Liberal Khan to cross floor to Tory backbench

[mikedavid00]

As a voter, I would be very angry with the member who represented me and then decided to cross the floor. I think there should be a law brought in, that if a member decides he has to leave, then he/she should go as a independent until an election is called and then he/she can change parties. By Khan joining the Cons, his interest lies in being on what he thinks is the winning side. IF he wants to be able to advise the PM, then he can do it from being an independent!

Heheh. Yeah I totally agree. I do find this move overall positive for the CPC which I support. But in the end, I must say that this does not constitute the will of the people and is non democratic.

See folks, this is called being impartial and non-partisan.

We need serious electoral reform. I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon until we unionize with the US which is what we need to do in order to compete with Europe. Either way, it's going to happen. I just want them to hurry it up.

[Slavik44]

This situation certainly underscores the neccessity for democratic reform, unfortunately the powers that be wether Liberal, Conservative, or even NDP are not neccessarily interested in rocking the boat. Parties that are already in the boat, generally like the boat to be stable. They all have a paddle in hand whacking out fish trying to jump into the boat, all the while with a fishing road out the back trying to catch fish, because the only fish parties want are the ones with a hook in their mouths. Furthermore any form of democratic reform should seek to help provide elected members of parliment with some distance from the party, some level of indepence, and not to further entrench political power in the hands of the party. Technically we have a system of compromise, as system that in the majority of cases leaves the minority supporting those elected. Given this unfortunate situation I see a fair compromise being that we allow movement of our political figures between parties.

[Canadian Blue]

I think we desperately need democratic reform in this country. Once again I think Canada should look to Europe in considering new ways on electing politician's. So basically perhaps Proportional Representation, STV, Mixed Parliament, Direct Democracy, etc.

[Who's Doing What?]

Ok, here I go:

.........

I do hope a by election will be immediately forthcoming if this turns out to happen, which I have no doubt will.

Alas Shakey the difference is Stephen Taylor identifies himself. While you launch your attacks safely behind the anonymity of your computer screen. Please get stuff that is even somewhat humourous.

What????? Well I thought it was funny, and hardly an attack. Me thinks you need to go out and have "relations" or something and relax a bit there RB.

"Relations"

Becareful, he just might like the idea of your "shakeyhands".

[geoffrey]

Wonder what happened to having by-elections when MPs decide to cross the floor. Oh, ya, I guess that went down the drain along with a thousand other Conservative election promisses when Emerson crossed. But is it much of a surprise that Liberals switch to the Conservatives and vice-versa given that there is hardly any difference between the two?

That was not an implicate election promise. In fact, quite the opposite. Harper said, in front the world with Peter Mansbridge interviewing, that he supported the concept of floor crossing.

It is required for Westminster style parliaments to function.

[mikedavid00]

I think we desperately need democratic reform in this country. Once again I think Canada should look to Europe in considering new ways on electing politician's. So basically perhaps Proportional Representation, STV, Mixed Parliament, Direct Democracy, etc.

We're not Europe though. We are a work based, North American society with 1 week vacation a year and 5 sick days.

Canada has more in common with the US then we do with Norway, Sweden, or Italy. I feel we should give gov't back to the people and let the provinces govern their own affairs. But that would be more American if anything.

America has the greatest level of democrocy in the world. Also the greatest amount of freedom in the world where you can make your dreams come true.

[August1991]

Thread drift ahead. MikeDavid, you sometimes make the most absurd claims, defeating any credibility your argument may have.

Out of all the Lib's here on the forum, I would say that I am the LEAST self interested of the bunch.

And you're also the MOST humble.

I care about my fellow Canadian and it hurts to see them lose jobs to people who arrive from outside the country. Those people have their dreams come true, the Canadian who has graduated, is undermployed, or who would have loved the opertunity now loses his chance. This upsets me. This is why I beat on this drum.

Immigrants as job-stealers is an old, zero-sum thinking argument. It's also false, as recent unemployment statistics will attest.

Then again, with spelling like yours, it's no wonder that we have to go outside of the country to find suitable employees. You sound like someone who is underemployed because you can't spell or write a grammatically correct sentence and then you blame immigrants for your situation.

----

Khan crossed the floor, Harper got an insurance vote in the House and a blogger first broke the confirmation of the event. Dion gave a press conference hours before to say all was fine. I think that pretty well sums up the story.

