Should Illegals Get Free Health Care

[scribblet]

I have to say no, considering Canadians are on wait lists and we are always being told the system needs more money. She can go home and get treatment there.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/weinreb011507.htm

Last Friday and Saturday, the National Post wrote about a woman with a potentially fatal heart condition. The 67-year-old woman will die if she doesn't undergo surgery to repair her aortic valve. But the unnamed woman is an illegal immigrant from St. Lucia and as such she has no access to government funded medical care. And she can't afford the $20,000-$50,000 that the surgery to correct the defect would cost.

The publicizing of the woman's plight has reignited the debate that arises from time to time about whether or not our publicly funded health care system should cover those who are residing in Canada illegally. Currently, hospitals must treat those in emergency situations but her condition is not in the same category as someone who has just collapsed from a stroke or has been hit by a car. If some people had their way, everyone who is physically present in Canada would have the same access to the full range of services that our medical system provides as do citizens and legal residents.

snip-

Anyone who has at least a bit of compassion naturally feels sorry for this woman from St. Lucia who is facing an early death that she would not be facing were she a Canadian citizen or legal resident. But we can't go down the road of making those who break our laws de facto citizens. And we can't save the world.

[White Doors]

No

[mikedavid00]

Anyone who has at least a bit of compassion naturally feels sorry for this woman from St. Lucia

No.

She must be sent back to her country of St. Lucia.

Canada must never, ever sent the presidence that people who come here illegally can get free medical care.

If someone feels srtongly for life (as I do), then you will NOT support this because it is this woman which gets treated at the expense of Canadian lives. We don't look after others until we can look after ouselves.

I just found out today that someone that one of my friends father died in hopital at an early age.. due to 'liver problems' of some sort.

[Renegade]

Last Friday and Saturday, the National Post wrote about a woman with a potentially fatal heart condition. The 67-year-old woman will die if she doesn't undergo surgery to repair her aortic valve. But the unnamed woman is an illegal immigrant from St. Lucia and as such she has no access to government funded medical care. And she can't afford the $20,000-$50,000 that the surgery to correct the defect would cost.

The woman is no different than the millions of people outside Canada who don't have access to the Canadian health system. No one doubts that those others should not be entitled to access to free Canadian healthcare. The only real difference with this woman is she happens to be in Canada. No she should not get free helathcare.

Anyone who has at least a bit of compassion naturally feels sorry for this woman from St. Lucia who is facing an early death that she would not be facing were she a Canadian citizen or legal resident.

There are absolutely ways of showing compassion for this woman. For example, those who wish to, can donate funds to pay for this woman's medical treatment.

----------------------

The national post story: Lack of OHIP may kill St. Lucia migrant

[guyser]

Yes she should. I did not find where her status was determined. The author merely said she was an illegal immigrant. How was that determined.

Once that is defined, I may change my vote on this one.

[Renegade]

Yes she should. I did not find where her status was determined. The author merely said she was an illegal immigrant. How was that determined.

Once that is defined, I may change my vote on this one.

If you look at the National Post story using the link I posted:

She agreed to allow the National Post to tell her story on the condition that she not be identified. She is afraid she will be deported

You see that she pretty much admits that she is illegal.

[guyser]

Close but not close enough for me.

A person visiting from Buffalo for a day can be deported for a traffic violation. It does not make them an illegal immigrant.

You are right in that she leads one to think she is, bit lets get the classification first .

[Renegade]

Close but not close enough for me.

A person visiting from Buffalo for a day can be deported for a traffic violation. It does not make them an illegal immigrant.

You are right in that she leads one to think she is, bit lets get the classification first .

No one in either article disputes that she is illegal. If you assume she is illegal, were do you stand?

BTW, even a person visiting Buffalo for a day, would not and should not be entitled to free healthcare.

[madmax]

I have to say no, considering Canadians are on wait lists and we are always being told the system needs more money. She can go home and get treatment there.

Anyone who has at least a bit of compassion naturally feels sorry for this woman from St. Lucia who is facing an early death that she would not be facing were she a Canadian citizen or legal resident. But we can't go down the road of making those who break our laws de facto citizens. And we can't save the world.

No we can't. Nor are Canadians Heartless souls. Clearly their is nothing to stop people from raising the funds on their own and the media can encourage it. It doesn't have to be the burden of government, or bending the rules. The doctors could do it pro bono, and then when she is healthy, deport her back to St. Lucia.

Which is a very nice place.

[guyser]

No one in either article disputes that she is illegal. If you assume she is illegal, were do you stand?

BTW, even a person visiting Buffalo for a day, would not and should not be entitled to free healthcare.

