Dion stumbles over sponsorship file

[Leafless]

"The sponsorship scandal came back to haunt Liberals today after newly minted Leader Stephane Dion suggested at least one of the organizers disgraced by the affair should be welcomed back into the party."

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/174517

"Dion was forced to clarify after telling a Quebec newspaper that he has no objections to Marc-Yvan Cote, a former key party organizer in eastern Quebec, being allowed to resume his Liberal membership.

He told Le Soleil that Cote's punishment was exaggerated, that he'd recognized his error and shouldn't be penalized for life. He stressed, however, that no decision had been made to readmit Cote and that it was up to the party president to decide."

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What do you expect with a Liberal leader who is also a citizen of France.

Liberal fortunes are certain to bloom.

[Ricki Bobbi]

"Dion was forced to clarify after telling a Quebec newspaper that he has no objections to Marc-Yvan Cote, a former key party organizer in eastern Quebec, being allowed to resume his Liberal membership.

He told Le Soleil that Cote's punishment was exaggerated, that he'd recognized his error and shouldn't be penalized for life. He stressed, however, that no decision had been made to readmit Cote and that it was up to the party president to decide."

Dion is showing political instincts that are sure to hurt his party's chances in the next election.

A shrewder poltiician would have kept this guy on the sdeline until the next election at least.

I guess Dion ain't that shrewd.

[tml12]

"Dion was forced to clarify after telling a Quebec newspaper that he has no objections to Marc-Yvan Cote, a former key party organizer in eastern Quebec, being allowed to resume his Liberal membership.

He told Le Soleil that Cote's punishment was exaggerated, that he'd recognized his error and shouldn't be penalized for life. He stressed, however, that no decision had been made to readmit Cote and that it was up to the party president to decide."

Dion is showing political instincts that are sure to hurt his party's chances in the next election.

A shrewder poltiician would have kept this guy on the sdeline until the next election at least.

I guess Dion ain't that shrewd.

Once again, the Liberals are proving they can't stay away from corruption. Yet, Canadians still vote Liberal.

I challenge Liberal voters here to justify why they believe voting Liberal is a good thing. Seriously, tell me why. These guys are just ridiculous.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Once again, the Liberals are proving they can't stay away from corruption. Yet, Canadians still vote Liberal.

I challenge Liberal voters here to justify why they believe voting Liberal is a good thing. Seriously, tell me why. These guys are just ridiculous.

No need to go that far.

Can the Liberal supporters here stand behind their leader's views on Cote's re-instatement to the party?

If not, do you really think you picked the right man???

[tml12]

Once again, the Liberals are proving they can't stay away from corruption. Yet, Canadians still vote Liberal.

I challenge Liberal voters here to justify why they believe voting Liberal is a good thing. Seriously, tell me why. These guys are just ridiculous.

No need to go that far.

Can the Liberal supporters here stand behind their leader's views on Cote's re-instatement to the party?

If not, do you really think you picked the right man???

I noticed your new signature...I remember that (you should tell him he could work for a future Liberal government...I am sure $300,000 of our tax dollars is fair pay for that work )

[Ricki Bobbi]

I noticed your new signature...I remember that (you should tell him he could work for a future Liberal government...I am sure $300,000 of our tax dollars is fair pay for that work )

Something tells me he is too *unmotivated* to put in the time required volunteering for the Liberal Party of Canada to earn his place in the lineup for feeding at the taxapyer-funded trough prior to the next Liberal Federal Electiion victory. (Hopefully many, many, many years in the future.)

[geoffrey]

This is a major failure of Dion and it shows that the Liberals are the same ol' Liberals.

Allowing political fraud artists into your party is definitely nearly the level of 3rd world banana republics.

I think Dion should resign his leadership over this fiasco, it's ugly and it's damning for the party. The Liberal cannot win the next election by forgiving criminals that stole our money.

I wonder how close Dion is with these people?

I also wonder why Cote is not in prision right now? I don't think there is any clearer case of fraud. In the private sector, the book would have been thrown at him. In the political arena, you don't even serve a day.

This aspect of the Star story is telling of Dion's arrogance and absolute disregard for Canadian's money:

He told Le Soleil that Cote's punishment was exaggerated, that he'd recognized his error and shouldn't be penalized for life. He stressed, however, that no decision had been made to readmit Cote and that it was up to the party president to decide.

