequences."

"...there will be consequences." Now that's a scary political party.

Has Dion been getting political advice from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez?

[B. Max]

When asked whether the Liberals might nationalize the oilsands if Alberta refused to go along with Ottawa's development caps, Holland said his party would try to "work with them collaboratively," but "of course, if they refuse to work with us ... there will be consequences."

"...there will be consequences." Now that's a scary political party.

Has Dion been getting political advice from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez?

They are cut from the same cloth.

[jdobbin]

Has Dion been getting political advice from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez?

I guess it will suck for you when the Tories put emission caps far stronger than what was planned initially by them.

[Ricki Bobbi]

"...there will be consequences." Now that's a scary political party.

Has Dion been getting political advice from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez?

Holland could only wish he were as poltiically astute as Chavez.

Consequences?

The only consequence of such an ignorant comment is the Liberals losing the next election...

[August1991]

The real story here is that most media have completely ignored Holland's comments. Why? I don't know exactly but I suspect that many journalists are as confused by the global warming story as the rest of us.

For the record, here's Holland's clarification on the Liberal Party website:

“The Liberal Party will continue to support the development and expansion of the oil sands in a reasonable and sustainable manner,” said Mr. Holland. “Any other characterization of our position is nothing more than an attempt to fear-monger. If this is the reaction that we can expect to calls for sustainable development of the oil sands, the Conservatives must be willing to develop them no matter what the environmental or social costs.”

Mr. Holland was reacting to comments by Conservative MP Brian Storseth in the House of Commons today where he claimed that the Liberal Party would shut down the oil sands completely. Specifically, Mr. Storseth referred to Mr. Holland’s interview with Charles Adler of the Corus Radio Network yesterday where the topic of the oil sands was discussed.

“In the interview, I made it clear that unlimited expansion of the oil sands at the fastest speed possible is unsustainable,” said Mr. Holland. “That does not mean shut them down. Oil production from Northern Alberta is Canada’s largest source of greenhouse gases, and to rapidly expand operations there would not be consistent with our attempts to reduce Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions.”

On what basis can he claim that "oil production from Northern Alberta is Canada’s largest source of greenhouse gases"?

Frankly, this retraction or correction is almost as bad as his original "exactly".

[Ricki Bobbi]

On what basis can he claim that "oil production from Northern Alberta is Canada’s largest source of greenhouse gases"?

Frankly, this retraction or correction is almost as bad as his original "exactly".

Guaranteed the Conservative war room is keeping track of all this flip-flipping on yet another issue.

The Conservatives will successfully run on this ongoing, and growing, record of waffling during the election...

My G*d could you imagine if Mark Holland ever became a cabinet minister? Another Liberal *leader* who never worked more than co-op terms outside of the party. tsk tsk tsk

[madmax]

The Liberals were worried that if Alberta and the West became too rich, Ottawa would lose some of its ability to dictate national policy. Ideas other than the Liberals' might become influential and that would never do.

You have a link that isn't subscription?

[madmax]

[The only consequence of such an ignorant comment is the Liberals losing......

.......Another seat in Alberta.

[Ricki Bobbi]

.......Another seat in Alberta.

You had to selectively edit my post to come up with such an inspired response?

Quality response sir.

So I guess you agree with the majority of my post then.

[madmax]

You had to selectively edit my post to come up with such an inspired response?

Quality response sir.

So I guess you agree with the majority of my post then.

Yup!

[Ricki Bobbi]

Yup!

Thanks.

[jbg]

When asked whether the Liberals might nationalize the oilsands if Alberta refused to go along with Ottawa's development caps, Holland said his party would try to "work with them collaboratively," but "of course, if they refuse to work with us ... there will be consequences."

"...there will be consequences." Now that's a scary political party.

Has Dion been getting political advice from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez?

Or from Gagliano and GroupAction.

[hiti]

Quote: Call a halt, Albertans

Peter Lougheed is urging a moratorium on oil sands projects while the province's residents are asked what kind of development they want, and at what pace

It's unwise, Mr. Lougheed argues, to use natural gas, a relatively clean fuel, to produce the heat needed to extract relatively dirty oil from the bitumen. That gas should be used for other purposes, including perhaps building up a petrochemical industry. It's too valuable and clean to be used for the oil sands.

