Promise of Childcare Spaces

[Keepitsimple]

Contrary to what conservatives are trying to spin, the Liberal plan for early child learning and care was an excellent plan that would have benefited so many families. And Steve can erase all the government information off it's web site that it wants but the internet has footprints.

The agreement that Ken Dryden, on behalf of the Federal Government, signed with the Alberta government is here. As you all can read, it was/is a very good program. Much better than the $100 for children under age 6, which is not childcare but the old family allowance for extra beer and popcorn money.

The failure of Steve's beer and popcorn money is glaringly apparent. And just as happened in Ontario under Mike Harris's grand child care scheme where private business would build all these spaces (not) so too Steve's flop is just that .... a flop.

Heck, I'm from Montreal and cheered for Les Canadiens when Dryden was a goalie - so how could I not like him? His intentions were good and the Agreement that you referred to was a noble and grand attempt...but the fact of the matter is that the Liberals simply gave the money to Alberta - they can spend in on public or private Child Care, in any form that they like. Here's an excerpt from the Agreement (my highlights) that you provided that makes it clear that indeed - they were just handing over the money - everything else is just window-dressing:

AREAS FOR INVESTMENT

To advance the vision set out in this agreement, Alberta agrees to invest federal funds transferred to Alberta under this initiative in provincially regulated and approved early learning and child care programs and services, including public and private providers, for children under six.

In the context of this agreement, regulated programs are defined as programs and services that meet quality standards that are established and monitored by Alberta.

Early learning and child care programs and services funded under this agreement will primarily provide direct care for children in settings such as child care centers, family child care homes, preschools and nursery schools.

Types of investments could include: capital and operating funding, fee subsidies, wage enhancements, training, professional development and support, quality assurance, and parent information and referral. Programs and services that are part of the formal school system will not be included in this initiative.

[jdobbin]

No hat on. Liberals are commies.

Citation from some source that says you don't wear a tin foil hat?

[Canuck E Stan]

This isn't an issue about to go away. The Feds said they were going to do something about it and so far they have not rolled out a national program.

Hate to bring this up again,but.....how many years, and how many times did the Liberals say they would bring in national daycare....and?

If you can wait moe than a decade for Liberal National Daycare that never happened, and not saying boo about it, why after 1 year of the Conservatives is there a big rush? Expecting quints soon?

You had patience for the Liberals,have some now for the Conservatives.

There's a big mess to clean up in Ottawa.

[Melanie_]

Heck, I'm from Montreal and cheered for Les Canadiens when Dryden was a goalie - so how could I not like him? His intentions were good and the Agreement that you referred to was a noble and grand attempt...but the fact of the matter is that the Liberals simply gave the money to Alberta - they can spend in on public or private Child Care, in any form that they like. Here's an excerpt from the Agreement (my highlights) that you provided that makes it clear that indeed - they were just handing over the money - everything else is just window-dressing:

AREAS FOR INVESTMENT

To advance the vision set out in this agreement, Alberta agrees to invest federal funds transferred to Alberta under this initiative in provincially regulated and approved early learning and child care programs and services, including public and private providers, for children under six.

In the context of this agreement, regulated programs are defined as programs and services that meet quality standards that are established and monitored by Alberta.

Early learning and child care programs and services funded under this agreement will primarily provide direct care for children in settings such as child care centers, family child care homes, preschools and nursery schools.

Types of investments could include: capital and operating funding, fee subsidies, wage enhancements, training, professional development and support, quality assurance, and parent information and referral. Programs and services that are part of the formal school system will not be included in this initiative.

Alberta is recognized throughout Canada as having the least investment and commitment to a child care program. They spent a great deal of their share of the federal money on an accreditation program that encouraged centres and providers to meet basic standards that are far less than those regulated in other provinces. I wonder what the loss of those federal dollars in April of this year will mean to the standards that have just been met by those who chose the accreditation route. Maybe King Ralph's successor will have a different child care agenda - what do Albertans think?

[Melanie_]

Hate to bring this up again,but.....how many years, and how many times did the Liberals say they would bring in national daycare....and?

If you can wait moe than a decade for Liberal National Daycare that never happened, and not saying boo about it, why after 1 year of the Conservatives is there a big rush? Expecting quints soon?

You had patience for the Liberals,have some now for the Conservatives.

There's a big mess to clean up in Ottawa.

Absolutely true, Canuck. It took the Libs a long time - too long - to address the issue. But the Conservatives have taken a potentially good program and tossed it out, replacing it with something they themselves don't really understand. There is a big mess to clean up in Ottawa, so they could have just left this program alone and had one less mess to think about.

