Banker/Wall Street Governance

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:If you want to convince anyone that your model is better you will have to explain how your model would prevent politicians from abusing their power - saying the voters will is not good enough because the voters are very bad about stopping politicians from spending too much money.

This is how you do that:

Riverwind:That is why the current system ensures the BOC is free of direct interference by the politicians.

You just keep it that way.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:Your economic theories are like communism - theoretically appealing to some people but fundamentally flawed.

No, the establishment that you try so hard to support is populated by Trotskyites and is converting the world to communism - big government and everyone dependent on government. Regular college programs are being replaced by police programs so that there are enough people to implement the police state.

Clinton wore a pro Mao button on his suit during his first day in office.

My economic theories are nothing like communism. I believe that people should make money producing useful things for the economy rather than collecting money from usery. Its not a new idea, communism is a new idea and it was invented by the bankers to take over the Russian Empire during the Russian Revolution and begin to issue their debt free cirrency to the Russians. They are seeking a new socialism and its everywhere you look.

[PolyNewbie]

One again, I need to ask you this question below because you always refuse to answer:

Have you ever heard a politician say something that you did not believe ? Have you ever seen anything on TV news that you did not believe ?

[Riverwind]

Riverwind:That is why the current system ensures the BOC is free of direct interference by the politicians.

You just keep it that way.

Free of political interference means the gov't cannot require the BOC to do anything that undermines its responsibility to manage the money supply. This means the BOC would have to refuse any request by the gov't to fund gov't expenditures with money created by the BOC.

My economic theories are nothing like communism. I believe that people should make money producing useful things for the economy rather than collecting money from usery.

Like communists, you are obsessed with the mysterious rich people who 'control' everything and enslave the working class. Like communists, you believe that private enterprise is evil and only the gov't can be trusted to spend money wisely.

I compared your theory to communism because your theory requires that the gov't kill private investment via taxes or interest rates in order to provide cheaper money to the gov't. This kind of trade off would only be proposed by someone who dislikes private enterprise and would rather see the gov't do everything.

I find it amusing that you are so full of yourself. You arguments on almost any topic are so predictable: the evil Rockefellers are controlling everything and have death squads out to exterminate anyone who uncovers their nefarious plots. The premise is farsical and would be hilarious if you weren't so serious - the fact that you believe such things makes it just sad - bordering on pathetic.

Your style of arguement is also quite pathetic. You throw out assertions and assumptions which you claim are 'fact' but offer no evidence other than some website that simply repeats the same assertions without proof. When you are confronted with facts that directly contradict your claims you resort rediculous assertions like 'the gov't keeps two sets of books and the financial information they publish is all lies'. Most people on this forum don't take you seriously anymore - many of the posters here think you are a vicious anti-semite. I am not convinced of that - I suspect your real problem is you refuse to believe anything unless it is a bizarre theory peddled by an anti-establishment wacko and many of those anti-establishment wackos are also anti-semites.

Personally, I never trust the opinion of a single individual or even a small group of individuals. If an idea really had merit then that idea would catch on and you would eventually see it get wide acceptance. That is what did happen with things like acid rain and global warming. If an idea has been around for a long time and still hasn't garnered much acceptance then that is likely a sign that the idea is fundementally flawed.

[kimmy]

The North American Union, in the real world, only exists in the form of trade and security agreements such as NAFTA and SPP.

No. The existing North American Union amalgamates everything from police to meat inspection as well.

They are putting the police state into place for a reason - because when you see the North American Union you will not like it.

Canada isn't being absorbed into a transcontinental police state.

There's no concentration camps. I've seen your video of the rail-yard, and it's the funniest, stupidest thing I've seen in my life.

Anderson Cooper is not a CIA agent.

Dubya Bush is not a 12 foot tall lizard.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:Canada isn't being absorbed into a transcontinental police state.

There's no concentration camps. I've seen your video of the rail-yard, and it's the funniest, stupidest thing I've seen in my life.

Anderson Cooper is not a CIA agent.

Dubya Bush is not a 12 foot tall lizard.

Canada is being absorbed into a continental police state. Its called The North American Union. Policing and security is a big growth industry, technical colleges that used to advertise technical schools are now advertisng police services.

The concentration camps have been announced on mainstream. Haliburton just got a no bid contract to build more for 380 million. they exist in all cities on the continent and are linked by rail.

Anderson Cooper did work for the CIA. Anderson Cooper 360 is code for Anderson Cooper Maximum Spin.