Bah humbug. I wish I could aid in defrauding a company of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars of taxpayers money and just say "oopss!! IM SORRY! it won't happen again!! I PROMISE!!"

Yikes. Who the hell is in charge of Dion's PR? This is the ugliest thing a Liberal did since they encourage the fraud in the first place.

[Ricki Bobbi]

This is a major failure of Dion and it shows that the Liberals are the same ol' Liberals.

Allowing political fraud artists into your party is definitely nearly the level of 3rd world banana republics.

I think Dion should resign his leadership over this fiasco, it's ugly and it's damning for the party. The Liberal cannot win the next election by forgiving criminals that stole our money.

This has very positive shades of Paul Martin. (Positive for the Conservatives.)

Something tells me when we see the post-mortem of the next Conservative election victory this well be the first of many missteps by Dion that lead to the Liberal's defeat...

[tml12]

This is a major failure of Dion and it shows that the Liberals are the same ol' Liberals.

Allowing political fraud artists into your party is definitely nearly the level of 3rd world banana republics.

I think Dion should resign his leadership over this fiasco, it's ugly and it's damning for the party. The Liberal cannot win the next election by forgiving criminals that stole our money.

I wonder how close Dion is with these people?

I also wonder why Cote is not in prision right now? I don't think there is any clearer case of fraud. In the private sector, the book would have been thrown at him. In the political arena, you don't even serve a day.

This aspect of the Star story is telling of Dion's arrogance and absolute disregard for Canadian's money:

He told Le Soleil that Cote's punishment was exaggerated, that he'd recognized his error and shouldn't be penalized for life. He stressed, however, that no decision had been made to readmit Cote and that it was up to the party president to decide.

Bah humbug. I wish I could aid in defrauding a company of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars of taxpayers money and just say "oopss!! IM SORRY! it won't happen again!! I PROMISE!!"

Yikes. Who the hell is in charge of Dion's PR? This is the ugliest thing a Liberal did since they encourage the fraud in the first place.

Geoffrey, once a Liberal always a Liberal. I believe Dion and his PR team truly believe this stuff. They believe Cote's punishment was too severe.

The Liberals govern Canada through their leftist myths. They believe they have a divine right to govern Canada. They can't understand why anyone would vote them out.

Canada cannot again allow the Liberals to govern for a long time. A strong and sovereign Canada requires at least one, preferably two or more, Harper majority governments.

[geoffrey]

Geoffrey, once a Liberal always a Liberal. I believe Dion and his PR team truly believe this stuff. They believe Cote's punishment was too severe.

The Liberals govern Canada through their leftist myths. They believe they have a divine right to govern Canada. They can't understand why anyone would vote them out.

Canada cannot again allow the Liberals to govern for a long time. A strong and sovereign Canada requires at least one, preferably two or more, Harper majority governments.

It's telling that you say that about the Liberal tml. I agree in the case of Dion and most in the power positions, but there is alot of bright talent in the Liberal party that has alot to offer to Canada. Mr. Kennedy is a fantastic example, same with even some of Dion's shadow cabinet.

The party is divided between tired idelogues like Dion (no one frustrates me more) and progressive people that actually want to better Canada, like Kennedy.

But sadly, the old, corrupt, tired side is the dominate hand in the game right now.

[tml12]

Geoffrey, once a Liberal always a Liberal. I believe Dion and his PR team truly believe this stuff. They believe Cote's punishment was too severe.

The Liberals govern Canada through their leftist myths. They believe they have a divine right to govern Canada. They can't understand why anyone would vote them out.

Canada cannot again allow the Liberals to govern for a long time. A strong and sovereign Canada requires at least one, preferably two or more, Harper majority governments.

It's telling that you say that about the Liberal tml. I agree in the case of Dion and most in the power positions, but there is alot of bright talent in the Liberal party that has alot to offer to Canada. Mr. Kennedy is a fantastic example, same with even some of Dion's shadow cabinet.

The party is divided between tired idelogues like Dion (no one frustrates me more) and progressive people that actually want to better Canada, like Kennedy.

But sadly, the old, corrupt, tired side is the dominate hand in the game right now.

I didn't say there wasn't talent in the Liberal Party. What I did say is that I do not trust them to govern this country.

