Partisanship

[Ricki Bobbi]

Wait, don't tax 'credits' generally reduce taxes payable, rather than taxable income?

Your taxes payable are a percentage your taxable income. So if taxable income goes down your taxes payable go down.

For somebody who makes the full amount of the lowest bracket they pay an extra $27,910 * .0025 = $69.78, so after the employment credit they are (152.50 - 69.78) = $82.72 better off.

I don't understand this step. Where is the -69.78 coming from?

The $27,910 is the full amount of the lowest tax bracket. The Conservatives raised the lowest tax bracket by 1/4%. $69.78 is 1/4% of $27,910.

This material would'nt fully prove your claim even if it proves correct.

Uh yeah. Now you are just being obstinate. What do you mean even if it proves correct? You have the link to the revenue Canada page. There is no denying my numbers are correct.

The claim is that somebody who works is better of with the Conservatives 1/4 point increase to the lowest tax bracket and the employment tax credit than they would have been under the Liberals by $82.72. Never mind the transit credit, textbook credit. On and on and on.

[gc1765]

You are wrong sir.

Here is a link from the Canada Revenue Agency Web site.

2006 tax brackets

Ummmm no. The only reason it is 15.25% for 2006 is because it was 15% before July 1st, and 15.5% after July 1st. The current rate is 15.5%, that is what the Conservatives raised it to. Here is a better link:

The government announced that it will legislate the previously proposed 15% lowest personal tax rate for 2005 and increase the rate to 15.5% as of July 1, 2006. Therefore, the full-year rate for the 2006 taxation year will be 15.25% and for the 2007 and subsequent taxation years, the rate will be 15.5%.

Link

[geoffrey]

I swear coming to the GTA, EVERYONE evades taxes. You go to chinese resturaunts and they take cash only. No interact, no credit card. Just cash. Many resturaunts are like this. Go to any store, hotel, etc. Any immigrant owned place pretty much and they love cash only. All the contractors. everyone.

Growing up in Ottawa you didn't even ask because they would think you're crazy and it would offend them if you dare ask to evade taxes.

It's not just immigrants. The plumber that gives you a cash discount, the convience store... whoever.

The truth of the matter is that VAT's are extremely hard to administer, even harder to control, and even harder than that to prosecute offenders on.

It's an extremely inefficient way to tax people.

With more people being self-employed, we'll see an increase in corporate evasion (small-business). Eventually Canadians will realise the best way to tax is a nice flat percentage on what comes and goes in your bank account as income. Obviously there will always be evasion. But the more complex and intricate the system gets, the more evasion occurs, and the more accountants like me get paid (if only I did tax).

So by all means, vote for the party offering all sorts of credits and allowances, but expect to pay for them while those that don't play by the rules reap the benefits.

[geoffrey]

Ummmm no. The only reason it is 15.25% for 2006 is because it was 15% before July 1st, and 15.5% after July 1st. The current rate is 15.5%, that is what the Conservatives raised it to. Here is a better link:

The government announced that it will legislate the previously proposed 15% lowest personal tax rate for 2005 and increase the rate to 15.5% as of July 1, 2006. Therefore, the full-year rate for the 2006 taxation year will be 15.25% and for the 2007 and subsequent taxation years, the rate will be 15.5%.

Link

qc is absolutely right on this.

The amount of bonuses paid out in the first two quarters I'm sure excedes that in the last.

[Ricki Bobbi]

qc is absolutely right on this.

The amount of bonuses paid out in the first two quarters I'm sure excedes that in the last.

15.25 is the correct effective rate for the 2006 tax year. Which is what my calculations are based on.

You two are correct *if* the Conservatives don't change the rate again in the coming budget.

qc did say he was nitpicking, so it should be ok for me to do the same

[geoffrey]

You two are correct *if* the Conservatives don't change the rate again in the coming budget.

That'd be ugly. If they touch income taxes before GST... hmm... might not be nice.

If they cut both, yippee.

If they cut Federal tax on small-business, even bigger yippee.

There is way too much money going to Ottawa. Personal income tax revenues increased 10%! That means those Federalies are taking more and more of our money. Let's not stand by and watch... the CPC isn't as right-wing as it campaigned on. Put some pressure on the party if your a member and get them to focus on the tax cuts their ideology represents instead of the special interest pandering that they've switched to.

[Ricki Bobbi]

That'd be ugly. If they touch income taxes before GST... hmm... might not be nice.

If they cut both, yippee.

If they cut Federal tax on small-business, even bigger yippee.