Bush is not a 12 foot lizard but if he was it would sure explain a lot.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:Personally, I never trust the opinion of a single individual or even a small group of individuals. If an idea really had merit then that idea would catch on and you would eventually see it get wide acceptance.

NY Times polls show that 86 % of the Americans think there are problems with the 911 investigations, over 30 % think it was MIHOP.

You won't believe anything unless the TV tells you to believe it.

Most people know the governments keep two sets of books.

I would like it if you stopped reading my posts and just ignore me. A conversation with you is a waste of time because you consider yourself an expert at everything and can be shown to be very niave in the topics you pretend to be expert in.

[kimmy]

Canada is being absorbed into a continental police state. Its called The North American Union.

I keep hearing kooks talk about this, and the only evidence I've ever seen them come up with is normal multinational agreements. Trying to conflate normal multinational trade and security agreements into some sort of plot to merge sovereign countries into a single police state is just paranoia.

Policing and security is a big growth industry, technical colleges that used to advertise technical schools are now advertisng police services.

Yes, policing and security is a big business right now. Governments have made commitments to provide more security at ports and airports and borders, and more policemen on the street. Security is a big issue for many voters. What's that got to do with a conspiracy to amalgamate North America?

The concentration camps have been announced on mainstream. Haliburton just got a no bid contract to build more for 380 million. they exist in all cities on the continent and are linked by rail.

Oh? I wasn't aware. Links, please.

Anderson Cooper did work for the CIA. Anderson Cooper 360 is code for Anderson Cooper Maximum Spin.

uh-huh. Not only is he a secret operative of the New World Order, but he's so brazen as to publicize the fact by using it as a witty double-entendre in the name of his show.

Just like Rumsfeld tipped off the whole world to the "stolen $2.3 trillion" the day before the big operation to cover it all up.

This sort of logic reminds me of the fat-ass redneck who is sure that the NAU is already in place because he saw a Canada/US/Mexico logo on a truck on a highway once.

Bush is not a 12 foot lizard but if he was it would sure explain a lot.

Are you sure he's not a 12 foot tall lizard? He could be. I could be one too...

-k

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:Just like Rumsfeld tipped off the whole world to the "stolen $2.3 trillion" the day before the big operation to cover it all up.

Thats why I thought they did 911 at first that morning because I remebered that announcement by Rumsfeld the night before on CNN. Deny it all you want.. 2+2=5 if you want.

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:This sort of logic reminds me of the fat-ass redneck who is sure that the NAU is already in place because he saw a Canada/US/Mexico logo on a truck on a highway once.

NAU is in place. You are just not being told about it on TV. See www.spp.gov

I think they are going to call it Orwellia though.

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:Yes, policing and security is a big business right now. Governments have made commitments to provide more security at ports and airports and borders, and more policemen on the street. Security is a big issue for many voters.

Why do you think security is so important ? Even if you think Osama attacked us on 911 you have to admit there hasn't been a heck of a lot of terrorist attacks.

You are in the small minority. Its not me and my beliefs that is fringe anymore, its you. Most people do not trust mainstream anymore. They are losing market share while alternative web based media are gaining share. Only 16 % of people believe there wasn't a cover up on 911.

Lots of people are learning about the bankers. Paul Hillier, ex defence minister of Canada has written a book about how the banks operate.

Lots of people know about the IMF and how we make war with countries so our banks can take over and rebuild while creating a slave labour force. Indonesia is a perfect example. I know you like to stand up for the child sex slave rings and 14 year olds pulling 18 hour shifts in Indonesia and the Haitian oligarchy having 5 year old house boys, but you cannot escape the truth forever.

Even if George Bush himself gets on TV and says 2+2 = 5 it doesn't make it true.

If you think this New World Order is a good thing and you are standing up for it, let me ask you: Have you received instruction for the new language yet ?...Maybe you are not included.

Look on PrisonPlanet.com under Police State - they have an MSNBC link with Keith Oberman talking about it. I'm on my way out and do not have time right now. There have been some with Lou Dobbs talking about the New World Order on PrisonPlanet as well. Actually there is all kinds of other evidence posted there as well. Its also been in most papers - Haliburton and their no bid contracts to build detention centers.

[Riverwind]

NY Times polls show that 86 % of the Americans think there are problems with the 911 investigations, over 30 % think it was MIHOP.

34% of Americans think Bush is doing a great job. When I say many people I mean people who are qualified to have an opinion on a subject.

Most people know the governments keep two sets of books.

There might be different ways of reporting the same information but you are trying to claim that publicly available reports are completely wrong. That is pure fantasy that pulled out your a** because you refuse to admit you have been proven wrong.

