Is Canada To Socially Liberal

[Alliance Fanatic]

I have a question is Canada to socially liberal. I mean really. Lets look at the trend. Canada was once one of the most right wing countries in the world before Trudeau, Pearson, and Chretien, got a hold of it. Canada used to be built on the values of family, free markets, strong military, and strong communities, [wow the politically correct Canadians must think that Canada was once facist]

So what happened to Canada, well I would say Canada is basically dead, atleast the Canada which 100,000 Canadians died for is dead. It has been replaced by a society which does not value human life, democracy, or the family. If you ever looked at a newspaper during world war 2, they would continuosly ask for Canadian's to prayer for our brave soldiers in Europe, now if a newspaper did that they would probably get a human rights complaint.

Canada could possibly make a turn around, however I believe it would be extremely hard to do so. Lets look at what a socially liberal country has cost us,

- Massive increase in date rapes, and sexual abuse

- More Violence in our country today

- Gay pride, has now turned into HIV pride, and children as young as 7, are now learning about the joys of homosexuality.

- One counsellor was fired, for questioning some reading material in a school which talked about anal sex, and had perverted pictures in it.

- 100,000 abortions per year

- a limit of freedom of speech, and expression

- a deteriotation in our military

- child pornography being considered art

- 65% of Canadian's said this country is not worth fighting for

- Canada's greatest hero, is Pierre Trudeau, who mocked Canadian's who volunteered to fight the nazi's in World War 2, Trudeau also supported brutal communist regimes.

I doubt that was the type of country that 100,000 Canadian's died for. Sure we have become a socially liberal paradise, but at what cost? Most social liberal's point out that seniors are the only ones against gay marriage, and many of these socially liberal initiatives, and social liberals even gloat about how they will die off soon. Strange social liberals want war veterans, and those who worked extremely hard to build this country to die off as soon as possible, after all WAR VETERANS WERE THE ONES WHO FOUGHT FOR THAT BRUTAL NAZI REGIME CALLED CANADA.

[Schilly]

I agree that Canada is too socially liberal and I'd like to speak on that in terms of our military.

If I heard correctly one afternoon while watching CBC shortly after our recent ISAF deaths in Afghanistan, there was a general speaking about our forces. He went on to say something to the extent of "sixty thousand members of the armed forces may seem like a lot..."

No, no it doesn't sorry. Now someone correct me if I'm wrong (for the numbers of our forces) but being a G7 Nation we shouldn't have the 37th largest military in the world and that cannot be denied in any way. More liberal thought has to do with this. The passion to defend Canada left with the money that was put into our military so it's the fault of the people and the government in the end.

Though you know more importantly what I believe a lot of the problem is? Advertising. By comparison with the US (yeah it's drastic but bare with me) our advertising for our armed forces is pathetic. In the States they make super appealing promotions for their forces. People are proud to want to enter the forces there in the States (this shouldn't have anything to do with our reputation as 'peacekeepers'). I'm not saying we have to fund our military ridiculously; neverless, more financing is in order indeed and a lot of this has to go toward advertising. It's not about going on some warpath, it's about checking if our collective balls are still there as Canadians.

We have a country before we have anything else. People just don't care about it as much as they used to. So what if we'd be easily defended by the States, standing up for ourselves should be done. All I'm saying is a move toward miltaristic respectability should be made because around the time of WW2 we were at 6th largest in the world.

[Moderate Centrist]

Massive increase in date rapes, and sexual abuse

- More Violence in our country today

Alliance Fanatic

Where is the statistics to back this up?

Define massive. Massive compared to what?

More violence? What are you referring to here? If it's crime - crime has been declining for the past 20 years and violent crime only affects a minute portion of the Canadian population.

The decline is religion goes hand in hand with modernization and is happening in every western/European country the world over. It has nothing to do with Canada specifically.

Having said that - I think the WEST (not just Canada) is too socially liberal- meaning they've turned the private into the public.

As for homosexual issues - it's all fluff. But it is interesting to see how far they've been able to hijack human rights issues from other minority groups with much more serious concerns.

[Neal.F.]

I can agree with all of your posts, some points more than others.

Trudeau literally sissified a once respectable country, and handed it over onn a silver platter to the courts.

