Maher Arrar

[JMH]

Lets see: A man that knowingly associated with "people of interest" to the FBI, CIA, CSIS, MI5, MI6 etc. is suing our government for 36 million dollars because he was conducting buisness in regions that no Canadian (with a functional cerebral cortex) would dare to enter in a post 9/11 world.

Furthermore, his buisness concerned high-tech computer software that has yet to be explained to the Canadian public concerning it's use or potential applications. Mr. Arrar claimed that he was tortured in Syria although the Canadian public has yet to be furnished with any evidence that this actually occured (no admition from the Syrian government, video, no transcripts of interogation, no physical evidence/ Mr. Arrar is obviously quite fit in order to maintain his busy schedual etc.).

Here we have a disgraceful attempt at a money grab.

Mr. Arrar: Lets give him the bennefit of doubt for a moment: as a Canadian citizen, it was completely idiotic to enter the countries that he did, conduct the buisness that he did and furthermore, behave the way he did during a time of obvious tensions between western states and the muslem world. He is culpable for his actions in this respect- given that he did this on his own accord.

In addition, Mr. Arrar is of Syrian decent. To conduct himself in this way, durring this period amounts to a level of stupidity reserved for imbisiles, and given his level of education I'm afraid that he is now completely culpable for his own actions and should consider himself very lucky to be alive and living in a beutiful country such as Canada. Greed and stupidity is not deserving of reward..........period.

Perhaps he has learned a valuable lesson.

[Who's Doing What?]

Greed and stupidity is not deserving of reward..........period.

True... but they do seem to be two of the qualifications needed to be in politics. Perhaps he has a future after all.

[mikedavid00]

should consider himself very lucky to be alive and living in a beutiful country such as Canada.

A lot of people here have exhaustivly discussed Arar's case and learned many things about him that don't make him look like a choir boy.

Yes some will hold Arar up on a pedestal and make him a hero that should come before our troops.

What do I say?

Detain his wife, children, and all family members, and immediately deport him back home. Then ban him from stepping on Canadian soil.

[Who's Doing What?]

should consider himself very lucky to be alive and living in a beutiful country such as Canada.

A lot of people here have exhaustedly discussed Arar's case and learned many things about him that don't make him look like a choir boy.

Yes some will hold Arar up on a pedestal and make him a hero that should come before or troops.

What do I say?

Detain his wife, children, and all family members, and immediately deport him back home. Then ban him from stepping on Canadian soil.

So...do we break out the bed sheets before or after he is on the plane?

[JMH]

Well, I certainly appreciate the consensus on this matter. That being said ,and in all fairness, Mr. Arrar is welcome to live in this country in my books. His frivilous lawsuit and absurdly political wife, deserve to feel the collective condemnation of a people that try to trust and try to be tollerant..........until the confidance is abused and spat upon. I wish them luck in the "new world".

[betsy]

I have to admit that the only knowledge I have about this case came from the Canadian media at the height of the Zaccardeli inquiry.

With The USA firm stance on keeping him on that blacklist....I'm beginning to have serious doubts whteher Arar is truly innocent in all these. We are after all living in a society wherein apologists and political correctness utmostly rule...and we have a minority government being pressured no doubt to appease and satisfy what rules.

What JMH had pointed out only makes me doubt Arar's innocence all the more. It makes sense since this Arar does not strike me as an imbecile....but rather quite an intellgent guy.

MAYBE, what may have acquitted him was not the fact that he is proven innocent.....but by the simple reason there is no other ample evidence other than the circumstantial kinds. You know, like knowing somebody did the murder but you can't find the body and the smoking gun.

[madmax]

Lets see: A man that knowingly associated with "people of interest" to the FBI, CIA, CSIS, MI5, MI6 etc. is suing our government for 36 million dollars because he was conducting buisness in regions that no Canadian

I read alot of stuff with regards to secret service information of various countries.

Do you have an article that shows that these information services were specifically interested in Mahar Arrar prior to the RCMP creating an aura of suspicion. I haven't been able to come across anything in their literature or articles, prior to his deportation from the US, and prior to the information given to these services by the RCMP.

As for people of interest, Pierre Trudeau and Tommy Douglas have been people of interest for these organizations.