Okay, lets "assume" she is an illegal. For what reason is she here ? If she came ONLY for the critical care she needs then no, she is not entitled. However , should she be visiting , even on an extended visit (as my partners secretary does , she is St Lucian and she goes for months to St Lucia to visit) and her medical condition worsened through no fault of her own , then yes she should get fixed up.

To not treat her , what options do we have? Lets look at that one. There is likely no airline flying in and out of Canada that would fly this woman home simply due to her medical condition. She could die en route and that is not what any airline wants and would deny her boarding , and rightfully so.

The lets get Imm Canada to hire a jet to deport her. Fine, except that will cost us $50,000+ so where is the saving there?

Give her the surgery and send her home on her return ticket.

And yes, I readily acknowledge the slippery slope of this case.

[Renegade]

Clearly their is nothing to stop people from raising the funds on their own and the media can encourage it. It doesn't have to be the burden of government, or bending the rules.

If we let this person "purchase" healthcare, why should we not let anyone purchase healthcare? Isn't a common complaint that resources are in short supply? If so, why set a precedent by selling medical services to foreign nationals?

An alternative is to raise funds, and send her home to be treated in her own country, or if medical care is not available there, in a country such as the US.

[Renegade]

For what reason is she here ? If she came ONLY for the critical care she needs then no, she is not entitled. However , should she be visiting , even on an extended visit (as my partners secretary does , she is St Lucian and she goes for months to St Lucia to visit) and her medical condition worsened through no fault of her own , then yes she should get fixed up.

If your decision on whether she should or shouldn't be entitled to free healthcare depends upon her intent, then you open a much more subjective determination than one of status. How will you determine intent? Will you put everyone on a lie-detector to determine if they are truly here and just happened to get sick? What woudl stop from people from masquarading as tourists and staying to get expensive treatment?

To not treat her , what options do we have? Lets look at that one. There is likely no airline flying in and out of Canada that would fly this woman home simply due to her medical condition. She could die en route and that is not what any airline wants and would deny her boarding , and rightfully so.

Nothing seems to indicate that the woman is in immediate danger of dying. Have you flown any airline to St Lucia which has done anything to accertain long-term health as a prerequisite to flying?

Give her the surgery and send her home on her return ticket.

If you do so, brace yourself for the flood of medically needy illegals who will demand the same treatmetn.

[mikedavid00]

Yes she should. I did not find where her status was determined. The author merely said she was an illegal immigrant.

Self-hatred.

[madmax]

If we let this person "purchase" healthcare, why should we not let anyone purchase healthcare? Isn't a common complaint that resources are in short supply? If so, why set a precedent by selling medical services to foreign nationals?

We all "purchase" Health Care.

This person is not known to be paying into the system, and as far as the article is concerned, is not a Canadian Citizen.

This person would not be jumping the queue as the Queu is based on need.

And I don't know how you think the system works, but when my American and Australian Racer friends come here and get busted up, they leave with a very heavy bill, some close to $80,000. The Australian had no coverage here while racing for a factory team, and we raised some of the money to ease the pain, and his career is finished, and he is probably still paying.

[guyser]

Nothing seems to indicate that the woman is in immediate danger of dying. Have you flown any airline to St Lucia which has done anything to accertain long-term health as a prerequisite to flying?

Give her the surgery and send her home on her return ticket.

If you do so, brace yourself for the flood of medically needy illegals who will demand the same treatmetn.

Since I was asked what my opinions are based on what ifs, it was a reasonable assumption that she is "critical" and thus cannot fly.

From the article ..."The 67-year-old woman will die if she doesn't undergo surgery to repair her aortic valve."

Since an aortic valve will rupture at any time, it would likely be her that would alert the airline in the hopes of not going, thus improving her chances at getting it done here.

And you will see where I addressed the slippery slope argument, but was not quoted on that. Yes , I agree it opens a door I dont want opened , but where is the alternative?

Hey mikedavid....what does self hating have to do with this?

[Canuck E Stan]

An alternative is to raise funds, and send her home to be treated in her own country, or if medical care is not available there, in a country such as the US.

Where are the feminist women's groups when it's needed.

Maybe they can send her a pamphlet on illegal immigrant women's rights.

[Renegade]

Since I was asked what my opinions are based on what ifs, it was a reasonable assumption that she is "critical" and thus cannot fly.

Well it is reasonable to assume it is illegal since the article says so, and presumably the NP is a reputable source. There is no evidence that the condition is critical. It woudl seem your standard of establising illegality is far more rigourous than the one you have for determining the criticality of her illness.

it would likely be her that would alert the airline in the hopes of not going, thus improving her chances at getting it done here.

