Tories fess up

Ricki Bobbi · December 29, 2006

If it's such a secretive organization how do you know how many people it is made up of? And the size of their budget?

Because only 4 people are known/suspected to be part of it - it could of course be more than 4 but that's how many the public is aware of. The size of their budget can be estimated by the amount of their spending - again it could be bigger than we know because we cannot track all their spending. It is difficult to know the facts about organizations that keep everything secret.

You could have more simply responded to my questions by saying you don't know. Which you clearly don't.

Hasn't this secretive organization connection come up in previous elections? Oh that's right. The claims were unfounded then and they still are now.

Argus · December 29, 2006

I'm going to presume that English is a second or third language for you in that you apparently don't understand what the word "scamming" means. I would suggest you find someone to explain the language to you.

Not sure why, all of a sudden, you're trying to deflect topic away from the CPC's scams and onto me,

Oh, it's because your evident lack of language skills has you using the word "scam" without any apparent idea what it means.

Nor am I sure what your intent is with saying that English is a 2nd or 3rd language for me. As my use of "attempted scamming" is quite correct. Though your presumption is not.
Scam = Main Entry: 1scam

Pronunciation: 'skam

Function: noun

Etymology: origin unknown

: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

Which has no relevance to what they did, which was quite open and above board. And the only way you even knew they did it is because they told you they did.

Argus · December 29, 2006

The Liberals, which I am not, did not have to try to bring the CPC down to their level, they , the CPC, did that all by themselves.

You believe this issue with Elections Canada is at the same *level* as Adscam?

Is it difficult living in a world that is totally black and white?

Actually seeing as how it is 2 million more than adscam it is actually more serious,

Given the adscam involved the Liberals stealing money from the taxpayer, and this does not even involve a suggestion the Tories stole money I find your equating the two to be laughable.

the fact that the CPC tried to cover it,

By informing everyone they did it, you mean?

There is no gray area when it comes to political party corruption,

Clearly from your perspective, it is black and white. Ie, if the Tories forget to dot an "i" it is horrifying corruption, while if the Liberals or NDP steal millions of dollars - well, that's just not important.

You really need to get ahold of a dictionary and look up the common usage of words like "corruption" and "Scam" because your posts sound like the inane bleatings of a rabid ideologue from the far left.

Argus · December 29, 2006

A five year old letter written by Stephen Harper as a private citizen.

Wow, you guys really are stretching to make an issue out of this one.

Not any private citizen but the president of the NCC, a closed-door organization whose primary purpose was to sue Canada and remove limitations placed on private interests in the funding of political campaigns. He spent years trying to establish the legality of government for sale.

Actually, the primary purpose of the NCC was to monitor government waste, mismanagement and misspending. That's why the Liberals pushed to ban them from speaking during elections.

It is an odd, topsy-turvy thing where a group which wants to speak its opinion is called anti-democratic, and those who crush freedom of speech are called democrats.

Argus · December 29, 2006

We are Canada’s largest non-partisan organization for the defence and promotion of free enterprise, free speech and government that is accountable to its taxpayers.

Nothing wrong with that....

The Left despise and fear them because of that "free enterprise" bit, and because it's suspected some of their membership might (gasp!) have money!

Saturn · December 29, 2006

Clearly from your perspective, it is black and white. Ie, if the Tories forget to dot an "i" it is horrifying corruption, while if the Liberals or NDP steal millions of dollars - well, that's just not important.
You really need to get ahold of a dictionary and look up the common usage of words like "corruption" and "Scam" because your posts sound like the inane bleatings of a rabid ideologue from the far left.

In the Conservative dictionary the definition of "scam" is the Liberals breaking the law and the definition of "accountability" is the Conservatives breaking the law. In my dictionary this is the definition of "double standard" and "hypocrisy".

Ricki Bobbi · December 29, 2006

In the Conservative dictionary the definition of "scam" is the Liberals breaking the law

No the definition of scam would be stealing taxpayer money and giving it to party operatives. Any party.

Catchme · December 30, 2006

Clearly from your perspective, it is black and white. Ie, if the Tories forget to dot an "i" it is horrifying corruption, while if the Liberals or NDP steal millions of dollars - well, that's just not important.

You really need to get ahold of a dictionary and look up the common usage of words like "corruption" and "Scam" because your posts sound like the inane bleatings of a rabid ideologue from the far left.

In the Conservative dictionary the definition of "scam" is the Liberals breaking the law and the definition of "accountability" is the Conservatives breaking the law. In my dictionary this is the definition of "double standard" and "hypocrisy".