These agencies gather information. That is there job.

I see hedging on Harper and Rice that Arar's situation just might change.

[Shakeyhands]

ok so he knows people, big deal, I know people too and I can't say for sure that they aren't oinvoilved in unscrupulous activities....

We were complicite in having Arar sent to a country where we knew he would be tortured, perhaps killed, on the word of the Americans. We did this while there was no evidence suggesting that it was necessary. He was a citizen of this country. I dunno, seems like a solid case to me. What if you were treated like this?

AND, I would still like to hear what the US has on him, my guess is that they are just covering their butts too. As a partner in NORAD and other treaties, if I was Harper/McKay I would demand to have access to their intel on him so that we could make a fully informed decision. Allies indeed, only when it benefits them.

[mikedavid00]

Well, I certainly appreciate the consensus on this matter. That being said ,and in all fairness, Mr. Arrar is welcome to live in this country in my books.

Why shoudl we grant a stay from someone who has used hundreds of thousands of social services from the tax payers, illegally got himself into the country as a refugee, when he was a refugee he kept going back to Syria.

He's a liar, a tax vacuum, and he needs to leave immediately. He is the symptom of what is wrong with our country.

And as a proud Canadian, you should back this. Or do some reading into arar. He's trash fit for the gutter imo.

[madmax]

And as a proud Canadian, you should back this. Or do some reading into arar. He's trash fit for the gutter imo.

Seems like a bad dude, since Prime Minister Harper is going to bat for him. While I question many things Harper does, being a "proud" Canadian isn't one of them.

During a telephone conversation on October 6, 2006, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper notifed U.S. President George W. Bush that Canada intended to lodge a formal protest over U.S. treatment of Arar. The notification was later followed by a letter of protest sent from Canadian Minister of Foreign Affairs Peter MacKay to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.[31] Harper told reporters that Canada wants "the United States government [to] come clean with its version of events, to acknowledge... the deficiencies and inappropriate conduct that occurred in this case, particularly vis-à-vis its relationship with the Canadian government." In particular, Canada wants United States assurances, said Harper, that "these kinds of incidents will not be repeated in the future."

So Mike, you are unemployed, have turned down work offered in this forum, and have a computer background. Lets Compare Mr. Arar before his holiday in Syria courtesy of the "intelligence gathering network".

Maher Arar, born in Syria, moved to Canada with his parents at the age of 17 in 1988 to avoid mandatory military service. In 1991, Arar obtained Canadian citizenship.Arar earned a bachelor's degree in computer engineering from McGill University and a master's degree in telecommunications from the Institut national de la recherche scientifique (a branch of the Université du Québec) in Montreal. While studying at McGill University, Arar met Monia Mazigh. Arar and Mazigh married in 1994.In December 1997, Arar moved with his family to Ottawa from Montreal. In 1999, Arar moved again to Boston to do contract work for The MathWorks Inc., requiring a considerable amount of travel within the United States.

In 2001, Arar returned to Ottawa to start his own consulting company, Simcomms Inc.

hmm, would appear like an intelligent ambitious immigrant. Unlike a lazy, demanding born and raised Canadian.

Lets look at this trash further.....

The final report, released on September 18, 2006, categorically states that there is no evidence linking Arar to terrorist activity, that the RCMP passed false information on to US authorities, and that the RCMP leaked untrue information to damage his reputation. The report also confirms that he was tortured while in Syria.4]

Wow his wife is lazy too.

She was born and raised in Tunisia and emigrated to Canada in 1991, at the age of 21. Mazigh has a PhD in financial economics from McGill University and speaks Arabic, English and French fluently. In 2000, she started working for the University of Ottawa as a research assistant and later as a French-language instructor. Until 2002, her goal was to become a professor instead of a politician.

Mike I have done some reading. The only trash I read is to some ranting unsubstantiated internet WebRAGS.

The evidence would also suggest that these were ambitious hard working people trying to make it in North America.

I have read that your lazy butt has nothing better to do then whine and complain on internet forums. You aren't working are you? And yet I have seen jobs offered your way, while on this forum.

mikedavid00 Dec 26 2006, 01:21 PM Post #86

The only thing that would save us is maybe if I got employed and got a healthcare plan. Then I wouldn't have to wait.

