Sen. Leahy comes to the aid of Canadian

[Guthrie]

the Democratic Senate has begun the hearings which the previous Congress, apparently, couldn't be bothered with - tough questions are being asked of the Executive Branch, as they should be and in keeping with a long American tradition of checks and balances --- it is very good to see these checks and balances brought back into American govt.

and Canadians are free to send their thanks for our standing up for their rights as human beings

Link

...

Senator Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate judiciary committee, demanded the Bush administration provide intelligence information to back its claim Arar was ever a security threat to Americans. The Vermont Democrat also asked for a detailed explanation about why Arar still remains on a U.S. terror watch list despite being cleared last year by a Canadian inquiry.

During a heated exchange at the committee with U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Leahy said he was perplexed “this country has not said anything at all that we made a mistake or had any apology” to Arar.

...

Because Arar is currently suing the U.S. government, Gonzales said he could not make any more extensive comments.

Leahy, however, was undeterred.

“It is easy for us to sit here comfortably in this room knowing that we’re not going to be sent off to another country to be tortured,” he said.

“Canadians, who have been our closest allies, longest unguarded frontier in the world, they’re justifiably wondering what’s happened to us ... Let’s not create more terrorism around the world by telling the world that we cannot keep up to our basic standards and beliefs.”

After Leahy paused, Gonzales told the senator “before you get more upset, perhaps you should wait to receive the briefing.”

Replied Leahy: “I’ll wait (until) next week for that briefing. If we don’t get it, I guarantee you there will be another hearing on this issue.”

...

[guyser]

I honestly wonder why Leahy would bother. As for us, what another country thinks of one of our citizens I really could not care less. Their border, their rules.

[Guthrie]

I honestly wonder why Leahy would bother. As for us, what another country thinks of one of our citizens I really could not care less. Their border, their rules.

I wonder what your opinion would be had it been you hauled off to be tortured in Syria.

[Fortunata]

I saw portions of Senator Leahy's questioning this morning. That was some mad Senator. Good for him I say. It's about time someone stood up to Bush's mishandling of this and other instances of sending people off to be tortured. Time to get back to being a defender of rights instead of a perpetrator of abuses.

[guyser]

[

I wonder what your opinion would be had it been you hauled off to be tortured in Syria.

Uhh...how about exactly the same? See , Leahy is American and can only help me whilst inside the US. Since I am (as is Arar) in Canada, while appreciative, I still would wonder why he is doing this.

[Guthrie]

maybe for the Canadians who aren't in Canada -

or maybe for the Americans

or maybe, just because it's the right thing to do

'First they came for the Canadians ...'

[bush_cheney2004]

Uhh...how about exactly the same? See , Leahy is American and can only help me whilst inside the US. Since I am (as is Arar) in Canada, while appreciative, I still would wonder why he is doing this.

Agreed...Leahy was grandstanding. The US is not a "beacon" for human rights for krissakes. Arar got hosed by the Canadians, Americans, Jordanians, and Syrians. Maybe next time he will pay the extra fare for a direct flight to Montreal.

There was a wiki entry concerning Arar's flight from manadtory military service in Syria. That probably didn't help either.

Mr. Arar does not have a right to US air space. John Lennon was prevented access for far less.

[Guthrie]

Uhh...how about exactly the same? See , Leahy is American and can only help me whilst inside the US. Since I am (as is Arar) in Canada, while appreciative, I still would wonder why he is doing this.

Agreed...Leahy was grandstanding. The US is not a "beacon" for human rights for krissakes. Arar got hosed by the Canadians, Americans, Jordanians, and Syrians. Maybe next time he will pay the extra fare for a direct flight to Montreal.

There was a wiki entry concerning Arar's flight from manadtory military service in Syria. That probably didn't help either.

Mr. Arar does not have a right to US air space. John Lennon was prevented access for far less.

and you can defend this attack on the man, how????

grandstanding? considering the seriousness of the crimes committed against Arar, I'm a little disappointed he didn't go over and slap Gonzalez on the face -- of course, THAT, might have been grandstanding.

[guyser]

[

and you can defend this attack on the man, how????

grandstanding? considering the seriousness of the crimes committed against Arar, I'm a little disappointed he didn't go over and slap Gonzalez on the face -- of course, THAT, might have been grandstanding.

Dont mistake my sentiments. I am firmly in the camp that Arar got screwed bad , by the CDN and the US gov'ts.

I am just ssaying I wonder why bother from Leahy's position.

