Dion Courting Western Canada

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070113/national/sask_dion

I was talking Geoffrey about this the other day. He noted that Dion pointedly wasn't going to create a policy that hurts Alberta. Now, he is going into Saskatchewan to make sure the Liberal are hearing farmers.

I think this is in keeping with the idea to make sure the Liberals challenge right across the country rather than in their past areas of strength.

[B. Max]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070113/national/sask_dion

I was talking Geoffrey about this the other day. He noted that Dion pointedly wasn't going to create a policy that hurts Alberta. Now, he is going into Saskatchewan to make sure the Liberal are hearing farmers.

I think this is in keeping with the idea to make sure the Liberals challenge right across the country rather than in their past areas of strength.

With oil patch slowly shutting down and people already losing their homes, Dion is lucky he wasn't strung up with the details his plan to further punish the oil patch. Yes make them buy carbon credits from other companies. Where will these other companies be. Of course, in the great failed social experiment of Quebec.

[White Doors]

With oil patch slowly shutting down and people already losing their homes,

Where is this happening?

[jdobbin]

With oil patch slowly shutting down and people already losing their homes, Dion is lucky he wasn't strung up with the details his plan to further punish the oil patch. Yes make them buy carbon credits from other companies. Where will these other companies be. Of course, in the great failed social experiment of Quebec.

Citation?

[B. Max]

With oil patch slowly shutting down and people already losing their homes,

Where is this happening?

Grande Prairie and High level but it is general across the province. By next summer you will be able to pick up a house in Grande Prairie for a song. What you won't be able to get is job. At this time of year we should be crying for trucks, but instead, the phone is ringing with people looking for work and we don't have it either.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Housing prices have come back to earth a little from the peak this summer.

The price of oil is off, 20% or so from its peak.

I can definitelty believe that some people may have over-extended themselves....

[mikedavid00]

Grande Prairie and High level but it is general across the province. By next summer you will be able to pick up a house in Grande Prairie for a song. What you won't be able to get is job. At this time of year we should be crying for trucks, but instead, the phone is ringing with people looking for work and we don't have it either.

Yes. That's just what I was saying a few weeks back.

Comment Geoffery?

[jdobbin]

Grande Prairie and High level but it is general across the province. By next summer you will be able to pick up a house in Grande Prairie for a song. What you won't be able to get is job. At this time of year we should be crying for trucks, but instead, the phone is ringing with people looking for work and we don't have it either.

Citation?

[B. Max]

Citation?

So far the media has been silent on what's happening. Most likely hoping that if they don't mention the R word it will go away. Most likely remembering what happened as a result of the NEP. They won't be able to ignor it much longer.

[Ricki Bobbi]

So far the media has been silent on what's happening. Most likely hoping that if they don't mention the R word it will go away. Most likely remembering what happened as a result of the NEP. They won't be able to ignor it much longer.

The economy is in a strange position now. Some indicators point to a recession and some point to the good times keeping on rolling on.

Still tons of jobs to be had in Calgary.

[jdobbin]

So far the media has been silent on what's happening. Most likely hoping that if they don't mention the R word it will go away. Most likely remembering what happened as a result of the NEP. They won't be able to ignor it much longer.

Well, I know oil prices are down but now that the cold has returned, we could see oil go back up a bit this week. The forecasts for Alberta's growth have not dropped as a result of environmental policies. You could say they've been affected by a warm winter. And even then, it gives the province a breather from growth that is ultimately destabilizing.

[geoffrey]

Grande Prairie and High level but it is general across the province. By next summer you will be able to pick up a house in Grande Prairie for a song. What you won't be able to get is job. At this time of year we should be crying for trucks, but instead, the phone is ringing with people looking for work and we don't have it either.

Yes. That's just what I was saying a few weeks back.

Comment Geoffery?

High Level isn't an oil capital, I'm afraid.

Alberta's unemployment is lower than anywhere in North America and our per capita GDP excedes anywhere in North America. By no means are we failing here, we just aren't as far ahead as we were six months ago.