My father was one of those veterans who fought in WWII. He VOLUNTEERED, because he wanted the values cited by Alliance fanatic to survive against Hitler's sinister regime which threatened the whole western world. (Did you know that German submarines were in the waters around Montreal?)

He looks back now and wonders why he bothered to fight for a country that puts homosexuality on a pedestal and sneers at the traditional family. That permits the slaughter of babies as a method of retroactive birth control....that taxes the productive and gives it to the lazy....that castrated a military that served with the utmost distinction in WWI (in which my grandfather fought, and lied about his age in order to go) and WWII. HOlland still sends boxes of tulips to thousands of cities and people in Canada to this day in recognition of Canadians' sacrifices. (Meanwhile france sneers) . While on the subject of the Eunuch military, which goes around in rusted out vehicles, and flies Sea King helicopters (which would have been replaced by now if not for that horse's ass puked-up excuse for a Prime minister) which put men in more danger than they'd be in actual combat, the canadian government sits there smugly knowing the US has to defend us, so why bother? All the while, Liberal MPs praise France to the sky and verbally defecate on the US on whome they depend for defense.

a country that cannot defend itself and relies on other countries for that, is not an independent sovereign nation.

Yes, this is what veterans are thinking about the country they once so proudly served, putting their lives on the line.

Now is canada really that socially liberal, or is it that the social engineers through Trudeau's socialist (dare i say communist) beliefs, and the infrastructure he set up, have taken over the media, and all government offices to the point where the impression is created that social conservatism is dead, neanderthal and archaic? Have their indoctrination policies been actually working?

In any case, once the Conservatives take power again, they MUST swing the axe at the civil service with such force as to level it to the ground, and effectively re-create it, albeit a much smaller version.

I fully believe the reason why the Tories got into so much trouble back in the '80's was that Brian Mulroney failed to deal with the blaoted civil service created by Trudeau. the civil service was chock full of his lefist appointees, and the ranks of workers dictated by hiring policy.

Therefore, when a tory would commit a faux-pas, he would be instantly exposed and pilloried by the Liberal infrastucture left in place by Trudeau, which would have winked at the same indiscretion committed by a Liberal.

So, in effect, what we need is a common sense revolution in this country. ALL civil servants will have to be accountable for their past decisions and behaviour, and those who have shown ANY partisan behaviour in the course of carrying out their duties should be immediately purged.

The size, and number of government departments needs to be reduced greatly as well.

One department that needs to be wiped out altogether is Heritage. NEver again must Sheila Copps or anyone like her, be given such sweeping power to mold culture by taking tax dollars to promote leftist "art", and push the agendae of leftist social groups.

The Trudeau Charter of Rights must be SCRAPPED. What was wrong with the Diefenbaker Bill of Rights that existed before?

And finally, we need to have leadership that will tell the courts where to go, and give power back to the people through their representatives in Parliament.

(Note that Jeb Bush stood up to the court in Florida, and ordered the feeding tube to be reconnected to Terri Sciavo. )

If the Liberals are thrown out in the next election by the conservatives (more and more I'm convinced that Mike Harris is the only one with the combination of electability backed up by the cojones to make the unpopular decisions that must be made) we have a chance to turn this country around. If not, it will be more difficult , if not impossible to undo the damage caused to this country by the legacy of Pierre Eliott Trudeau.

[Craig Read]

Neal some good points, however, Canadians are so left of centre that an axe wielding right of centre government will never get elected. From primary school to marxist university professors, through to the media and the CBC, Canadians are told that socialism is moral and necessary and that any form of Americanism or capitalism in which there is risk and no guarantees of any sort is to be not only eschewed but denigrated.

Canada is an EU nation on the wrong Continent.

Our elections are a joke - Diane Francis wrote a good article in the post today on the mediocrity of Cdn politicians, policies and viewpoints. She says that there is simply no choice in this country. All parties serve up the same basic socialist steak - just varying degrees of how well it is cooked.

It will take years after the current generation in power dies to reform this country. I have always wanted to write this book: "The Worst Generation; How the Hippies destroyed Society."

[sir_springer]

Yes.

[Neal.F.]

It will be too late by then the f-ing hippie comunards will have ruined the next generations.

There's a special spot in hell reserved for them. Pierre Trudeau is heating those coals right now.

It's common sense rev. Now, or it's too late.