[mikedavid00]

Immigrants as job-stealers is an old, zero-sum thinking argument. It's also false, as recent unemployment statistics will attest.

I can easily prove you wrong on this. But it's Friday night, I'm tipsy, and playing my hacked Xbox 360. I have 6 games downloaded already and more on the way.

Again, you are wrong on this. Immigration in OTHER countries don't depress wages becuase they have 'immigration policy'. They don't let educated people with degrees just wander into their countries and look for work. Most will not get the good jobs, but many will at the cost of a Canadian. Myself, my fiance, and my brother have all had this happen to us on more than one occasian and I've whitnessed it several times. When you get 60 people applying for one job, you are going to pick the people with the best paper credentials. Some will hire Canadians, most will go for the credentials.

I choose to invest in my fellow young Canadians and help them live their dreams, not someone who keeps two passports and doesn't speak English. I'm not going to help him get his dreams.

Then again, with spelling like yours, it's no wonder that we have to go outside of the country to find suitable employees.

Yeah. The immigrants from the 3rd world do spell better than me.

You sound like someone who is underemployed because you can't spell or write a grammatically correct sentence and then you blame immigrants for your situation.

I've worked for Department of National Defense (got paid to do nothing. white collar welfare), HP, Microsoft, Time Warner, and worked at Marketing company who handles the promotions for Ford. The 'Save the 1% GST Event" - we did that. The "Friends and family pricing promotion" - we did that. Not only this, I was the one who ran analasys on all those promotions. I can tell you how much Ford makes off each vehicle and how their promotions worked. I can't tell that information because it's confidential. I can say that ford loses money off 2 of it's vehicles. This is very confidential info so I can't say which ones.

When I was at Microsoft, I posted once to a forum about immigration and islam and stuff. This was around the time of the London bombings. It didn't say anything that bad from what I remember. I just said that it's natural with our immigration policy that we will see low quality poeple from these countries enter Canada. (note I proved myself right when they arrested the 18 terrorists).

So this guy took my IP (because I posted it from work computer), linked it back to Microsoft, and then sent an email to my employer. Thank goodness it was a large organization and it could never get traced back to me.

But people will get SO OFFENDED when you dare speak of immigration or immigrants. They are so self hating, self loathing. They want to see Canadians dying on waiting lists. This makes them feel good. They just can't stand to see a young Canadian brother or sister do well in life. They want to see the rest of the world do well and come here to do well for themselves at our expense. This makes them happy inside. Guess you are like this also.

Oh well, I don't understand where this mentality comes from> it's self destructive and self hating. It's unhealthy.

Where did our pride as a people ever go? Or should I say, when?

[jdobbin]

Khan crossed the floor, Harper got an insurance vote in the House and a blogger first broke the confirmation of the event. Dion gave a press conference hours before to say all was fine. I think that pretty well sums up the story.

I think if you check the time stamps, you'll find the Toronto Star broke the story.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I can't believe this hasn't been posted on this thread yet.

http://khaaan.com/

[geoffrey]

I can say that ford loses money off 2 of it's vehicles. This is very confidential info so I can't say which ones.

The Focus obviously... maybe the Fusion... maybe the Ranger.

[August1991]

I can't believe this hasn't been posted on this thread yet.

http://khaaan.com/

I'm trying to figure whether that's William Shatner doing a Stephane Dion imitation now or a Stephen Harper imitation in a few months.

Good link.

[mikedavid00]

I can say that ford loses money off 2 of it's vehicles. This is very confidential info so I can't say which ones.

The Focus obviously... maybe the Fusion... maybe the Ranger.

Nope. The Ranger is the highest profit margin of those vehicles you listed.

There's one vehicle you probably wont get.

But there's one ifyou think a bit more you'll say 'of course, it's...'

[August1991]

I think if you check the time stamps, you'll find the Toronto Star broke the story.

I'll trust you Dobbin but it seems that Stephen Taylor scooped the Toronto Star when it comes to affirming (as opposed to speculating).

In other news, Coyne provided this link:

After Khan and Harper made the joint announcement, Dion released a statement saying it was “with regret” that he received the news.

“As a member of the Liberal Party of Canada, I was never comfortable with Mr. Khan serving as an adviser to a Conservative Prime Minister, as Mr. Khan has done since August of last year,” the statement read.