I would vote Liberal if I thought that the party was going to govern honourably. There may be a time in the future when they will...that time is not now.

[geoffrey]

I didn't say there wasn't talent in the Liberal Party. What I did say is that I do not trust them to govern this country.

I would vote Liberal if I thought that the party was going to govern honourably. There may be a time in the future when they will...that time is not now.

Same here, I'm dying to be able to vote Liberal with a clear conscience. Won't happen with Dion in charge.

[tml12]

I didn't say there wasn't talent in the Liberal Party. What I did say is that I do not trust them to govern this country.

I would vote Liberal if I thought that the party was going to govern honourably. There may be a time in the future when they will...that time is not now.

Same here, I'm dying to be able to vote Liberal with a clear conscience. Won't happen with Dion in charge.

The Liberal party has one of the best recruitment offices in this country. That being said, the arrogance present in the party makes George Bush in 2003 seem meek and humble.

The party today is the party that campaigns from the left (with its tired old myths of kindler, gentler nation, etc.) and governs from the right.

Harper puts his money where his mouth is...I like him a lot and I hope he gets in again, preferably in a strong majority.

[geoffrey]

The party today is the party that campaigns from the left (with its tired old myths of kindler, gentler nation, etc.) and governs from the right.

Harper puts his money where his mouth is...I like him a lot and I hope he gets in again, preferably in a strong majority.

I agree with the first aspect. The Liberals in reality are a pro-business economy focused party. Paul Martin was one of the best Finance ministers the country could ever dream of having.

The second I'm shakey on. Harper blew it on income trusts IMO, that's a major hypocracy from a guy that called them "the victory of the citizen over the taxman" when in opposition. There has yet to be any evidence from the Minister of Finance that they had a negative effect on the Canadian economy, and in another thread, I posted signficant sourced expert evidence that they were one of a very few things keep us above the respectable line in terms of economies.

An economist wouldn't have made that call... he would have looked at the evidence first. He made that call for politican gain in Quebec, at the expense of everyone in Canada.

Same with Quebec as a nation.

Same with the plan to give Quebec $1.5b of Alberta and Saskatchewan money in 'revisiting equalisation' and making it 'more fair.'

Harper is better than the other alternatives right now, but he's still not performing adequately in my opinion. I'd give him a C right now as a grade. My life has not been impacted too negatively since he's been in charge, but it also has not at all be affected positively.

[Ricki Bobbi]

An economist wouldn't have made that call... he would have looked at the evidence first. He made that call for politican gain in Quebec, at the expense of everyone in Canada.

He made the decision on Income Trusts for political gain in Quebec.

Never heard that one before. Do explain...

[tml12]

The party today is the party that campaigns from the left (with its tired old myths of kindler, gentler nation, etc.) and governs from the right.

Harper puts his money where his mouth is...I like him a lot and I hope he gets in again, preferably in a strong majority.

I agree with the first aspect. The Liberals in reality are a pro-business economy focused party. Paul Martin was one of the best Finance ministers the country could ever dream of having.

The second I'm shakey on. Harper blew it on income trusts IMO, that's a major hypocracy from a guy that called them "the victory of the citizen over the taxman" when in opposition. There has yet to be any evidence from the Minister of Finance that they had a negative effect on the Canadian economy, and in another thread, I posted signficant sourced expert evidence that they were one of a very few things keep us above the respectable line in terms of economies.

An economist wouldn't have made that call... he would have looked at the evidence first. He made that call for politican gain in Quebec, at the expense of everyone in Canada.

Same with Quebec as a nation.

Same with the plan to give Quebec $1.5b of Alberta and Saskatchewan money in 'revisiting equalisation' and making it 'more fair.'

Harper is better than the other alternatives right now, but he's still not performing adequately in my opinion. I'd give him a C right now as a grade. My life has not been impacted too negatively since he's been in charge, but it also has not at all be affected positively.

Dear Geoffrey,

I completely agree with everything you said in that post...

When I said "money where his mouth is," I meant in comparison with other politicians at this time. The income tax thing was BS, Quebec as a nation was BS...all true, completely agreed.

[geoffrey]

In that case tml, we're at a sad sad state in Canadian politics when we have no party that is actually representing the values of average (non-Quebecois) Canadians.