[Craig Read]

Well for my money they can't die off soon enough. I am so tired of their sanctimonious drivel. Their vested interests, their lack of morality, dedication to universality, and sentimentalist fantasies. The only problem is that the US drug firms are making medicines that are too effective unnecessarily proloning the life of the grey haired grass smoking generation. Maybe we can ship the whole lot of them off to Florida for early retirement.

[SirRiff]

you cannot be "too this" or "too that" if you are successfull.

and considering we have the among the highest quality of life on earth, by definition we have succeeded.

thus we are just right.

the only way a policy is bad is if it detracts from our quality of life.

since politicians just spew preconcieved ideas unresponsive policies that move resources back and forth and back and forth and rarely make any net gain, i doubt most of the left v right debates really improve canda. just waste time and money.

SirRiff

[Goldie]

Craig is right,

How can conservative philosophy be embraced when university professors teach us that capitalism is doomed to fail. They don't make mention of the fact that this system is responsible for providing those countries and the people therein with a way out of the wild.

Look at the media and how eager they are to put David Orchard on T.V. to show how badly he was treated by deal maker Mackay. Mike Harris and his girlfriends legal battles are now news. The media even decided to shed light on a fight between Scott Brison and Elsie Wayne.

It really is up to this new party to shape Canada into its views. It doesn't have to be left for some other generation of new capitalists. A population like ours should easily be convinced that less government is better. That globalization needs to occur for the betterment of all. Free Trade and demographics spurred our economy not Paul Martin. That wooing China and Cuba for trade while kicking dirt in our biggest customers face is deplorable and does nothing for human rights worldwide not to mention our own prosperity.

Seems simple enough to transform this country.

[Pellaken]

Canada is not socially liberal enough.

[Craig Read]

You are pretty sad Pell if you believe that. I guess until we hold Roman gladitorial contests, open air orgies, bear baiting games, and can eat dog food at Korean restaurants you will not be happy.

Canada is so socially liberal it will choke the institutions and pre-requisites for success in the modern world. Hedonism, narcississm, self love and self esteem are the vaunted virtues in today's post modern Canada. Work, denial, morality, patience, optimism, understanding and knowledge are passe.

Many things need to be done to reform the country - it depends on your level of analysis. I am sceptical that Federally anything will change. Ergo - more powers for Cities and Provinces. This entails leadership at both levels that want orthodox liberalism and the retraction of government. I frankly do not see anyone in Canada proposing that ideal at any level.

[SirRiff]

How can conservative philosophy be embraced when university professors teach us that capitalism is doomed to fail

thats funny, i took an econmics course last year and it was just the the study of economics. no talk of gloom and doom.

i would suggest you enrol in an econmics course then come back and report what you found.

else its just unfounded propaganda

the same universities that do research to diseases, and teach engineers how to design buildings, and train journalists, and lawers and produce MBAs are the same ones who teach about capitalism.

so either all the science coming out of universities is left wing propaganda, or its all right and people are just depserate to criticism the advanced thinking that goes on in intellectual institutions and gave the world everything we have today.

You are pretty sad Pell if you believe that. I guess until we hold Roman gladitorial contests, open air orgies, bear baiting games, and can eat dog food at Korean restaurants you will not be happy.

craig i think its pretty sad you have to respond about eating dog when someone talks about the great coutry we have. all advancemnts we have in society are because someone didnt listen to teh close minded people who are scared of change. all these cell phones, and the internet, and modern medicine and skyscrapers are all because western civilization stopped playing voodoo with race, and gender, and these outdated "moral" values that really just serve to keep middle aged white men rich.

canada continues on the path of tolerance and progress and it will not change

SirRiff

[Goldie]

Sir Riff

Is it economically sound or sustainable to have a system like CPP or even the current health care system? Given current demographics won't these two programs break the country unless we have a substantial increase in immigration and taxes?

I personally don't want the government to support me at any stage of my life. I would rather pay premiums to a private insurance company for my health needs based on MY health needs. My retirement is not something I want subsidized and I would rather not have to support those people that are going to retire in the next 5-10 years.

No I have never taken an ecomonics class and suspect you would just like to make mention that you have. So please enlighten me on how rosey Canadas economic picture is and please explain how current social programs will not doom this prosperity.