“As Leader of the Party, I felt it imperative that he decide to which party he would ultimately be loyal. Mr. Khan has now made that decision.”

On Thursday, Dion said publicly that Khan should make a decision about his loyalties. "You can't have a foot in the government and a foot in the opposition," Dion told reporters yesterday.

CanWest

Dion shouldn't be so cavalier about superficial indications of loyalty. And should an MP be loyal to party or the country? Dion seems to have clear membership and loyalty to the Liberal Party. Then again, is Dion French (from France) or Canadian?

[Who's Doing What?]

Then again, is Dion French (from France) or Canadian?

Ahhh if he were really that French he would have already surrendered the next election.

[jdobbin]

I'll trust you Dobbin but it seems that Stephen Taylor scooped the Toronto Star when it comes to affirming (as opposed to speculating).

Dion shouldn't be so cavalier about superficial indications of loyalty. And should an MP be loyal to party or the country? Dion seems to have clear membership and loyalty to the Liberal Party. Then again, is Dion French (from France) or Canadian?

I think it was the Star way when that said that Khan holding a provincial Conservative party membership and a Liberal one federally meant divided loyalties. I think Dion recognized this fact. It is better to deal with type of MP now rather than wait for him to cross the floor in the spring just ahead of an election.

[August1991]

I think it was the Star way when that said that Khan holding a provincial Conservative party membership and a Liberal one federally meant divided loyalties. I think Dion recognized this fact. It is better to deal with type of MP now rather than wait for him to cross the floor in the spring just ahead of an election.

Huh?

Stephen Taylor didn't speculate, he broke the story.

As to Dion:

Liberal leader Stephane Dion yesterday morning before Wajid Khan's defection.

"In politics you hear many things and to me, Mr. Khan is a colleague. He will be part of the caucus; he will work in a positive way. To me, we co-operate with the government, but we are not the government."

Mr. Dion after the defection.

"I was never comfortable with Mr. Khan serving as an advisor to a Conservative Prime Minister, as Mr. Khan has done since August of last year. As leader of the party, I felt it imperative that he decide to which party he would ultimately be loyal. Mr. Khan has now made that decision."

National Post

Come to think of it, didn't Liberal Dion advise Conservative Harper on the wording of the Quebecois as a nation motion?

[Canuck E Stan]

Come to think of it, didn't Liberal Dion advise Conservative Harper on the wording of the Quebecois as a nation motion?

National Post

"He has a lot of passion for Canada and for him Canada is more important than any party," said Khalid Sagheer, president of the Liberal riding association in Mississauga-Streetsville and a friend of the MP since before he immigrated to Canada in 1974. "He will always do anything for Canada regardless of party politics."

Mr. Sagheer, who came from the same town in Pakistan as Mr. Khan, said his old chum was eager to use his expertise on the volatile politics of the Middle East and South Asia to influence Canada's foreign policy, including the mission in Afghanistan.

"He knows the region and he knows the people," said Mr. Sagheer, who will continue to support his friend despite his own uncertainty about whether to follow him across party lines.

As in the last election with the Liberals "On our streets, in Canada" the next election,

will remind Canadians that Dion had warned Khan,saying Khan doesn't deserve to be a Liberal because Khan felt Canada's interest was more important than the Liberal party.

This Khan episode will come to haunt Dion. Khan may lose his seat in Mississauga, but this will resonate with Canadians elsewhere.

John Baird the new environment minister has taken the same approach as Khan. Baird has said he will consult with anyone including the opposition for the good of the Canadian environment.

Somehow I feel this is the approach that Canadians want and will applaude this "Canada first" attitude. We're all tired of the "party" coming first.

[Ricki Bobbi]

This Khan episode will come to haunt Dion. Khan may lose his seat in Mississauga, but this will resonate with Canadians elsewhere.

John Baird the new environment minister has taken the same approach as Khan. Baird has said he will consult with anyone including the opposition for the good of the Canadian environment.

Harper undertook many of the moves to curry favour in Ontario.

Moving Diane Finley into immigration over Albertan Monte Solberg.

Moving John Baird into the high profile Environment file.

Bringing Wajid Khan into caucus.

Moving Helena Guergis into cabinet.

Seems like Harper beleives that his road to a majority goes through Ontario...

Although Khan will probably lose his seat in Mississauga.