One really does notice when the CPC base are upset, the personal attacks come out full force. :blink:

You are quite correct in your assesment saturn, just because they they told everyone they were trying to scam their donations they think somehow they are not scamming? And here they are even telling a lie with insisting they told so they couldn't have been scammming. That is hilarious, for a year they insisted they did nothing wrong, now of course they have had to admit to it finally. Even though they are trying hard not too.

It won't wash with the Canadian electorate, we expected better and deserve better than, CPC=Liberal and Liberal=CPC with corruption running front and centre with both of em.

madmax · December 30, 2006

It won't wash with the Canadian electorate, we expected better and deserve better than, CPC=Liberal and Liberal=CPC with corruption running front and centre with both of em.

I still don't think it will mean a hill of beans difference come election time.

And I am not surprised that the CPC is acting like Liberals. I am only surprised at how fast it started to happen.

I did realize that this isn't the party of Preston Manning, or someone else with the integrity of Ed Broadbent.

But alot has come loose pretty quick, and these apologists, rather than just saying, yeah, we got caught, and then it would go away, continue to dig deeper.

Catchme · December 30, 2006

It won't wash with the Canadian electorate, we expected better and deserve better than, CPC=Liberal and Liberal=CPC with corruption running front and centre with both of em.

I still don't think it will mean a hill of beans difference come election time.

And I am not surprised that the CPC is acting like Liberals. I am only surprised at how fast it started to happen.

I did realize that this isn't the party of Preston Manning, or someone else with the integrity of Ed Broadbent.

But alot has come loose pretty quick, and these apologists, rather than just saying, yeah, we got caught, and then it would go away, continue to dig deeper.

Of course it will, those who were sick of government corruption voted CPC, now that they see there is no difference in corruption between the 2, most they will go back to the Liberals, it seems that some think the Liberals are the lesser of 2 evils if both are corrupt. AKA Brian Mulroney years and defeat. We will see it play out in close ridings, and in PQ, for sure.

This will become an issue once the holidays areover and parliament sits, the CPC thought they could escape scrutiny by doing the fessing up just before Christmas, and figured people wouldn't notice and that it would be blown over by January. Boy are they wrong.

Saturn · December 30, 2006

I still don't think it will mean a hill of beans difference come election time.
And I am not surprised that the CPC is acting like Liberals. I am only surprised at how fast it started to happen.

I did realize that this isn't the party of Preston Manning, or someone else with the integrity of Ed Broadbent.

But alot has come loose pretty quick, and these apologists, rather than just saying, yeah, we got caught, and then it would go away, continue to dig deeper.

None of this was unexpected but I have to admit that I am quite shocked by the speed with which the CPC adopted the worst of its two predecessor parties - the socially conservative ideology of the Reform and the elitism and corruption of the PC - and dumped the best of its predecessors - the populism of Reform and the consensus building and environmental policies of the PC.

Ricki Bobbi · December 30, 2006

Of course it will, those who were sick of government corruption voted CPC, now that they see there is no difference in corruption between the 2, most they will go back to the Liberals, it seems that some think the Liberals are the lesser of 2 evils if both are corrupt.

catchme did you vote Conservative in January and are now going to vote Liberal because of the Elections Act mixup?

Did anybody who is making an issue of this?

All the attacks over the issue appear to be coming from partisans who would never vote Conservative.

Can anybody on the board honestly say they voted Conservative in January but won't in the next election because of this issue?

Catchme · December 30, 2006

Of course it will, those who were sick of government corruption voted CPC, now that they see there is no difference in corruption between the 2, most they will go back to the Liberals, it seems that some think the Liberals are the lesser of 2 evils if both are corrupt.

catchme did you vote Conservative in January and are now going to vote Liberal because of the Elections Act mixup?

Did anybody who is making an issue of this?

All the attacks over the issue appear to be coming from partisans who would never vote Conservative.

Can anybody on the board honestly say they voted Conservative in January but won't in the next election because of this issue?

Now that was a nice strawman that you set up and kicked down.

Nor does downplaying it to a elections act mix up work. 3.5 million dollars is not a mix up.

Ricki Bobbi · December 30, 2006

Now that was a nice strawman that you set up and kicked down.
Nor does downplaying it to a elections act mix up work. 3.5 million dollars is not a mix up.

So you are admittng that your *knowledge* about people who voted Conservative on the basis of corruption and their future voting intentions was pulled out of thin air?

:lol:

Why can't 3.5 million dollars be a mix up?

Seemed like a fair question if your assetion was correct.

What the hell is a strawman anyways?

jbg · December 30, 2006

The CPC may not be Boy Scouts but they're hardly alone in breaking the Election Law. Any guess on what the Liberal/French crew is up to on any given day?