There is way too much money going to Ottawa. Personal income tax revenues increased 10%! That means those Federalies are taking more and more of our money. Let's not stand by and watch... the CPC isn't as right-wing as it campaigned on. Put some pressure on the party if your a member and get them to focus on the tax cuts their ideology represents instead of the special interest pandering that they've switched to.

Why wouldn't it be nice?

They promised the second one-point cut to the GST by the end of 2010.

They will get more political traction out of cutting the lowest tax bracket.

You really don't want the Conservatives to be in power, do you?

Put some pressure on the party? wtf is that

Maybe the ideology represents tax cuts to you, but that isn't every party member. Harper has been doing a good job as Prime Minister. Turning to the right only helps the Liberals win the next election.

You gotta decide what's more important to you. The Conservatives truly representing the ideology you think they will or keeping the Liberals out of power. I prefer to keep the Liberals out of power.

[geoffrey]

You really don't want the Conservatives to be in power, do you?

Sure, CPC or some better Liberals, either or, same thing at the end of the day, with different names. Maybe a little less theft in the CPC... an English speaking PM from my riding is nice too.

Put some pressure on the party? wtf is that

Maybe the ideology represents tax cuts to you, but that isn't every party member. Harper has been doing a good job as Prime Minister. Turning to the right only helps the Liberals win the next election.

You gotta decide what's more important to you. The Conservatives truly representing the ideology you think they will or keeping the Liberals out of power. I prefer to keep the Liberals out of power.

At what cost? Are you willing to become Liberal ideologically to prevent them from returning to power?

I voted for Stephen Harper and became a member of his party because I believed he was a small-government advocate... someone that promoted much stronger provinces... and someone that had the sense to realise the economic issues that Canada is facing in areas like small-business and overall availability of capital.

That's not the government I got. Their planned spending increased faster than 3 times inflation in their first year in office. That's absolutely not what I voted for.

So yes, it's fine and dandy to say it's great to keep the Liberals out of power, they are merely a corrupt, power hungry group. But when your primary motivation for actions is to maintain power, aren't you falling to that same vice?

The CPC doesn't need to bend to mainstream Canada, they need to convince them that the ideology of the party is correct. Otherwise we end up with 3 Liberal parties with the results of 3 Liberal parties in power.

[Ricki Bobbi]

At what cost? Are you willing to become Liberal ideologically to prevent them from returning to power?

What is *Liberal ideologically*?

I voted for Stephen Harper and became a member of his party because I believed he was a small-government advocate... someone that promoted much stronger provinces... and someone that had the sense to realise the economic issues that Canada is facing in areas like small-business and overall availability of capital.

Did you pay attention to the campaign? The five priorities weren't all about a "small-government" ideology.

With the one exception of income trust (please let's not go there AGAIN) he has done everything he campaigned on.

That's not the government I got. Their planned spending increased faster than 3 times inflation in their first year in office. That's absolutely not what I voted for.

Why didn't you read their platform?

So yes, it's fine and dandy to say it's great to keep the Liberals out of power, they are merely a corrupt, power hungry group. But when your primary motivation for actions is to maintain power, aren't you falling to that same vice?

I am concerned about actions, not motivation. So far the Conservatives have performed well.

The CPC doesn't need to bend to mainstream Canada, they need to convince them that the ideology of the party is correct

.

That is a surefire recipe for another decade or so of Liberal rule.

[geoffrey]

Why didn't you read their platform?

I believed the *scary* *scary* and voted for it.

Unfortunately he's more socialist than I ever imagined he could be.

They have not performed well. The overall tax burden on Canadians is up, program spending is up, transfers between people are up, what exactly have they performed on? Passing a watered down accountability act after they had to remove the portions they were already violating? Recognising formally that Quebec has superior status to other provinces in the eyes of Ottawa? Handing of people's money back to them if they have little kids?

The gun registry is still there.

We have no environmental plan as of today. Sure it's being revised... but to who's objectives? The NDP?

Wait times guarntee? What's that?

Fiscal imbalance is stronger than ever. Now we are facing a labour imbalance too.

Well congrats on that Harper.

It's funny that the most pro-provincial autonomy PM we've ever had is the one that's pushed me furthest away from being interested in staying in Canada. It's an ungovernable country. You can't win the West, Ontario and Quebec all at once. Right now Harper is Quebec's whipping boy. When that changes, I may regain some respect for him.

Where is the writer of the fire-wall letter, the leader of the NCC? Where is the real Stephen Harper?