But you question Arars ability to work because of the strain of the imprisonment and torture, yet you have lots of excuses to turn down jobs.

Really Mike, you rants on Arar are unfounded and your attacks are possibly Slanderous. As you can read above, the RCMP leaked UNTRUE information to damage his reputation. Perhaps you are a dupe or have been duped by this evidence of fabrication.

But you have provided no new evidence and there isn't going to be any. Hearsay from "Syrian" friends in Ottawa, whom discredit Arar, is not evidence, but possible Syrians running for cover and distancing themselves as far as possible from any fellow Syrian, so they don't get caught up in the same web of lies.

All the evidence, the real evidence in this case, currently suggests you are full of it. There are always a small percentage of conspiracy theoriests and unbelievers, like 9/11 theorists who fabricate lots of evidence for their own attention.

I am a proud Canadian.

Hope you find a job soon.

edit note, the quote feature is not working in this post. If you have suggestions in fixing where there is a mistake, let me know and I will try to edit this properly.

[betsy]

edit note, the quote feature is not working in this post. If you have suggestions in fixing where there is a mistake, let me know and I will try to edit this properly.

I had the same problem too until someone told me about the "ending quote tags." The quote at the end of a quoted statement should have a slash.

I think your statement decribing Arar's wife is the one that don't have the proper ending quote.

She was born and raised in Tunisia and emigrated to Canada in 1991, at the age of 21. Mazigh has a PhD in financial economics from McGill University and speaks Arabic, English and French fluently. In 2000, she started working for the University of Ottawa as a research assistant and later as a French-language instructor. Until 2002, her goal was to become a professor instead of a politician.

[betsy]

The final report, released on September 18, 2006, categorically states that there is no evidence linking Arar to terrorist activity, that the RCMP passed false information on to US authorities, and that the RCMP leaked untrue information to damage his reputation. The report also confirms that he was tortured while in Syria.

If there is no evidence linking Arar to terrorist activity....and that the RCMP had passed false information on to the US authorities, and had leaked untrue information (perhaps in an effort to cover up the mess they made)...then Arar, regardless of his dual citizenship or alleged stupidity, is unquestionably the victim.

There is serious concern about the way the RCMP....or any law enforcement (which may include the USA if they cannot present anything to substantiate their claims)...had handled this affair.

This is scary, not only to immigrants....but to everyone. Your life suddenly turned upside down. Imagine being secretly shuttled to another country...stuff you only see in espionage movies!

Although we need to be on heightened state of alertness due to national security....we shouldn't be lax either about losing rights this way.

Another thing I want to know though: was the inquiry only about the role of the RCMP? Was there an inquiry focused on Arar himself?

Why shoudl we grant a stay from someone who has used hundreds of thousands of social services from the tax payers, illegally got himself into the country as a refugee, when he was a refugee he kept going back to Syria.

He's a liar, a tax vacuum, and he needs to leave immediately. He is the symptom of what is wrong with our country.

And as a proud Canadian, you should back this. Or do some reading into arar. He's trash fit for the gutter imo.

Mike, do you have any official source to substantiate your claims? As I have said, I do not know much about this, and I've not been following it avidly either. Speculations cannot be taken in as proof of his guilt.

Further more, if damaging speculations continue despite the inquiry's assertion that there is no evidence of guilt...it only confirms what Arar had been saying: his reputation is damaged beyond repair. There will always be doubts about him. And he had a career!

[madmax]

I had the same problem too until someone told me about the "ending quote tags." The quote at the end of a quoted statement should have a slash.

I think your statement decribing Arar's wife is the one that don't have the proper ending quote.

[

Thanks Betsy, that was the problem. I appreciate your help

[Shakeyhands]

Ok I stand corrected as well, I thought the information came from the US not the RCMP. Seems to me that the Americans need to inform their counterparts here in Canada of the evidence that justifies leaving Arar on the NFL. Otherwise he should be apologized to AND compensated by both governments.

and MikeDavid000...ouch buddy. pwnd. rilly.

[Leafless]

Ok I stand corrected as well, I thought the information came from the US not the RCMP. Seems to me that the Americans need to inform their counterparts here in Canada of the evidence that justifies leaving Arar on the NFL. Otherwise he should be apologized to AND compensated by both governments.