I would like it if you stopped reading my posts and just ignore me.

Of course, you don't like when your arguments are ripped to shreds. Unfortunately, when I see the rubbish you post I don't like to leave it unanswered because I realize that 30% of the population might actually believe it if they only heard your side.

A conversation with you is a waste of time because you consider yourself an expert at everything and can be shown to be very naive in the topics you pretend to be expert in.

It is clear I do know more than you about most of these topics. More importantly, I am capable of actually analyzing facts and separating fact from fiction. You simply assume that any fact that supports your point of view must be true and that any fact that contradicts it must be false.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:Of course, you don't like when your arguments are ripped to shreds. Unfortunately, when I see the rubbish you post I don't like to leave it unanswered because I realize that 30% of the population might actually believe it if they only heard your side.

I think its more than 30 %. You can't argue that 2+2=5 forever. people do catch on.

Riverwind:It is clear I do know more than you about most of these topics. More importantly, I am capable of actually analyzing facts and separating fact from fiction.

Really, what are your favorite sources of information ? Who do you think is most reliable for news ? What books on banking have you read ? What books on 911 have you read ?

...or do you just watch TV ?

[Riverwind]

Really, what are your favorite sources of information ? Who do you think is most reliable for news ? What books on banking have you read ? What books on 911 have you read ?

I rarely watch TV - I try to get my information from as many internet sources as possible and that does include the traditional media but not exclusively. Whenever possible I go to the original source - if someone says the FEMA report says X then I will go find the FEMA report and see if it actually says X. I never trust any source completely and look for for where they got their information and check to see if they are representing it properly. For example, I looked up the correct translation for Ahmadinejad quote awhile ago but decided that the popular English translation was not that far off base even if it was not precise. I also keep an open mind when I originally looked in the 9/11 issue I actually made a number of posts _supporting_ the idea of a controlled demolition. It took awhile for me to realize that buildings collapsing into their footprint is not an amazing coincidence but a very probable outcome. I also thought that CAP had brilliant ideas about 15 years ago - that was before I started taking university level economics courses. I now know their theories are mostly BS.

[PolyNewbie]

so what are your favorite sources ?

What books on banking have you read ?

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:34% of Americans think Bush is doing a great job. When I say many people I mean people who are qualified to have an opinion on a subject.

87 % want impeachment

[guyser]

87 % want impeachment

An internet poll Polynewbie? Thats going to be your basis for further discussion or rebuttal of anothers post?

Dont forget, anyone in any country can vote on that, let alone the disclaimer on the vote itself from MSNBC that say it has no scientific value.

And like internet polls, mainly those that want to punish Bush will vote. Generally more level headed people will just skip over it.

[PolyNewbie]

guyser:An internet poll Polynewbie? Thats going to be your basis for further discussion or rebuttal of anothers post?

One that shows a heck of a lot of people don't like Bush. You can tell the quality of the poll by its questions. Try voting twice on an internet poll to see if its reliable.

One thing for sure that can be drawn from that poll: MSNBC doesn't like Bush.

[guyser]

[One that shows a heck of a lot of people don't like Bush. You can tell the quality of the poll by its questions. Try voting twice on an internet poll to see if its reliable.

One thing for sure that can be drawn from that poll: MSNBC doesn't like Bush.

No in fact it does not show that a"heck of a lot of people dont like Bush." It shows that those who voted on this internet poll dont like him. Nothing more nothing less.

I have no doubt that there is a large group who do not like Bush , but this poll cannot show that for scientific reasons.

[PolyNewbie]

The Money Textbook is a 5 page free document about money. They do not teach you money is produced in economics classes because it is against UNESCO ineterest to do so and UNESCO controls education.

This would teach many people a lot about money. I have taken basic economics and it is about resources available and how to manage them under our current monetary system. Alternative monetary systems do exist and would change our world in ways that some people just cannot grasp. Life itself could be much better for all of us. We could have better hospitals and education easily. We could have money that we manage instead of it managing us and could easily afford to have a much better more free society.

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance."

James Madison

"In our time, the curse is monetary illiteracy, just as inability to read plain print was the curse in earlier centuries."

Ezra Pound

"I Killed The Banks"

Andrew Jacksons tombstone.

[Riverwind]

They do not teach you money is produced in economics classes because it is against UNESCO interest to do so and UNESCO controls education.