Alberta is still by a massive margin the richest, highest employed area in Canada. And we are also clearly still very short on skilled and unskilled labour.

--

About Dion. Tough to say. Buying these credits is dangerous, I don't agree with a market for credits.

August constantly points out that Kyoto attempted to solve two problems at once, pollution and global poverty. I tend to agree. Another GHG market within Canada would do the same. Have rich Alberta pay Quebec and the Maritimes because they don't bother to develop industry.

If we say Alberta's oil is the major problem, ok fine. But the major units of burning it are built in Ontario. Will the burden fall equally on both? I highly doubt it. With McGuinty whining like he is, Ontario won't take any more contributions into equalisation. So Alberta is going to be forced to carry the weight.

Silly silly silly.

Whatever Dion does, it's highly unlikely Albertans would elect Liberal MP's next election. What are they going to do to make our lives better than the CPC does? Nothing. So who cares what he says?

Telling us his impact on our industry will be less than we think isn't going to win seats. Telling us his environmental policy will not in any way affect our standard of living would do the trick.

I really fear this environmental plan will be another equalisation program as it creates a market for credits. We've got too much equalisation already, any more money leaving Alberta that doesn't come back is bottom line absolutely unacceptable.

[Saturn]

If we say Alberta's oil is the major problem, ok fine. But the major units of burning it are built in Ontario.

WTF are you talking about? Your oil goes to the US. We buy very little of it and most of our oil comes from overseas.

I really fear this environmental plan will be another equalisation program as it creates a market for credits. We've got too much equalisation already, any more money leaving Alberta that doesn't come back is bottom line absolutely unacceptable.

As I previously mentioned, Alberta sucks away labour from other provinces and in return dumps its weak and old back in the other provinces. You know, I don't see why Nova Scotians should raise and educate workers and then you figure you have the right to their time and skills without paying something in return. Also, I don't see why you believe you have the right to use other provinces as landfills for human waste without paying for it. So take it easy, it's a two way street. You ought to stop complaining about equalization. Not to mention that your economy would have imploded if it wasn't for the rest of the country to keep it from doing so.

[blueblood]

If we say Alberta's oil is the major problem, ok fine. But the major units of burning it are built in Ontario.

WTF are you talking about? Your oil goes to the US. We buy very little of it and most of our oil comes from overseas.

That makes as much sense as a fat girl who has a career in nutrition. Why would we as a net exporter of oil import oil? We export Canola oil to Europe for biodiesel now for goodness sakes. I don't believe that at all and would like some proof.

[geoffrey]

If we say Alberta's oil is the major problem, ok fine. But the major units of burning it are built in Ontario.

WTF are you talking about? Your oil goes to the US. We buy very little of it and most of our oil comes from overseas.

Who cares where the oil comes from? You really have a suprisingly futile understanding of the industry and how this is all working for an economist. Ontario provides the means for Canadians to pollute, as much as Alberta does anyways (like you said, we don't burn Alberta oil... which is slightly untrue, 40% is consumed domestically).

Because you burn US oil it's not an Ontario problem. Uh huh. By your logic we should be taxing Gulf Coast states, North Sea firms and Norway for GHG emissions and not Alberta IMO.

As I previously mentioned, Alberta sucks away labour from other provinces and in return dumps its weak and old back in the other provinces. You know, I don't see why Nova Scotians should raise and educate workers and then you figure you have the right to their time and skills without paying something in return.

What right do Nova Scotians have to not work and collect Alberta money while we suffer from a shortage?

Also, I don't see why you believe you have the right to use other provinces as landfills for human waste without paying for it. So take it easy, it's a two way street. You ought to stop complaining about equalization. Not to mention that your economy would have imploded if it wasn't for the rest of the country to keep it from doing so.

Why do we use other provinces for landfills, what is happening here?

You don't use our oil remember, we'd do just fine without you thanks. What exactly do we get for our money?

[Saturn]

I don't know what Dion is doing in Alberta and Saskatchewan besides showing up there now because he won't have time for them during an election campaign. Even then it's a complete waste of his time because Albertans couldn't care less about the Liberals and Saskatchewan voters care far more about gay marriage than anything else - so he won't get their votes either.