[bush_cheney2004]

and you can defend this attack on the man, how????

grandstanding? considering the seriousness of the crimes committed against Arar, I'm a little disappointed he didn't go over and slap Gonzalez on the face -- of course, THAT, might have been grandstanding.

I'm not defending anything, including the RCMP's incompetence. Arar was deported to his native Syria like any other rendition. He will seek redress and compensation in the courts. The only reason he is getting so much press is because of the collective guilty conscience in Canada for hosing him in the first place.

Do you really think all would be healed if he could fly to Disney World?

[Guthrie]

Let's get something straight right here. Arar was never, 'deported,' he was sent, by a secret policy called, 'extraordinary rendition,' in a secret CIA plane, to a torture session at the hands of professional torturers who seek to curry favor with the CIA.

When he was finally released from US custody, it was to Canada, not Syria. The entire time he was being tortured, he was officially a suspect being held by the US Department of Justice.

[Guthrie]

... Arar's flight from manadtory military service in Syria ...

oh, and this... does anybody (other than me) see the irony here????

[guyser]

The US Dept of Justice has no sovereignty in a foreign country, unless said soil is considered US soil, as in an Embassy or Gitmo.

[bush_cheney2004]

Let's get something straight right here. Arar was never, 'deported,' he was sent, by a secret policy called, 'extraordinary rendition,' in a secret CIA plane, to a torture session at the hands of professional torturers who seek to curry favor with the CIA.

When he was finally released from US custody, it was to Canada, not Syria. The entire time he was being tortured, he was officially a suspect being held by the US Department of Justice.

Maybe...maybe not. Why did the US need Jordan as an intermediary? Rendition and special rendition are the same side of a netherworld coin. Legally, tortured for a year is no worse than tortured for a week, except for drama points. He is not the first or last person to be snagged by ham fisted governments. Krikey, at least he is still alive.

The US government doesn't do back-flips for its own citizens, let alone a suspected Al Qaeda perp from Syria/Canada.

[Guthrie]

Let's get something straight right here. Arar was never, 'deported,' he was sent, by a secret policy called, 'extraordinary rendition,' in a secret CIA plane, to a torture session at the hands of professional torturers who seek to curry favor with the CIA.

When he was finally released from US custody, it was to Canada, not Syria. The entire time he was being tortured, he was officially a suspect being held by the US Department of Justice.

Maybe...maybe not. Why did the US need Jordan as an intermediary? Rendition and special rendition are the same side of a netherworld coin. Legally, tortured for a year is no worse than tortured for a week, except for drama points. He is not the first or last person to be snagged by ham fisted governments. Krikey, at least he is still alive.

The US government doesn't do back-flips for its own citizens, let alone a suspected Al Qaeda perp from Syria/Canada.

The US Govt had a very long history of doing, 'back-flips for its own citizens.' The loss of that attitude is part of what has diminished America.

and that, 'legalese,' about length of torture is simply not true - perhaps if you spent a week in hell and told you could get out OR you would definitely get recompense if you could stick it out for another 51 weeks, well, I won't believe you would go for plan 'B' - even if you swear on a Canadian bible

[bush_cheney2004]

The US Govt had a very long history of doing, 'back-flips for its own citizens.' The loss of that attitude is part of what has diminished America.

and that, 'legalese,' about length of torture is simply not true - perhaps if you spent a week in hell and told you could get out OR you would definitely get recompense if you could stick it out for another 51 weeks, well, I won't believe you would go for plan 'B' - even if you swear on a Canadian bible

Nonsense...the USA is not and has never been the fantasy bastion of human rights lamented as only missing over the past six years. From slavery to capital punishment, who the hell would give Arar even Top 100 billing for most abused?

I was trained to go a lot longer than 52 weeks for Uncle Sam. Maybe Arar could have fallen back on his training had he completed Syrian service.

What is a Canadian bible?

[Catchme]

Let's get something straight right here. Arar was never, 'deported,' he was sent, by a secret policy called, 'extraordinary rendition,' in a secret CIA plane, to a torture session at the hands of professional torturers who seek to curry favor with the CIA.

When he was finally released from US custody, it was to Canada, not Syria. The entire time he was being tortured, he was officially a suspect being held by the US Department of Justice.

Legally, tortured for a year is no worse than tortured for a week, except for drama points. He is not the first or last person to be snagged by ham fisted governments. Krikey, at least he is still alive.

Excuse me, I guess you're speaking from the voice of experience in regards to knowing that being tortured for 52 weeks, is no different than being tortured for 1 week?