I had a professor actually tell the class that a guaranteed income supplement of $35,000, that is the government pay the difference when natural incomes fall below that threshold, was actually considered by a Liberal Government of Canada in the 60's. He stated this was a cost effective way to dish out social programs. This would have been the mother of all social programs and the only one. Imagine this liberal wet dream where everyone earns a minimum $35,000 ,wonder what a loaf of bread would cost?

The Liberal agenda of the 60's 70's very nearly caused this nation to lose its shirt and we could again suffer for the past ten years. Cretien said himself the country was broke in '93, does anyone really think it was Mulroney that caused it?

On a path of tolerance and progress only if it is the current trendy whim with no real value in the social fabric of this society. Tolerate the dictator, the hate monger, and silence the third party in elections. Gays can mary but banks can't merge, this is progress! how?

[Craig Read]

Goldie good post. Sure Gays can marry on unfounded science. The family, church and morality are passe. Hedonism is in. Kyoto and Global warming on junk science will lead to higher taxes and regulations and more gov't workers and of course transfers to the poorer nations [oh my, tears well up in my eyes as i type]. Banks can't merge because that would affect oligopolistic political-bank relationships and fees [ie. donations]. Immigration can't be reformed since immigration lawyers, MPs and special interests not to mention the CBC, would howl in pain.

Health care and the OMA are technically bankrupt but no reform is necessary that would compromise gov't control over 15 % of the Economy. Taxes have gone up consistently each year and so has gov't spend.

Why reform when you as the elite benefit ? The situation is little different now than it was under the Romanov or any other European dynasty for that matter - throw a sop here to the masses, another there - a few compromises that don't really matter but give the mass the impression that you care [as tears and compassion flow from eyes and mouth].

Power and money. There is no incentive for the legal / academic / bureaucratic / media elite to change anything. Nothing but a shattering explosion of anger and reform, initiated at the city level will impact this country.

[Hugo]

Nothing but a shattering explosion of anger and reform, initiated at the city level will impact this country.

I doubt this will happen. I think one of the problems that Canadians have is that their liberty was handed to them on a silver platter, and they take it for granted. England overthrew her would-be despot in the English Civil War. France fought the French Revolution to be rid of their autocratic king. America fought the War of Independence to throw of the shackles of the British. The Russians overthrew the Tsar in 1917, and then had to overthrow the Communists that replaced them in 1991. However, in Canada liberty was bought cheap, and like anything cheap it's valued little.

The fact is that if these trends continue, it's not inconceivable that Canadians, like other democratic nations, will actually have to buy their liberty in the standard coin of blood, suffering, death and misery. It seems remote now, but if Canadians continue to applaud while their freedoms and values are trampled upon there will come a point where they realise that they have none left.

[daniel]

Don't know what that breaking point will be but there is one.

The fact that we have regular elections is a good relief valve. The unfortunate thing is the people being replaced end-up exactly the same. (So don't hold your breath that the united right will save Canada, one of the raison d'etre of the Reform Party was promptly rejected by Preson Manning when he became Opposition Leader.)

[Alliance Fanatic]

Actually Moderate ask any police officer and they'll say violence has gone up. In the city of Edmonton, a police officer gets attacked once a week. Violence against police is tolerated now, one person who tried killing a police officer got 1000$ bail, and then attacked another police officer. In Calgary the media is making a big story about the police officer who killed a man who tried killing him. The media has already started to grow sympathy for the man who tried killing a police officer. It's quite unbelievable actaully, my brother whom is a firefighter, [i want to become an RCMP officer] said that police officers deserve five times more respect than they actually get. But the media, will do anything it can to demonize police officers.

[Moderate Centrist]

"...ask any police officer and they'll say violence has gone up." 

Alliance Fanatic

And what exactly is your point. The police have a distorted view of crime. This doesn't mean that crime is actually on the increase - and it isn't.

Can you site any statistics and their source which indicate crime is on the increase?

"In the city of Edmonton, a police officer gets attacked once a week."

Alliance Fanatic

What's your source on this? Please define attack:

Do you mean - shot at

punched

verbally attacked

"Violence against police is tolerated now"

Alliance Fanatic

How so? Please elaborate on this?

"...one person who tried killing a police officer got 1000$ bail, and then attacked another police officer."

Alliance Fanatic

Please give us a source on this claim with the date and department - are you referring to City Police or the RCMP.