[geoffrey]

I don't know what Dion is doing in Alberta and Saskatchewan besides showing up there now because he won't have time for them during an election campaign. Even then it's a complete waste of his time because Albertans couldn't care less about the Liberals and Saskatchewan voters care far more about gay marriage than anything else - so he won't get their votes either.

Your Eastern ignorance is showing.

If the Liberals had policies that would improve the standard of living for Albertans, we'd vote for them. But they don't. So we won't.

Your right, Dion shouldn't waste his time unless he brings somethign to the table that will be great for us. If not, who cares, why should we vote differently?

[madmax]

Why would we as a net exporter of oil import oil? I don't believe that at all and would like some proof.

It's the result of the FTA and the backlash to the NEP of the 80s. Oil is sold to the Market, where Canada has been the #1 Supplier to the USA. We then have to import oil at market prices.

From the Canadian Association of Petroleum Products.

Exports: Crude Oil: 1.58 million barrels per day

Imports: Crude Oil: 927,000 barrels per

I don't know why you wouldn't believe it. Probably because it doesn't make any sense in a Nationalistic Sense.

But I am certain Geoffery can provide the economic details. He's proven to me he is pretty solid in this regards.

[Saturn]

Your Eastern ignorance is showing.

If the Liberals had policies that would improve the standard of living for Albertans, we'd vote for them. But they don't. So we won't.

Your right, Dion shouldn't waste his time unless he brings somethign to the table that will be great for us. If not, who cares, why should we vote differently?

Your Western ignorance dictates that the Liberals cannot have policies that are good for Alberta. If it's Liberal - it's anti-Western and it's bad by definition. So, no, Dion won't be bringing anything to the table that you will like. He is wasting his time with you.

[Saturn]

That makes as much sense as a fat girl who has a career in nutrition. Why would we as a net exporter of oil import oil? We export Canola oil to Europe for biodiesel now for goodness sakes. I don't believe that at all and would like some proof.

Oh, you clueless but are as opinionated as a fat girl when it comes to ice cream anyway. You want proof - go find it yourself.

[geoffrey]

Your Eastern ignorance is showing.

If the Liberals had policies that would improve the standard of living for Albertans, we'd vote for them. But they don't. So we won't.

Your right, Dion shouldn't waste his time unless he brings somethign to the table that will be great for us. If not, who cares, why should we vote differently?

Your Western ignorance dictates that the Liberals cannot have policies that are good for Alberta. If it's Liberal - it's anti-Western and it's bad by definition. So, no, Dion won't be bringing anything to the table that you will like. He is wasting his time with you.

No no, they can have policies good for Alberta. Kennedy mentioned a whole shwack of policies that would benefit Alberta.

He is wasting his time with me if he's going to impose regulations and taxes nearly exclusively on companies in the province where I earn my living. He should have announced his policy in Quebec, the province that will benefit from such an incursion into provincial jurisdiction (natural resources).

Announce a policy that allows provinces to overstep Ottawa (like Quebec does) in bringing in skilled immigrants or how about a policy that creates a worker program where Alberta companies can reduce some of the barriers that prevent us from importing Maritimers to fill in the job vacancies. How about a recognition of the contributions of small-business to Canada by eliminating much of the corporate tax on small-business entities (as most provinces have). These are things that'd sell like hotcakes in Alberta. And they all could be Liberal policies. I'm not asking for a so-con revolution and slashing of 50% of Ottawa's spending... I'm asking for a couple policies that'll make Albertans go hmmm... interesting.

A new regulatory/taxation environment on our industry in Quebec's favour is not something to ever announce in Alberta. So your right, why bother?

It's obvious that most Liberals share your screw the west, well take the rest vision in that they elected Dion as leader as well, someone unable to sell their message beyond the traditional Liberal powerbase in Quebec and possibly Ontario.