I really don't know how any authority can have current accurate information on every suspected terrorist in Canada at any given time on a moments notice.

Does anyone really know anything about the information given to the U.S. concerning the secret inquiry and Arar as a suspect terrorist at the time?

If not I really don't know how anyone can disprove what the R.C.M.P did was illegal outside of what came out of the secretive inquiry as there are many factors involved and the information supplied to the U.S. was only one of them.

[betsy]

Anyway, does anybody have reliable info about what is it exactly that made the RCMP be suspicious of Arar?

[Saturn]

Anyway, does anybody have reliable info about what is it exactly that made the RCMP be suspicious of Arar?

You can read it all here > http://www.ararcommission.ca/

and here > http://www.maherarar.ca/

My understanding is that the RCMP was watching Abdullah Almaki and became suspicious of Arar when Arar had a coffee and a 20 minute walk with Almaki one day. Apparently Arar worked with Abdullah's brother at a couple of high-tech firms in Ottawa and Arar had met Abdullah on several occasions (through his brother). Coincidentally Almaki also ended up being tortured in a Syrian jail for 2 years.

The inquiry found that the RCMP had asked the Americans to watch out for Arar and his wife as they were suspected "terrorists". IMO that would be enough for the Americans to become suspicious but I don't expect to hear anything from the Americans and I don't expect them to change their story until all investigation on this and related cases is over (give it 5-10 years).

[mikedavid00]

hmm, would appear like an intelligent ambitious immigrant.

As I said, there are people that hold this guy as a hero and a new standard in Canadian society.

[JMH]

Anyway, does anybody have reliable info about what is it exactly that made the RCMP be suspicious of Arar?

You can read it all here > http://www.ararcommission.ca/

and here > http://www.maherarar.ca/

My understanding is that the RCMP was watching Abdullah Almaki and became suspicious of Arar when Arar had a coffee and a 20 minute walk with Almaki one day. Apparently Arar worked with Abdullah's brother at a couple of high-tech firms in Ottawa and Arar had met Abdullah on several occasions (through his brother). Coincidentally Almaki also ended up being tortured in a Syrian jail for 2 years.

The inquiry found that the RCMP had asked the Americans to watch out for Arar and his wife as they were suspected "terrorists". IMO that would be enough for the Americans to become suspicious but I don't expect to hear anything from the Americans and I don't expect them to change their story until all investigation on this and related cases is over (give it 5-10 years).

Any information concerning Arar that is/was available to the media, would only contain facts that are deemed irrelavant to national/international security issues. Mr. Arar or perhaps more importantly, his circle of "aquaintences" are undoubtably under heavy surveylance and will remain so. The various security agencies throughout the western world are working in concert to keep tabs on many thousands of people. They DO NOT target individuals "without cause"; it's inefficient and time consuming. Mr. Arars' name was not pulled out of a hat.

Again , as I previously stated, if Mr. Arar is innocent , then he is at least culpable for his own stupidity and greed. This should not be rewarded to the tune of $36 million, in my oppinion.

[betsy]

Again , as I previously stated, if Mr. Arar is innocent , then he is at least culpable for his own stupidity and greed. This should not be rewarded to the tune of $36 million, in my oppinion.

That amount is too much. The lawyer for Arar said that "you couldn't place a price tag on what he'd gone through." I'd say, it's the same as those innocents who had gone to prison and served time over crimes they didn't commit. No one received that kind of an amount, did they? One journalist say he'll be surprised if he gets over 10 million.

[JMH]

Again , as I previously stated, if Mr. Arar is innocent , then he is at least culpable for his own stupidity and greed. This should not be rewarded to the tune of $36 million, in my oppinion.

That amount is too much. The lawyer for Arar said that "you couldn't place a price tag on what he'd gone through." I'd say, it's the same as those innocents who had gone to prison and served time over crimes they didn't commit. No one received that kind of an amount, did they? One journalist say he'll be surprised if he gets over 10 million.

Thank you. Finally someone has "clued in" to my point. David Milgard recieved a pittance in comparison to the demands of Mr. Arar and his family. He was found not-guilty (DNA) after spending an unspeakable period of time in prison (in Canada).