This is another example were you think you can make a point be ignoring facts that demonstrate that you are wrong. In this situation you are wrong because you assume banks create money for free. This is false: only a central bank can create money for free. All other banks have to pay when they create money. The cost of creating money is set by central bank when it sets the bank rate.

The cost to banks when they create money is not direct but it is easy to understand if someone is willing to listen. Any time a bank loans money it goes into the economy and is spent - eventually this money will be returned to a bank somewhere since very few people hoard money in their mattress. When this money is deposited into a bank the bank that created the money must pay interest on it. They may need to pay interest directly to a depositor or they may need to pay interest to another bank. Whatever happens a bank must pay for the privilege of creating money.

All of the sites that you link to ignore this fact which makes most of their conclusions wrong.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:All of the sites that you link to ignore this fact which makes most of their conclusions wrong.

Have you ever taken a university course called "Money & Banking" ? Have you ever read a book about how money is created ? They did not tell you this in university. Your knowledge of economics is warped because universities have top keep aspects of money creation out of course material. They also manage the presentation or "manufacture consent" as Chomsky would put it.

The fact is that banks do create money from nothing and lend it to governments at full face value and collect interest on the loans. They do this when they lend us and corporations the money as well. The banks really do own everything and everybody effectively. They are owed more than we are worth all in return for putting ink on paper. Its fact and easily seen for those that seek the truth. People who want to be right all the time will never see it.

[Riverwind]

The fact is that banks do create money from nothing and lend it to governments at full face value and collect interest on the loans.

PN, I just explained exactly how come it costs banks money when they create money. My explaination should be easy to follow and obvious to anyone who is not hopelessly deluded. I even provided an example with real numbers in a previous post.

Your only response to this argument is 'banks create money for free because I said so'. That kind of argument is BS and simply reinforces your reputation as a fanatic who is not willing to have a discussion based on the facts.

[kimmy]

Why do you think security is so important ? Even if you think Osama attacked us on 911 you have to admit there hasn't been a heck of a lot of terrorist attacks.

That's beside the point.

You asked why police and security is a growth industry, and why colleges are advertising security courses.

The answer is obvious. Security is a growth industry because governments are under pressure to increase security.

If governments were hiring more and more janitors, people would be signing up for "custodial service" courses and they'd see "custodial services" as a field where they can find work. It wouldn't mean that Mr Clean was planning to take over the world.

You are in the small minority. Its not me and my beliefs that is fringe anymore, its you. Most people do not trust mainstream anymore. They are losing market share while alternative web based media are gaining share. Only 16 % of people believe there wasn't a cover up on 911.

You keep repeating this (and the percentages keep creeping up, I notice) but most peoples' questions about 9/11 are along the lines of "did the government ignore warnings?" and "why didn't the Air Force do something?"

Not "did the CIA blow up the buildings" or "did laser beams from space cause the buildings to fall."

Lots of people are learning about the bankers. Paul Hillier, ex defence minister of Canada has written a book about how the banks operate. Lots of people know about the IMF and how we make war with countries so our banks can take over and rebuild while creating a slave labour force. Indonesia is a perfect example. I know you like to stand up for the child sex slave rings and 14 year olds pulling 18 hour shifts in Indonesia and the Haitian oligarchy having 5 year old house boys, but you cannot escape the truth forever.

What the fuck is this shit about?

Even if George Bush himself gets on TV and says 2+2 = 5 it doesn't make it true.

Who's saying 2+2=5?

People who look at old railyards and see concentration camps.

People who look at NAFTA and SPP and see a Unified North American Police State.

That's who's saying 2+2=5.

If you think this New World Order is a good thing and you are standing up for it, let me ask you: Have you received instruction for the new language yet ?...Maybe you are not included.

The New World Order will have a new language? This keeps getting better and better. What will they be speaking? Yiddish? Esperanto? Farsi? Pig Latin? I can hardly wait to hear about this one.

bankers bankers bankers Rothschilds bankbankbank New World Order bankbankbank

Dude, there's no "New World Order". "They" are making way too much money off of the current one to let things change. Your theories aren't even consistent with each other. Think about this: if everything is controlled by bankers, and bankers cause wars to make themselves rich, then why would they create a world government? If wars between countries are so profitable for them, why would they eliminate wars by merging countries?

-k

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:PN, I just explained exactly how come it costs banks money when they create money.

I keep saying you are wrong and asking what books you have read about money or where you have learned anything about money and banking.

I keep pointing out that even John Kenneth Galbraith thought the USA was controlled by the bankers. Apparently he is wrong according to you but you haven't been able to show where you got this superiour understanding of things.