I'll likely vote CPC again unfortunately if I vote at all, only because there isn't another option with Dion in charge of the Liberals. I'd like to see if Harper will be the person he was at the NCC if he had a majority. But since that's nearly impossible, what's the point.

I seem to get the same whether I vote Liberal or CPC. The amount of my paycheque is relatively the same, the restictions on business haven't changed (actually, they've increased), there is not going to be a change in my health care in the forseeable future.

So what does it really matter? As long as it's CPC or Liberal my life doesn't change. That's what it's all about to me, real results. I don't see them, and I don't see a promising direction where I will see them in the near future.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I believed the *scary* *scary* and voted for it.

So you are upset because he is doing what he said he would do and not what you thought he *secretly* planned to do?

Passing a watered down accountability act after they had to remove the portions they were already violating?

Uhhh, strange interpretation. They passed what they could given the limits of a minority government.

Recognising formally that Quebec has superior status to other provinces in the eyes of Ottawa?

Superior status is your term. The Liberals recognized Quebec as a distinct society with exactly the same kind of motion. Both were gestures without legal force.

Handing of people's money back to them if they have little kids?

You knew was an election promise.

The gun registry is still there.

The legislation has been tabled. Delaying the election till the fall, or later will give them time to pass it. Again there is no realism in your complaint.

We have no environmental plan as of today. Sure it's being revised... but to who's objectives? The NDP?

Pretty weak that you are pre-judging an environmental plan that hasn't been presented yet.

Wait times guarntee? What's that?

A five-word objection. What's that?

It's funny that the most pro-provincial autonomy PM we've ever had is the one that's pushed me furthest away from being interested in staying in Canada.

You whine and whine about wanting to leave. Just do it. F*ck it isn't that tough to work in another country. Finish undergrad and do a working holiday somewhere. If you really want to make it work you can stay in that country.

Where is the writer of the fire-wall letter, the leader of the NCC? Where is the real Stephen Harper?

You mean where is the Stephen Harper of your wet dreams? He doesn't exist anymore. He realizes the necessity of compromise. That is why he is Prime Minister today. Your idealized Stephen Harper would have lost last January and probably have resigned by now.

I'll likely vote CPC again unfortunately if I vote at all, only because there isn't another option with Dion in charge of the Liberals.

So you are whinging because the party that represents your views the best doesn't represent you 100%? If that's what you want start your own party.

So what does it really matter? As long as it's CPC or Liberal my life doesn't change. That's what it's all about to me, real results. I don't see them, and I don't see a promising direction where I will see them in the near future.

You talk about pressuring the party. Do you volunteer? Do you commit any of your time to trying to change things?

[Saturn]

There is way too much money going to Ottawa. Personal income tax revenues increased 10%! That means those Federalies are taking more and more of our money. Let's not stand by and watch... the CPC isn't as right-wing as it campaigned on. Put some pressure on the party if your a member and get them to focus on the tax cuts their ideology represents instead of the special interest pandering that they've switched to.

Well, you have to pay for all the military equipment and the universal child handout, no?

VAT are inefficient but increase the number of tax credits and watch out - that's even worse.

What's this $1000 work credit anyway? All I can see is the Canada Employment Amount that's the lower of $250 and employment income.

[Saturn]

Passing a watered down accountability act after they had to remove the portions they were already violating?

Uhhh, strange interpretation. They passed what they could given the limits of a minority government.

Enough bullshit RB. They implemented only 30 of their 52 promised accountability measures and a watered down versions of them at that, despite the fact that the opposition pushed them to implement more of the promised measures. "They passed what they could given the limits of a minority government" is a bullshit excuse. The CPC intentionally dropped half their promised measures because it's their turn to abuse the system after all.

http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/ethicdir.html

[Figleaf]

Wait, don't tax 'credits' generally reduce taxes payable, rather than taxable income?

Your taxes payable are a percentage your taxable income. So if taxable income goes down your taxes payable go down.

Yes, I know. I'm asking if you've got the right name for this program because you describe a tax deduction, but you're calling it a credit.

... so after the employment credit they are (152.50 - 69.78) = $82.72 better off... $69.78 is 1/4% of $27,910.

Okay. Who qualifies?

What do you mean even if it proves correct?

I mean I am still probing your claims to assess whether to accept or challenge them.

There is no denying my numbers are correct.

The claim is that somebody who works is better of with the Conservatives 1/4 point increase to the lowest tax bracket and the employment tax credit than they would have been under the Liberals by $82.72.