Who's Doing What? · December 30, 2006

Now that was a nice strawman that you set up and kicked down.
Nor does downplaying it to a elections act mix up work. 3.5 million dollars is not a mix up.

So you are admittng that your *knowledge* about people who voted Conservative on the basis of corruption and their future voting intentions was pulled out of thin air?

Why can't 3.5 million dollars be a mix up?

Seemed like a fair question if your assetion was correct.

What the hell is a strawman anyways?

Why don't you just give it up already. The Conservatives tried to get away with hiding 3.5 million dollars and got caught.

It might be considered a "mix up" if it were one thing that was done wrong,(like a misplaced decimal point) and it was wrong to the tune of 3.5 million. However the CPC used 4 different ways to disguise the money coming into the party. That is not a "mix up".

Who's Doing What? · December 30, 2006

The CPC may not be Boy Scouts but they're hardly alone in breaking the Election Law. Any guess on what the Liberal/French crew is up to on any given day?

This is just it. There really is no difference between the two parties, except one of them just ran on an election platform of accoutnability and ethics.

jdobbin · December 30, 2006

The CPC may not be Boy Scouts but they're hardly alone in breaking the Election Law. Any guess on what the Liberal/French crew is up to on any given day?

The Liberals, NDP and Bloq didn't violate the election law in this past election. You thought they did?

Ricki Bobbi · December 30, 2006

The Liberals, NDP and Bloq didn't violate the election law in this past election. You thought they did?

Neither did the Conservatives? The story that started this thread was about 2005 events.

Catchme · December 30, 2006

The CPC may not be Boy Scouts but they're hardly alone in breaking the Election Law. Any guess on what the Liberal/French crew is up to on any given day?

This is just it. There really is no difference between the two parties, except one of them just ran on an election platform of accoutnability and ethics.

Well, you're correct the CPC did run on accountability and ethics, how people bought into that in the first place was unknown to me though, leopards do not change spots., and all.

However, those that try to deflect away from their party's corrupt actions by saying who knows what the Liberal/french crew are up to, should not be digging themselves a deeper hole.

You can bet your boots, if the CPC thought any other party was doing anything illegal they would be screaming bloody murder. The fact they are not tells us they be the only ones currently breaking the law and attempting to scam millions.

Ricki Bobbi · December 30, 2006

You can bet your boots, if the CPC thought any other party was doing anything illegal they would be screaming bloody murder. The fact they are not tells us they be the only ones currently breaking the law and attempting to scam millions.

Scam millions?

Maybe, just maybe, the Conservtives are too busy running competent Government to scream bloody murder.

No explanation for your *strawman* analogy?

Still haven't heard from anybody who voted for the Conservatives in January but not now because of this elections act issue. Like you said existed... :lol:

Catchme · December 30, 2006

You can bet your boots, if the CPC thought any other party was doing anything illegal they would be screaming bloody murder. The fact they are not tells us they be the only ones currently breaking the law and attempting to scam millions.

Scam millions?

Maybe, just maybe, the Conservtives are too busy running competent Government to scream bloody murder.

No explanation for your *strawman* analogy?

Still haven't heard from anybody who voted for the Conservatives in January but not now because of this elections act issue. Like you said existed...

Um, that would be a big NO on running a competent government! Thank God they won't be around long enough to do any more damage.

You just indicated your strawman argument yet again, saying that anyone who voted CPC in January, please stand now and say you won't be voting for them is a strawman position that you kicked down when you say no one has said they won't here.

Ricki Bobbi · December 30, 2006

You just indicated your strawman argument yet again, saying that anyone who voted CPC in January, please stand now and say you won't be voting for them is a strawman position that you kicked down when you say no one has said they won't here.

Just to refresh your memory.

You said:

Of course it will, those who were sick of government corruption voted CPC, now that they see there is no difference in corruption between the 2, most they will go back to the Liberals,

so, who are these *people* "who were sick of government corruption voted CPC ... will go back to the Liberals"? Or were you just making them up?

There is no logical fallacy in my question, ergo there is no strawman.

hiti · December 30, 2006

All those donors who went to the Con convention did not get a receipt and therefore were unable to claim their donation on their tax returns. So stealing from conservative donors is okay?

They also encouraged outside observers - generally lobbyists and representatives of professional groups, to use their corporate credit cards to pay the $750 observer fee. These payments constitute corporate donations, which are strictly prohibited.

Cons have to move out of their glass houses. Every piece of mud they have slung at liberals and the Liberal Party is now sticking to themselves.

Who knew that all the times Steve was pounding his chest, covering himself in ashes, preaching his accountability act, and vilifying liberals and the Liberal Party, he and his Con Party were breaking the Elections Canada Act and defrauding their party donors of millions, plus taking corporate donations under the table.