[jefferiah]

No hat on. Liberals are commies.

Citation from some source that says you don't wear a tin foil hat?

Lol...what a cheap tactic JDobbin. Citation from some source that says I do?

[gc1765]

Lol...what a cheap tactic JDobbin. Citation from some source that says I do?

Citation

hehe Just kidding...

[jefferiah]

I think he meant reliable source.

[jdobbin]

Hate to bring this up again,but.....how many years, and how many times did the Liberals say they would bring in national daycare....and?

If you can wait moe than a decade for Liberal National Daycare that never happened, and not saying boo about it, why after 1 year of the Conservatives is there a big rush? Expecting quints soon?

You had patience for the Liberals,have some now for the Conservatives.

There's a big mess to clean up in Ottawa.

I criticized the lack of a Liberal program for years. I thought it stank and that Chretien was out to lunch on it even when he said he needed to cut the deficit first.

The program that the Liberals under Martin put out was indeed going to create spaces.

The Tory program doesn't create spaces.

[Melanie_]

Looks like Stephen Harper has realized that the best way to create spaces is to build on the already existing infrastructure the provinces have in place, rather than setting up his own system. Some might call this a flip flop, but I for one find it encouraging to know that Harper is willing to change when he realizes that his ideas aren't going to work.

Canada.com

[Renegade]

The program that the Liberals under Martin put out was indeed going to create spaces.

The Tory program doesn't create spaces.

I'd be interested to know how many of you actually had trouble getting a daycare space. I've lived in a number of areas and never had trouble providing I was willing to pay the freight.

[jdobbin]

I'd be interested to know how many of you actually had trouble getting a daycare space. I've lived in a number of areas and never had trouble providing I was willing to pay the freight.

Anecdotal information aside, even the Conservatives last election admitted that there was not enough daycare space to meet demand.

[Renegade]

Anecdotal information aside, even the Conservatives last election admitted that there was not enough daycare space to meet demand.

The Conservatives like the Liberals are a political party and will "admit" to problems which may or may not exist.

I have seen no evidence of such a problem. I'm asking if anyone else has, or are we just going on the assumption that there is a problem because the Liberals or Conservatives "admit" to it?

[jdobbin]

The Conservatives like the Liberals are a political party and will "admit" to problems which may or may not exist.

I have seen no evidence of such a problem. I'm asking if anyone else has, or are we just going on the assumption that there is a problem because the Liberals or Conservatives "admit" to it?

If we are going to go anecdotally, I know several who have had problems finding daycare spaces. Some are still looking even though they are months away from having their children go into care.

[Renegade]

If we are going to go anecdotally, I know several who have had problems finding daycare spaces. Some are still looking even though they are months away from having their children go into care.

In which city? Is cost of the space an issue?

[Melanie_]

I was the director of an 80 space child care centre for a couple of years. I had weeping mothers on the phone regularly begging me for a spot. Some examples: Their private sitter was raising their fees by $8/day starting in two weeks. They were starting to feel really uneasy about the care their child was getting; even though there was no specific issue, they were anxious to move their child from that caregiver. They had just moved to the province and were ready to start their new jobs, and couldn't find any place for their child. No private sitter was willing to accomodate their child with autism. Grandma was going into the hospital and wouldn't be able to provide care anymore, even when she was back home again. Finding a spot was definitely an issue in each of these cases.

I knew parents who were spending their lunch hour every day driving from work to the sitter to kindergarten then back to work, then back to school at 3:30 to pick their child up again and take her back to the sitter, then go back to work for another hour.

I'll never forget one dad, a recent immigrant, who didn't understand why I could only take a certain number of children, telling me how quiet his son was, how small he was, he wouldn't be any trouble, could we just find a small spot in the back for him to sit.

I don't think I've made much of a secret of my support for a public, licensed and regulated system. The infrastructure is already there, especially here in Manitoba. What we need are more spaces - not just in Winnipeg, but in Neepawa, Steinbach, Dauphin, Gillam, Carman, Flin Flon...... private businesses are unlikey to start worksite centres in smaller areas; this was a major flaw in Harper's plan. Expanding the current system the province has in place would open spaces based on the needs of the community, rather than the needs of a private business to put their money where they are most likely to make a profit. Thankfully Harper has recognized this and is going back to the original Liberal plan of giving the money to the provinces to administer.