Somebody who works? Did you specify that before?

[Ricki Bobbi]

... so after the employment credit they are (152.50 - 69.78) = $82.72 better off... $69.78 is 1/4% of $27,910.

Okay. Who qualifies?

Somebody who works? Did you specify that before?

It's the employment tax credit. I felt it was evident that it was given to people who were employed ... but maybe not.

You still haven't done anything to disprove that for the 2006 tax year people who were employed and in the lowest tax bracket were better of under the Conservatives than they would have been under the Liberals.

[geoffrey]

So you are upset because he is doing what he said he would do and not what you thought he *secretly* planned to do?

Upset? No. Disappointed, yes.

Superior status is your term. The Liberals recognized Quebec as a distinct society with exactly the same kind of motion. Both were gestures without legal force.

And both were wrong. Are they ready to extend that to all regions and groups in Canada? Are they willing to offer the cultural protection demands that will certainly follow such a declaration?

You knew was an election promise.

To replace an even more ridiculous Liberal idea, absolutely. But now it looks like we're going to be paying for both ideas in Quebec. Great.

The legislation has been tabled. Delaying the election till the fall, or later will give them time to pass it. Again there is no realism in your complaint.

With what other party's support may I ask?

A five-word objection. What's that?

There hasn't been any changes in health care, that's what that is.

You mean where is the Stephen Harper of your wet dreams? He doesn't exist anymore. He realizes the necessity of compromise. That is why he is Prime Minister today. Your idealized Stephen Harper would have lost last January and probably have resigned by now.

That's nice that he'd have lost. But really, how much of your beliefs are you willing to give up to get elected. Eventually their comes a time when it's just really pointless to even call yourself another party. And even worse... we have no one on the right in the house to keep them in line with their wild spending.

How much more left can the CPC go before we might as well be voting Liberal?

See, this thread is about partisanship, and your illustrating it greatly! Become Liberal policy-wise and ideologically so that everyone will vote for us and not be Liberals. It's not about policy, it's about the CPC getting elected. That's ridiculous.

You talk about pressuring the party. Do you volunteer? Do you commit any of your time to trying to change things?

Volunteer sending out all the BS that supports this about face in ideology? Nah. I'll pass. There isn't an involvement of the grassroots on the policy level, it's a top down party (as all are). I've talked to Harper, Anders (I don't think Anders even gets a word in anymore) and Kenney about various things at various events. Past that, what can I do to influence the policy of the party? I fill out the survey's they send me on various topics.

[Ricki Bobbi]

The legislation has been tabled. Delaying the election till the fall, or later will give them time to pass it. Again there is no realism in your complaint.

With what other party's support may I ask?

Won't know until the deal is announced.

There hasn't been any changes in health care, that's what that is.

Not yet. But they are working on it.

How much more left can the CPC go before we might as well be voting Liberal?

See, this thread is about partisanship, and your illustrating it greatly! Become Liberal policy-wise and ideologically so that everyone will vote for us and not be Liberals. It's not about policy, it's about the CPC getting elected. That's ridiculous.

The GST cut wasn't *Liberal* policy-wise. The choice in childcare program wasn't *Liberal* policy-wise. The justice reforms aren't *Liberal* policy-wise. The accountability act isn't *Liberal* policy-wise. The myriad of other tax measures aren't *Liberal* policy-wise.....

Volunteer sending out all the BS that supports this about face in ideology? Nah. I'll pass. There isn't an involvement of the grassroots on the policy level, it's a top down party (as all are). I've talked to Harper, Anders (I don't think Anders even gets a word in anymore) and Kenney about various things at various events. Past that, what can I do to influence the policy of the party? I fill out the survey's they send me on various topics.

Go to an AGM. Volunteer on your board of directors (even Harper's riding needs volunteers). You would be amazed how quickly somebody who is willing to actually do some work can become involved in various committes. That is if you are actually willing to do some work.

[Figleaf]

...

Cut the sh1t, Ricki.

1. Who qualifies?

2. Did your previous claim specify employed people?

3. Is it a tax credit or a tax deduction?

You still haven't done anything to disprove that for the 2006 tax year people who were employed and in the lowest tax bracket were better of under the Conservatives than they would have been under the Liberals.

I haven't attempted that yet. As I mentioned, I'm probing your claims to determine whether I should agree with you.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Cut the sh1t, Ricki.

Grow up.

1. Who qualifies?

People who are employed.