[Saturn]

Given that I am not a CPC and don't even know if I will vote CPC I wouldn't say I am supporting Kahn because he flipped to the CPC. My true political Bias is that often cases toeing the party line for nothing more than the sake of the party is often detrimental to Canadians. In that sense I might be supporting Kahn due to my bias against being a party robot.

ROFLMHO!

[jdobbin]

Huh?

Stephen Taylor didn't speculate, he broke the story.

"In politics you hear many things and to me, Mr. Khan is a colleague. He will be part of the caucus; he will work in a positive way. To me, we co-operate with the government, but we are not the government."

Mr. Dion after the defection.

Come to think of it, didn't Liberal Dion advise Conservative Harper on the wording of the Quebecois as a nation motion?

I was commenting on the loyalty thing not Taylor's story.

Dion never held a provincial Conservative membership as Khan did. There were many Ontario Liberals who believed that Khan was already weighing the decision to leave. For many, Khan was developing and carrying out government policy. Dion rightfully said that he needed to know if Khan was a Liberal. He needed to know because at the moment, the Liberals are not government. They are the opposition.

[jdobbin]

This Khan episode will come to haunt Dion. Khan may lose his seat in Mississauga, but this will resonate with Canadians elsewhere.

John Baird the new environment minister has taken the same approach as Khan. Baird has said he will consult with anyone including the opposition for the good of the Canadian environment.

Somehow I feel this is the approach that Canadians want and will applaude this "Canada first" attitude. We're all tired of the "party" coming first.

Who will it resonate with? At the moment, it looks like it was Khan who made the decision to leave rather than Dion pushing him out.

This is so unlike the Turner thing most certainly. He was kicked out of the Conservatives.

So much for the "we're tired of the party approach."

[Ricki Bobbi]

Who will it resonate with? At the moment, it looks like it was Khan who made the decision to leave rather than Dion pushing him out.

This is so unlike the Turner thing most certainly. He was kicked out of the Conservatives.

So much for the "we're tired of the party approach."

It will resonate with South-Asian Canadians....

Along with the reduction of the landing fee and the promotion of Diane Finley to Minister of Immigration this shows Harper's commitment to minority communities in Ontario.

[Canuck E Stan]

Who will it resonate with? At the moment, it looks like it was Khan who made the decision to leave rather than Dion pushing him out.

This is so unlike the Turner thing most certainly. He was kicked out of the Conservatives.

So much for the "we're tired of the party approach."

Like a true Liberal, Dobbin,in denial that the Liberals didn't do this.

Dion did this to himself by telling Khan to leave the special advisor position. Khan's priority was for national interest, first. Dion in his stupidity forced Khan's hand.

It would have looked better for the Liberal party to leave Khan in this role.....it looks more..er.. Canadian.

But of course everyone knows the natural governing party takes priority over all else if you're a member.

Unlike Turner who was bad mouthing the Conservative party in public, Khan did no such thing with the Liberals.

[Fortunata]

Khan was asked to make a decision and he did. It is not surprising to me that he would choose doing something useful and productive versus sitting in the back benches doing a whole lot of nothing. Most people want to be productive.

Did he want to cross over and was looking for an excuse? Maybe or maybe not.

Did he have that in mind when he volunteered for the position in Steve's government in the first place? Maybe or maybe not.

Ultimately it doesn't matter.

I think Khan should have become an independent until the next election but this is not how it works in our parliament. It seems it's every man (or woman) for themselves and the people are not supposed to mind (and they wonder why voters are so cynical and disinterested). Khan's situation is a bit different on the surface than other defections but all defections have some similarities: going to where they are given what they couldn't or wouldn't be given in their old party. Khan may not be getting a cabinet post but he is serving in a substantially different role than an opposition member. Did Steve think this all out before he accepted Khan's initial offer - I have no doubt that he did.

John Baird the new environment minister has taken the same approach as Khan. Baird has said he will consult with anyone including the opposition for the good of the Canadian environment.

Somehow I feel this is the approach that Canadians want and will applaude this "Canada first" attitude. We're all tired of the "party" coming first.

John Baird is paying lip service to Canadians because he's smart and he knows that's what we want to hear. The CPC is getting good at either saying what Canadians want said or selling something making it seem to be what Canadians want. It's a system that the Liberals have used forever. Both parties have become excellent snake oil salesmen.

Reform, real representation can't come too soon for me. Who will make this happen? Not a dam one of them.