If she played that game, of doing everyone in her power to avoid deportation, there is a simple answer. Do nothing. No treatment, nothing. If you read the article you will see that she has an even greater fear than dying, it is the fear of dying here, away from her homeland. As soon as it was clear she was not getting free treatment, she would be on her way.

And you will see where I addressed the slippery slope argument, but was not quoted on that. Yes , I agree it opens a door I dont want opened , but where is the alternative?

I didn't quote it because I had no issue with it. It is more than a slippery slope it is a precedent.

[August1991]

I say that she should wait in the queue like everybody else. How did she get to see a specialist so quickly?

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This case is the tip of an iceberg one rarely hears about: Canadian hospitals frequently treat people yet never receive payment for services rendered. This is even true among Canadians. The Quebec health system is notorious for not paying for services delivered to insured Quebecers who are treated outside Quebec. Many legal visitors to Canada are treated yet the hospital or clinic collect no fees.

I have twice been treated (once in Alberta and once in Ontario) and the bureaucracy was simply too complicated to collect any fees. Others who are not covered by provincial health insurance have told me similar stories. Sometimes fraud is involved but not always.

I'll admit that the system is somewhat tighter now than in the past but it is important to understand that Canadian hospitals are not designed to collect fees. Canadian hospitals function like Soviet enterprises: there is no connection between the money coming in and the services going out. This fundamental disconnect is the source of most of the problems in Canada's health system.

Incidentally, I believe that hospitals in the US are required by law to offer emergency treatment without fees.

[guyser]

Renegade,

Thus the reason I did not want to input my opinion without knowing certain "whys" but was asked too based on some assumptions.

Should have stuck to my guns and waited to find out why she is deemed "illegal". Then commented.

[August1991]

Should have stuck to my guns and waited to find out why she is deemed "illegal". Then commented.

I'm confused about why her status in Canada has any bearing on medical treatment.

If she was being held in detention prior to deportation, then the Canadian government would have to provide her with necessary medical care.

If she has a refugee case pending, then she's here legally. The article refers to an "illegal immigrant" but it's possible that she has simply overstayed a visitor visa.

Anyone in need of urgent medical care will be treated in a Canadian hospital - regardless of their status here.

[mikedavid00]

To not treat her , what options do we have?

Again self hatred.

So basically, it's OK to kill unborn baby in Canada, but God forbid we refuse medical treatment to an ILLEGAL who couldn't give a damn about Canada and is here to use our system.

I tell her to get out, go back home, becuase her surgery is ultimately taking life away from Canadians.

---

By the way, I must say that it may be news to many that there is an 'illegal alien' in Canada. It's not news to those that live here in the GTA where the number of illegals are estimated at around 40,000. No one knows really how many come and just 'stay' each year. Many are believed to be rejected refugee claimaints. There was talk that the number is around 10,000 20,000 a year that come illegally. I have known several friends that personally know many illegals.

What I can say is that almost all resturaunt cooks in ethnic resturaunts are most likely illegals. Yes this goes for Alberta and almost anywhere in Canada.

[mikedavid00]

Anyone in need of urgent medical care will be treated in a Canadian hospital - regardless of their status here.

Same in the US and all first world countries.

The US would *never* allow her to 'wait' for a surgery that is deemed important for her life.

She needs to leave. This is not her country. She has never paid into our system and she compromises healtchare for your and my parents and gradparents who NEED the surgery and are on waiting lists.

Sorry Lady, GET OUT.

[mikedavid00]

..."The 67-year-old woman will die if she doesn't undergo surgery to repair her aortic valve."

Yes.

Just like every other Canadian that is waiting on the list for this surgery and DIES WAITING.

She needs to be ARRESTED, DETAINED, AND SENT BACK HOME.

But oh yes.. maybe weshould give her medical care and grant her stay..

after all, she COULD BE A VOTE FOR THE LIBERAL PARTY.

[Canuck E Stan]

mikedavid00

I have known several friends that personally know many illegals.

What I can say is that almost all resturaunt cooks in ethnic resturaunts are most likely illegals. Yes this goes for Alberta and almost anywhere in Canada.

mikedavid00

I know a guy, who knows a guy who said he knows a guy who personally said you're full of shit.

Can't back up your statements with factual information or facts,don't bother stating it.

I heard that from a guy who knows a guy. Maybe you know this guy?

I think you'd be very lucky to have..... several...... friends

[mikedavid00]

there is no connection between the money coming in and the services going out. This fundamental disconnect is the source of most of the problems in Canada's health system.

Bingo.