2. Did your previous claim specify employed people?

Yes. Please refer to post #140 of this thread.

3. Is it a tax credit or a tax deduction?

It is a credit.

I haven't attempted that yet. As I mentioned, I'm probing your claims to determine whether I should agree with you.

I have previously answered all of your questions from your most recent post. So it looks like your probing should be finished. Unless you need to swear a little more.

[Who's Doing What?]

The GST cut wasn't *Liberal* policy-wise.

No it was *For the Wealthy* policy-wise.

The choice in childcare program wasn't *Liberal* policy-wise.

No it was *Buying Some Votes* policy-wise.

The justice reforms aren't *Liberal* policy-wise.

Not hard to be non-Liberal in that area.

The accountability act isn't *Liberal* policy-wise.

Their lack of following their own rules/rhetoric appears pretty *Liberal* to me.

The myriad of other tax measures aren't *Liberal* policy-wise.....

Would that be the raising of taxes, or income trusts....

[Ricki Bobbi]

No it was *For the Wealthy* policy-wise.

How is a cut which helps the poorest Canadian keep a higher percentage of their income than any other group for the wealthy?

Their lack of following their own rules/rhetoric appears pretty *Liberal* to me.

Your outright lying and fabrication appears pretty *Liberal* to me.

Would that be the raising of taxes, or income trusts....

Already stated. The former was a mistake that will be corrected soon. The latter, well it was in the best interest of the country.

[mikedavid00]

I seem to get the same whether I vote Liberal or CPC. The amount of my paycheque is relatively the same, the restictions on business haven't changed (actually, they've increased), there is not going to be a change in my health care in the forseeable future.

Keep in mind they are in a minority position and are trying to win a majority. They have also been in power for 11 months. They can't fix all our problems over night with a minority gov't. Very tough, unpopluar actions will have to take place for them to fix our country.

These actions they cannot campaign on.

So what does it really matter? As long as it's CPC or Liberal my life doesn't change.

It could change for a nosedive down if Dion and his lunatics get in power. Martina and Chretien were very fiscally conservative. I don't see anything of the like with any of the top Libearls at this point in time.

That's what it's all about to me, real results. I don't see them, and I don't see a promising direction where I will see them in the near future.

They can't promise a new direction because they will scare voters off and the CBC will see to that. Any environmental plan will be an 'Alberta tax' and this is what Dion is looking for. New taxes in Alberta will mean high cost for consumers and possibly downsizing resulting in loss of jobs.

Harper is in the mode of trying to make 'everyone happy'. When he wins a majority i'm sure they old reform core values will come out.

[Figleaf]

Cut the sh1t, Ricki.

Grow up.

You're so ... precious.

1. Who qualifies?

People who are employed.

How defined? And is it $1000 for everyone who qualifies?

3. Is it a tax credit or a tax deduction?

It is a credit.

Yet your description is of a deduction. What gives?

I have previously answered all of your questions from your most recent post. So it looks like your probing should be finished. Unless you need to swear a little more.

I decide when my probing is finished. Sorry to your tender ears.

[Who's Doing What?]

How is a cut which helps the poorest Canadian keep a higher percentage of their income than any other group for the wealthy?

Hmm who beifits more? The poor SOB who saves $50 on a used Chevy, or the rich guy who saves $4000 on his new Bentley?

Pretty easy to see from here.

Your outright lying and fabrication appears pretty *Liberal* to me.

Lying? How many days were they in power before they brought Emerson over? Something they were dead against and freaked on Stronach for.

Just once I would like for you to prove I'm lying. You are the one pulls statements out of his ass like they were facts.

Remember the Torries Fess up thread, when talking about the legal costs to elections Canada you said "Guaranteed it cost less than a million dollars". Just how the hell would you know?. You had nothing to back up your claim. No evidence. Just just BS of the top of your head. Yet you have the audacity to call me the Liar? Give your head a shake.

[Ricki Bobbi]

How defined? And is it $1000 for everyone who qualifies?

Anyone who receives a T4. Any employment income. To *qualify* for the full $1,000 you have to make $1,000 in a year.

Yet your description is of a deduction. What gives?

That was the original description. I corrected my error. You are just being contrary and baiting. What gives?

I decide when my probing is finished. Sorry to your tender ears.

And I have decided to quit responding to your childish questions. Your trolling should end. It has been reported to Greg.

If you come up with an intelligent question that is aimed at furthering debate I'll reply. If you reply just to troll I'll ignore you. So I guess I have decided that your probing has ended.