[Renegade]

I was the director of an 80 space child care centre for a couple of years. I had weeping mothers on the phone regularly begging me for a spot. Some examples: Their private sitter was raising their fees by $8/day starting in two weeks. They were starting to feel really uneasy about the care their child was getting; even though there was no specific issue, they were anxious to move their child from that caregiver. They had just moved to the province and were ready to start their new jobs, and couldn't find any place for their child. No private sitter was willing to accomodate their child with autism. Grandma was going into the hospital and wouldn't be able to provide care anymore, even when she was back home again. Finding a spot was definitely an issue in each of these cases.

I knew parents who were spending their lunch hour every day driving from work to the sitter to kindergarten then back to work, then back to school at 3:30 to pick their child up again and take her back to the sitter, then go back to work for another hour.

I'll never forget one dad, a recent immigrant, who didn't understand why I could only take a certain number of children, telling me how quiet his son was, how small he was, he wouldn't be any trouble, could we just find a small spot in the back for him to sit.

I don't think I've made much of a secret of my support for a public, licensed and regulated system. The infrastructure is already there, especially here in Manitoba. What we need are more spaces - not just in Winnipeg, but in Neepawa, Steinbach, Dauphin, Gillam, Carman, Flin Flon...... private businesses are unlikey to start worksite centres in smaller areas; this was a major flaw in Harper's plan. Expanding the current system the province has in place would open spaces based on the needs of the community, rather than the needs of a private business to put their money where they are most likely to make a profit. Thankfully Harper has recognized this and is going back to the original Liberal plan of giving the money to the provinces to administer.

Thanks that helps.

Personally I don't have any problem with the government creating the spaces, however, the funding for creating those spaces should be from the parents who have benefited such as those described by you above. It would seem that they would be more than willing to pay the cost.

[Melanie_]

Another piece of the puzzle, though, aside from spaces, is who is going to work in them. Training initiatives have to be in place as well, or you end up like Quebec, where they focused on rapid expansion of spaces but hired anyone with a pulse to take care of the children. Chaos resulted, and continues to be a big part of why there are so many problems with the Quebec system. Not everyone has to be trained, but a proportion of trained staff definitely results in higher quality care.

[jdobbin]

In which city? Is cost of the space an issue?

Winnipeg and western Manitoba. I don't know that cost of the space was the issue as lack of employees with certification and willingness to work at the wages offered. My sister was a daycare director who got out of the profession because of the poor pay.

Subsequently, daycares don't get opened to service the demand.

Daycares are more than the just the physical space they occupy. The government sets the standards for who can operate them and who can be employed at them. Not enough people are willing to work at those wages.

[Melanie_]

Personally I don't have any problem with the government creating the spaces, however, the funding for creating those spaces should be from the parents who have benefited such as those described by you above. It would seem that they would be more than willing to pay the cost.

I absolutely agree parents should pay for the cost of care, with a sliding scale for subsidy based on low income. That was never really the issue, even under the Liberal plan - no one was offering free child care, just accessible child care that had safeguards and standards.

[jdobbin]

Personally I don't have any problem with the government creating the spaces, however, the funding for creating those spaces should be from the parents who have benefited such as those described by you above. It would seem that they would be more than willing to pay the cost.

It would seem that Harper himself found out that even with his plan to put money in the hands of parents, it didn't help create daycare spaces. Much like schools, they don't get built by themselves.

[Renegade]

Winnipeg and western Manitoba. I don't know that cost of the space was the issue as lack of employees with certification and willingness to work at the wages offered. My sister was a daycare director who got out of the profession because of the poor pay.

Subsequently, daycares don't get opened to service the demand.

Daycares are more than the just the physical space they occupy. The government sets the standards for who can operate them and who can be employed at them. Not enough people are willing to work at those wages.

I can certainly understand that childcare won't attract enough of the right people with low wages. Those wages are primarily set so low based upon the price parents are willing to pay for childcare.

Perhaps the real issue is, that as parents we expect too much for the price we are willing to pay an as a result suffer from lack of supply.

[Renegade]

It would seem that Harper himself found out that even with his plan to put money in the hands of parents, it didn't help create daycare spaces. Much like schools, they don't get built by themselves.

I was never a big fan of the $100/month plan. IMO it was simply a great way to pander to voting middle-class parents. I don't know that Harper himself expected that simply paying $100/month would lead to more spaces.

[Saturn]

Perhaps the real issue is, that as parents we expect too much for the price we are willing to pay an as a result suffer from lack of supply.

That's precisely why education is mainly funded by governments - it is extremely important but people wouldn't be willing to pay for what it's worth.

[Saturn]

I don't know that Harper himself expected that simply paying $100/month would lead to more spaces.

Of course he didn't expect that - $100/month is far too little to change anything. But he expected it to lead to more votes for his party.