"...police officers deserve five times more respect than they actually get. "

Alliance Fanatic

Fine. I know people who would say police deserve five times less respect than they actually get.

The bottom line is this:

-there is currently no crime wave taking place in Canada.

-Violent crime affects a minority of Canadians

- The police are only one small factor in the fight against crime and can only act (rightly) after the fact.

-Crime as an issue is used primarily to distract the public from more important issues

- The media is out to make money - Period. They'll put any spin on a story if it will sell newspapers.

Actually one of the factors that "may" be affecting the lower crime rate is,

"The declining proportion of young people—those most prone to criminal activity—may be one factor. "

Source:

http://142.206.72.67/04/04b/04b_002_e.htm

I think the police should be given the respect they are due and no more.

When organized police forces first emerged many people were oppossed becaus the police have traditionally beens pawns of the government to screw people over.

There are plenty of examples from Canada and around the world which show they can't be trusted.

For every story you have on a good cop there is one on a bad.

Canada, the US and England actually are lucky in that we can call the police into account. Most countries don't have that right.

Let's leave things as they are regarding the cops.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Moderate, you obviously dont listen, or read into the news. In Edmonton a police officer was nearly run down, then they guy that did it got off on a 1000$ bail, then tried running down another police officer. In the city of Edmonton the murder rate is up. An RCMP car was hijacked by a criminal who then ran over two RCMP officers, who luckily only recieved minor injuries. A police officer was nearly killed in Calgary, how could you not hear about that. When a police officer is attacked, people constantly blame the officer for protecting himself, people in Calgary are complaining about that police officer who had to shoot the guy who tried to kill him. Mod, you obviously dont seem to have any grasp of what police officer's do, try being a police officer for a day, the media will jump on any story in order to demonize a police officer.

Police officer's dont get any respect from the youth of this country, most kids seem to think that police officers are pigs, who are just trying to cause trouble. Most of the youth also seem to buy into what some of their role models say about police officers, Tupac Shakur depicted police officers as "EVIL PIGS WHO ARE TRYING TO KEEP BLACK KIDS IN THE GUTTER", 50 cent in his DVD mocks police officers in the LAPD, and NYPD also, he also grabs for a police officers pistol, and then blatantly calls the police officer a pig. Boy kids have great role models these days.

You are probably asking why police officers deserve respect, their putting their lives on the line, every day making sure this society as safe, and that your children are protected from predators so show some respect.

[Aidan Pryde]

Police officer's dont get any respect from the youth of this country

Is it any wonder? I've lost count of how many times I seen a story in the paper or on the news about the VPD beating unarmed suspects or innocent people they've arrested. With such things going on, I'm not surprised that people and especially the youth no longer trust or respect the police.

[Moderate Centrist]

Hello Alliance,

I'm afraid it's you who isn't listening. I've twice asked for a source for your information and you haven't provided one. Am I supposed to take your word for it?

If what you say is true let's have the date of the incident.

And again so what? Crime in Canada is not on the upswing. I'll have to do some checking on your claims for Edmonton's crime rate unless you'd care to back it up with some facts.

And speaking of facts, it's a well known fact that crime is reported out of proportion to its' occurance.

People "THINKING" the crime rate is up and the crime rate "ACTUALLY" going up are two completely different things.

While the stories you cited may be unfortuate they do not sway my feelings in this matter.

I share the view that the police are a nessessary evil. Yes we need a police force and I pay them my respects ... and no more.

I have no interest in becoming a police officer. To those who do - good for them - it's a tough and rewarding career.

However, the police have a history of corruption, abuse of power and harrassing the public.

If they want to stop criminals fine but they don't need any more powers to do it.

I have a pretty good idea of what police officers do - administrative work, paper work and settling domestic disputes and misdemeaners for the most part.

As for protection from predators. What predators?

Here is another myth I think you may believe in:

Rapists, child molesters, kidnapers are strangers - WRONG

Most of these people are known intimately to their victims. The idea of the predatory criminal is laughable and extremely rare.

To give you a small taste of this consider the following:

In 2002 35 Children were abducted by strangers while 429 were abducted by parents. The source for this statistics comes from the Garden of Missing Children Society and the site is:

http://www.gomcs.org/english/GOMC-miss-stats.htm

I happen to believe that society has gone too far in it's socially liberal attitudes but I hardly think people respect the police less now than they ever did.