It was wrong, he thinks, to have allowed so many projects to proceed at once. The mad rush overheated the provincial economy, especially in the oil sands areas. The cost of labour and materials skyrocketed. Many projects are running over budget. The infrastructure of Fort McMurray and other communities can't cope. They need schools, sidewalks, hospitals, accommodation, parks.

The provincial royalty scheme cheats Albertans, he insists. The taxpayers get very little up front -- a 1 per cent royalty -- until the capital costs of the projects are paid when the royalty rises to 25 per cent. Albertans own the resources, he argues, and they should get more faster.

Now comes the really radical part. Mr. Lougheed thinks a moratorium should be declared on oil sands projects. Public hearings should be held during the moratorium. Albertans should be asked what kind of development they want, and at what pace. -end quote

http://thestar.workopolis.com/servlet/Cont...?section=Energy

http://www.pembina.org/media/op-ed.php?id=1217

So Mark Holland is saying the exact same as Peter Lougheed. And it makes perfect sense to put some breaks on the giving away of Alberta's NON-renewable resources.

It is Steve who said that he would regulate emissions which includes Alberta.

Quote: "The government does intend to regulate emissions across all sectors including the automobile sector,'' Harper said in an exclusive interview with The Canadian Press.

[August1991]

So Mark Holland is saying the exact same as Peter Lougheed. And it makes perfect sense to put some breaks on the giving away of Alberta's NON-renewable resources.

Mark Holland was not saying the same thing as Lougheed.

Lougheed has spoken many times about the royalty regime in place and the duty of the Albertan government to husband this resource on behalf of future Albertans.

From what I can gather, Holland is talking about federal nationalization or intervention.

In case you missed this, it's a good read:

Last Thursday, Mr. Holland told Charles Adler, a national syndicated radio talk-show host, that the Liberals were prepared to restrict oilsands growth to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions.

"I think what you are going to see is we're going to say you cannot exploit that resource, basically go in there and pump it out as fast as you can to give it to the Americans and sell out our national interests and blow apart our emissions targets," he said.

A day later, he told another radio talk-show host, Dave Rutherford, in response to a question about whether a Stephane Dion government would consider nationalizing oil companies if they didn't meet Kyoto Protocol standards, that, "If they refuse to work with us ? there will be consequences."

Nationalization? Growth controls? Cutting off oil exports to the Americans? Are the Liberals this stuck in the past?

...

The oil-and-gas industry is no longer an Alberta island. It is dominating the economies of British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, and is poised to take over that of the Northwest Territories.

...

Putting limits on oilsands growth would maim Canada's economy, while broadcasting to the world -- now that the oilsands are widely known as the second-largest deposits after Saudi Arabia's -- that our energy sector is no longer open for business and that our federal government is competing with Hugo Chavez for the most insane oil policy.

[geoffrey]

The Federal government has no constitutional authority to nationalise the oil industry by force... if Syncrude or Suncor wanted to sell to the government, the government would certainly pay a massive premium.

Which again, only makes us shareholders richer and the average taxpayer poorer.

Constitutional Act, 1867

92A. (1) In each province, the legislature may exclusively make laws in relation to

( a ) exploration for non-renewable natural resources in the province;

( b ) development, conservation and management of non-renewable natural resources and forestry resources in the province, including laws in relation to the rate of primary production therefrom; and

( c ) development, conservation and management of sites and facilities in the province for the generation and production of electrical energy.

The Federal government has absolutely ZERO constitutional authority on the matter. Ottawa cannot legislate hard caps on oilsands development. Too bad Harper and his band of merry Quebecois, but it's not happening. Alberta will keep it's oil wealth and dictate it's development on our terms, and our terms alone.

[fellowtraveller]

Long past time to point out that Mr Lougheed has both a small audience and little influence in Alberta.

Yesterdays man, but he remains the darling of the eastern media.

Nobody has forgotten his role in the NEP days.

[guyser]

Alberta will keep it's oil wealth and dictate it's development on our terms, and our terms alone.

It is a shame that eastern Canada can't do the same with our money generation.