[Saturn]

Who cares where the oil comes from? You really have a suprisingly futile understanding of the industry and how this is all working for an economist. Ontario provides the means for Canadians to pollute, as much as Alberta does anyways (like you said, we don't burn Alberta oil... which is slightly untrue, 40% is consumed domestically).

Because you burn US oil it's not an Ontario problem. Uh huh. By your logic we should be taxing Gulf Coast states, North Sea firms and Norway for GHG emissions and not Alberta IMO.

You were saying that you dig up the oil, we use it, you pay green levies on it. That's bull because we hardly use any of your oil. Secondly, that's not how a GHG emissions market works, so bull again.

What right do Nova Scotians have to not work and collect Alberta money while we suffer from a shortage?

Nova Scotians have the right to do whatever the hell they please and you can suffer from a shortage in the dark cause that's what you deserve. They are real damn nice to give you a hand and you ought to thank them for it and pay for it, not treat them like crap.

You don't use our oil remember, we'd do just fine without you thanks. What exactly do we get for our money?

Without ROC, you'd get far less money unless you figured out a way to make oil dig itself up. Since you couldn't do that, you'd get very severe labour shortages and hyperinflation instead and your economy would implode. You are just real damn lucky to have us.

[geoffrey]

You were saying that you dig up the oil, we use it, you pay green levies on it. That's bull because we hardly use any of your oil. Secondly, that's not how a GHG emissions market works, so bull again.

How would your market work then? Because every one I've seen proposed boils down to a transfer of Alberta money from the oil sands in order to pay for Quebec's 'green revolution'.

Nova Scotians have the right to do whatever the hell they please and you can suffer from a shortage in the dark cause that's what you deserve. They are real damn nice to give you a hand and you ought to thank them for it and pay for it, not treat them like crap.

They make more in Alberta than on welfare. I really struggle with how you support people doing nothing while others suffer because of it.

I think the reality of the situation is that Nova Scotians (or anyone east of Winnipeg) don't feel an ounce of obligation to help us out. Despite us keeping them from starving to death for the last 20 years.... It's a great reflection on how ridiculous the notion of Canada as a country has become. There is a labour shortage in CANADA, whether you agree or not there are unfilled jobs here, and people should be obliged to pitch in and get a job.

Without ROC, you'd get far less money unless you figured out a way to make oil dig itself up. Since you couldn't do that, you'd get very severe labour shortages and hyperinflation instead and your economy would implode. You are just real damn lucky to have us.

I don't see how it'd be any different inside or outside Canada. Opening our borders to Canadians to work here would be no biggy, and our massively lower taxation would have businesses and people flocking to it.

So really, no, I don't buy your Canada is a stockpile of welfare receipients that Alberta can con into working there theory. We pay a great deal to keep that stockpile alive, so I'm sure if it's really that great of deal for us... unless of course you obliged people to take higher than welfare paying jobs in Alberta when they are physically capable of doing so.

[B. Max]

Grande Prairie and High level but it is general across the province. By next summer you will be able to pick up a house in Grande Prairie for a song. What you won't be able to get is job. At this time of year we should be crying for trucks, but instead, the phone is ringing with people looking for work and we don't have it either.

Yes. That's just what I was saying a few weeks back.

Comment Geoffery?

High Level isn't an oil capital, I'm afraid.

The High Level area is one of the largest oil fields in Alberta. It is three hundred clicks long and over two hundred wide. With Husky, Exxon, and Apache all running big operations there.

[B. Max]

As I previously mentioned, Alberta sucks away labour from other provinces and in return dumps its weak and old back in the other provinces. You know, I don't see why Nova Scotians should raise and educate workers and then you figure you have the right to their time and skills without paying something in return. Also, I don't see why you believe you have the right to use other provinces as landfills for human waste without paying for it. So take it easy, it's a two way street. You ought to stop complaining about equalization. Not to mention that your economy would have imploded if it wasn't for the rest of the country to keep it from doing so.

What nonsense. People flee the jobless economies of other provinces, after money stolen from Alberta through the extrotion system pays to train them. If it weren't for Alberta the eastern part of the country would be a third world back water.