Unless I'm mistaken the period with the most anti-establishment thinking and violent social upheaval was the late 1960s and early 1970s.

As for Tupac Shakur and 50 Cent - I don't care what they think. They're pop culture icons and therefore their opinions don't count to me. They can say whatever they want for all I care. If people are stupid enough to be influenced than so be it.

As for my reading of the news. I have temporarily been out of touch with local Alberta news so I'm not up to speed.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I'm not surprised by Aidan Prydes views, he probably believes sept 11 was a right wing conspiracy, many Aidans beliefs are

-Christians are evil people, thus Martin Luter King jr was evil

-100,000 Canadian soldiers who died were all atheists, none were christian.

- Aidan I'd like to see you be a police officer for a day, people always piss on you when your a police officer, and if their were no police officers then what would happen, somebody could murder you, rape your family, etc. So Aidan next time a person in your family gets raped dont call the police since you hate them so much you commie.

[Morgan]

Aidan Prydes,

According to an article reported today in the National Post, organized crime is flourishing and on an upswing in Canada and a crime researcher blames lax laws and government indifference.

http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.htm...91-BCA13A266885

Organized crime 'widespread':Exclusive: RCMP report reveals criminal gains from streets to markets

by A. Humphreys and S. Bell Nat'l Post Oct.28, 2003

Organized criminal gangs are corrupting, extorting and swindling their way into everyday life in Canada -- jeopardizing stock markets, airport security and financial institutions -- says a confidential RCMP report obtained by the National Post.

The in-depth police intelligence report presents organized crime as a growth industry often operating with impunity.

The Russian mafia is "more widespread than had previously been thought;" new criminal Eastern European groups are taking root here; Sicilian mafiosi have "begun to gain ground;" and Asian-based gangs are resorting to violence to expand their operations, the report concludes.

The frank assessment of organized crime in Canada was prepared by the RCMP's Criminal Intelligence Directorate to guide and prioritize large investigations launched by the Mounties.

Circulated internally at the end of April, 2003, a heavily edited version of the report was released under the Access to Information Act.

Organized crime groups are engaged in a wide diversity of crime, from violent acts of murder, assault and robbery to sophisticated financial crimes, including stock market manipulation, money laundering and counterfeiting, the report says. "[Organized] crime figures continue to use Canadian financial markets to launder money and manipulate stock. Activity of this type has the potential to undermine markets, financial sectors and, ultimately, the entire economy."

The groups are heavily involved in the sex trade, migrant smuggling, credit-card fraud, kidnapping, smuggling of illegal weapons, extortion, forging of passports and other official documents, diverting stolen goods into the marketplace, intimidation, loan sharking and other crimes.

The financial mainstay of each of the groups, however, is drugs.

A prominent organized crime researcher said the massive scale, diversity and seeming impunity of the gangsters' activities in Canada reflect years of neglect by politicians and government officials.

"The government and society is afraid of them but they are not afraid of our government," Antonio Nicaso, a widely consulted organized crime specialist and the author of 10 books on the subject, said of the gangsters. "I don't think we will make any progress unless we pay attention to the punishment given under our judicial system. There are many dedicated police officers trying to investigate these sophisticated criminals but I don't see the same commitment from the political side."

He said criminal gangs budget for a short period of imprisonment in a relaxed Canadian jail when they are making plans for their drug networks. They expect access to criminal associates during incarceration and rapid transfer to a halfway house and full parole.

He said an end to plea bargaining, light sentencing and a parole board that considers drug trafficking a non-violent offence, would go a long way to reducing the incentive of global crime groups to focus on Canada.

[Moderate Centrist]

"...an end to plea bargaining, light sentencing and a parole board that considers drug trafficking a non-violent offence, would go a long way to reducing the incentive of global crime groups to focus on Canada."

Yeah right. There's money in drugs. As long as there is money in people will trafic it.

I actually feel organized crime is one area the police should crack down on but it's a very difficult thing to tackle because of such wide public support for the services they provide and because the public takes such a light view of the real money making activities these groups engage in.

The penal system is only one tool to combat crime and since most of the people at the top of the ladder never see jail time it doesn't make much of a dent.

Alliance,

I'm still waiting for those sources.

People don't always piss on the police. I've always given them their due. I think people would rather have as little to do with them as possible though.