[tml12]

In that case tml, we're at a sad sad state in Canadian politics when we have no party that is actually representing the values of average (non-Quebecois) Canadians.

All you have to do is read Leafless's posts if you want to know the general state of Canada-Quebec relations.

I am an anglophone Quebecer so I believe in Canada before Quebec and thus am in no position to pretend to understand where francophones are coming from.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I think Gilles Duceppe said it best after Dion tried to step away from his comments on Coté. My brutal translation...

If he believes so much on clarity why not be clear on this issue.

This is very good news for the Bloc, CPC and NDP.

Allows the Bloc to stir Québecois anger about Sponsorship again. Gives Jacko the motivation to go hard after the Liberals, and a realistic chance of replacing them as the alternative to the Conservatives, for the Conservatives it takes the focus off them and puts it on the Liberals.

Dion's in a real tight spot here. He can't distance himself too much from the likes of Coté because there are some hardcore Liberal activists who truly believe Coté and his fellow criminals did nothing wrong. So if he does the correct and honourable thing, i.e. confirming these guys are out of the party for life, the party stalwarts could turn on him.

If he does allow them back into the party. Woooo boy he becomes target number one of all the other parties.

What a great, great night.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I think Gilles Duceppe said it best after Dion tried to step away from his comments on Coté. My brutal translation...

If he believes so much on clarity why not be clear on this issue.

This is very good news for the Bloc, CPC and NDP.

Allows the Bloc to stir Québecois anger about Sponsorship again. Gives Jacko the motivation to go hard after the Liberals, and a realistic chance of replacing them as the alternative to the Conservatives. For the Conservatives it takes the focus off them and puts it on the Liberals.

Dion's in a real tight spot here. He can't distance himself too much from the likes of Coté because there are some hardcore Liberal activists who truly believe Coté and his fellow criminals did nothing wrong. So if he does the correct and honourable thing, i.e. confirming these guys are out of the party for life, the party stalwarts could turn on him.

If he does allow them back into the party. Woooo boy he becomes target number one of all the other parties.

What a great, great night.

[geoffrey]

Just saying he wants them back in is pretty damning...

I don't really understand why exactly giving them a slip of paper is really worth losing an election over. Like I said, I figure Dion is much much closer with Mr. Cote and the rest of them than he or any Liberal is willing to admit.

[tml12]

Just saying he wants them back in is pretty damning...

I don't really understand why exactly giving them a slip of paper is really worth losing an election over. Like I said, I figure Dion is much much closer with Mr. Cote and the rest of them than he or any Liberal is willing to admit.

The Liberals can't understand why Cote should not be allowed into the party because they themselves are immune to corruption...they can't understand why "the people" would vote against their "natural governing body."

The Liberals are like a bad case of the cold. Hopefully, we get rid of them in the next election for a good few years.

[August1991]

Wait a second here. Where does it say that a person with a criminal record cannot become a member of a political party? Does a person with a criminal record lose the right to vote?

Did Marc-Yvan Cote go to jail? Was ever convicted of anything?

He's not trying to become a Liberal candidate. Heck, from what I gather, he's not even trying to join the Liberal Party.

The Liberals under Martin banished him for life but it seems perfectly reasonable to reconsider that decision. Dion was merely considering that possibility.

Ultimately, it is up to the "court of public opinion" to judge Dion on this but frankly, I don't think this is going to re-awaken the Adscam Monster.

[jdobbin]

Wait a second here. Where does it say that a person with a criminal record cannot become a member of a political party? Does a person with a criminal record lose the right to vote?

Did Marc-Yvan Cote go to jail? Was ever convicted of anything?

He's not trying to become a Liberal candidate. Heck, from what I gather, he's not even trying to join the Liberal Party.

The Liberals under Martin banished him for life but it seems perfectly reasonable to reconsider that decision. Dion was merely considering that possibility.

Ultimately, it is up to the "court of public opinion" to judge Dion on this but frankly, I don't think this is going to re-awaken the Adscam Monster.

Quite honestly, after this kerfuffle, I doubt the caucus will ever consider rescinding the Martin directive.

[geoffrey]

Martin made the right choice in consideration of the public. Allowing them back in looks hideous and will cost votes, regardless of whether or not it's morally correct.