I will be disgusted if Mr. Arar recieves one penny, unless forensic science can prove definitively, that his torture occured when it did, as he said it did ( it's not inconcievable that this man had been tortured before).

If so, I'll gladley get in line for the $36million torture club. If he could have come out of this in-humane experience as well as he has, I'm calling my travell agent.

[mikedavid00]

Anyway, does anybody have reliable info about what is it exactly that made the RCMP be suspicious of Arar?

People don't like to answer that question of course. Us as Canadians will absolutely say or do anything to defend him.

I've posted and researched extensively on Arar. He's someone who I consider an 'undesriable' and should be expelled from Canada.

The RCMP's report to me is irrelevant and unprofessional. It's a poltical report. Why is our gov't funding a website just for Arar? This is all nonsense. ANY important thing that poeple should know about this issue lays outside the report.

Arar burns me up inside. He's taking everyone for a ride and getting rich off Canadian tax payers. Immigrants already know these sorts of games, I don't know why everyone is so gullable. My soon to be father in law called Arar a 'liar trying to get rich'. He's read about there family, he knows what they're about. They are about lying to get into Canada, collecting welfare cheques, using $100,000's of services, trying to get into our poltiics, and now has a legal team trying to get rich of Canadian tax payers.

Was he torchered? The fact is, we don't know and the evidence weighs HEAVILY against him. If he was, was it our fault? Again, the evidence weighs against Canada having involvment of this as the US stated it was for their own reasons that he was sent there and it's the US's own reasons he's still on the security list.

Nobody really cares about the people right now living with hepatitis from that tainted blood scandal. meh.. forget about them. don't give them any money.

BUT ARAR!! LETS DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO PEG HIM AS A HERO AND DEFEND THIS PEICE OF TRASH.

[mikedavid00]

I'll gladley get in line for the $36million torture club. If he could have come out of this in-humane experience as well as he has, I'm calling my travell agent.

Same here.

Even if he was tortured, it's his fault for associating with terrorists and REPEATEDLY going back to the country WHICH HE FLED FROM (so he tells our refugee officials).

Little girls and boys are beaten, molested THEIR WHOLE LIVES and those kids get messed up.

Arar get's supposedly 'tortured' with no visible scars, and now he has a website, huge legal team, and wants to be a millionair off my tax dollars.

I say, GO TO HELL ARAR. ROT THERE AND LEAVE CANADA. GET OUT!

[JMH]

I'll gladley get in line for the $36million torture club. If he could have come out of this in-humane experience as well as he has, I'm calling my travell agent.

Same here.

Even if he was tortured, it's his fault for associating with terrorists and REPEATEDLY going back to the country WHICH HE FLED FROM (so he tells our refugee officials).

Little girls and boys are beaten, molested THEIR WHOLE LIVES and those kids get messed up.

Arar get's supposedly 'tortured' with no visible scars, and now he has a website, huge legal team, and wants to be a millionair off my tax dollars.

I say, GO TO HELL ARAR. ROT THERE AND LEAVE CANADA. GET OUT!

Thank you. For $36 million I want to see that the jumper cables blew his testicals completely off (photos) and into Lebanon. Perhaps a young Lebanese person will testify that they were hit in the head with a set of warm steaming balls from nowhere. DNA evidence

[madmax]

Thank you. For $36 million I want to see that the jumper cables blew his testicals completely off (photos) and into Lebanon. Perhaps a young Lebanese person will testify that they were hit in the head with a set of warm steaming balls from nowhere. DNA evidence

The Arar situation is very clear. The unbelievers will continue to be just that, just like there is still a flat earth society.

With regards to compensation. That will be left to the courts, and if Syria is willing to release the photos, well then, you would be writing a check for $36million, with this logic. I would disagree with this completely.

I don't know what the compensation should be. I remember people complaining that Milgard was suing for compensation. Same with Moore, Same with Morin.

You don't like the figure, I don't either. You think it is high. I think it is very excessive, probably won't be provable.

Canada's role is only the incompetence of the RCMP. The Role of the US and Role of Syria are other factors in his detainment, which Canada should not be compensating or apologizing for.