That is almost the most incredible thing I have ever read. Until that is you followed it by using "except for drama points".

"Encumbered by idjits we trudged on!"

That he was not the first nor will he be the last is not a point, torture is against US law, as it is in Canada.

People should be writing the Canadian government and screaming about the RCMP lies. Canadians and Americans should be writing to the US governmnt screaming their outrage at what was done to Arar, not merely saying at least he is alive.

Leahy was justified in his anger, the US government, his government, did nastily wrong.

Our MPs should be screaming about this too. Too bad the head of the RCMP Zaccarelli used another excuse to get away from being held accountable for this.

[bush_cheney2004]

Excuse me, I guess you're speaking from the voice of experience in regards to knowing that being tortured for 52 weeks, is no different than being tortured for 1 week?

That is almost the most incredible thing I have ever read. Until that is you followed it by using "except for drama points".

"Encumbered by idjits we trudged on!"

That he was not the first nor will he be the last is not a point, torture is against US law, as it is in Canada.

People should be writing the Canadian government and screaming about the RCMP lies. Canadians and Americans should be writing to the US governmnt screaming their outrage at what was done to Arar, not merely saying at least he is alive.

Leahy was justified in his anger, the US government, his government, did nastily wrong.

Our MPs should be screaming about this too. Too bad the head of the RCMP Zaccarelli used another excuse to get away from being held accountable for this.

Too little...too late. Arar can take a number and sit down to enjoy his fifteen minutes of fame. If Canada wants to get its undies in a bunch go for it, but the US has plenty of other "nastily wrongs" to deal with on a routine basis. We're still messing around with the Millennium Bomber from Canada in court.

[Guthrie]

The US Govt had a very long history of doing, 'back-flips for its own citizens.' The loss of that attitude is part of what has diminished America.

and that, 'legalese,' about length of torture is simply not true - perhaps if you spent a week in hell and told you could get out OR you would definitely get recompense if you could stick it out for another 51 weeks, well, I won't believe you would go for plan 'B' - even if you swear on a Canadian bible

Nonsense...the USA is not and has never been the fantasy bastion of human rights lamented as only missing over the past six years. From slavery to capital punishment, who the hell would give Arar even Top 100 billing for most abused?

I was trained to go a lot longer than 52 weeks for Uncle Sam. Maybe Arar could have fallen back on his training had he completed Syrian service.

What is a Canadian bible?

"fantasy bastion of human rights" --- do you have to make up a premise I never posed in order to debate this?

The US has, on a very large number of occasions, pulled it's citizens out of foreign difficulties - check your history. There was a time when a good defense against arrest in a foreign country was to simply say, 'I'm an American citizen and you can't do this to me'

[bush_cheney2004]

The US has, on a very large number of occasions, pulled it's citizens out of foreign difficulties - check your history. There was a time when a good defense against arrest in a foreign country was to simply say, 'I'm an American citizen and you can't do this to me'

Largely an urban myth for sure....try explaining away a drug arrest and conviction with such Yankee nonsense...even in Mexico. Hell, it ain't no frickin' picnic back home for that matter. "Human Rights" is the cover story for "We'll do as we damn well please".

[Guthrie]

no myth, historical fact -- welcome to America

http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm

[bush_cheney2004]

no myth, historical fact -- welcome to America

http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm

Hmmm...why is it that you eat that kind of propaganda up in this case, but not......let's say, for the INVASION OF GRANADA to save poor imperiled medical students!

How would this help Arar when it was the US that deported him to Syria?

[Guthrie]

no myth, historical fact -- welcome to America

http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm

Hmmm...why is it that you eat that kind of propaganda up in this case, but not......let's say, for the INVASION OF GRANADA to save poor imperiled medical students!

How would this help Arar when it was the US that deported him to Syria?

sorry, I'm going to have to demand you produce my quotes on Granada

[bush_cheney2004]

sorry, I'm going to have to demand you produce my quotes on Granada

Don't be coy....you know exactly what I mean. When Reagan invaded Granada, the "rescue" of medical students was the cover story for killing the Marxist regime and Cuban supporters.

Works like a charm to get the USMC a field trip.

Anyway, and using this line of discussion, does this mean that Canada should have rescued Arar? Oh the humanity of it all....(sobbing)

[Guthrie]

well, I do know exactly what you're doing --- you're trapped in an untennable position and you are trying to cute your way out with a line of bullroar and a smiley

sorry, your pigs don't fly - not in American air space