Conservatives Announce $200 Bio-Fuels Progam

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061219/...ofuels_strategy

The National Farmers Union has doubts it will amount to much.

[mikedavid00]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061219/...ofuels_strategy

The National Farmers Union has doubts it will amount to much.

Oh God here we go. Why are they doing this?? And suprise suprise, they are promoting ethynol fuel in Saskatoon. Gee I wonder why.

I don't like my tax dollars being spent on this.

Also, here we begin with teh 'sky is falling':

"It allows a civilization that is starting to have real fears about its future either in terms of energy availability and price on the one side or climate change on the other, to pretend for a least a while that they've got a solution. It's little more than a distraction."

I really hope this issue doesn't dominate our next election. It depends on what the media wants though.

They tried to do something similar in California and it got voted NO.

[blueblood]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061219/...ofuels_strategy

The National Farmers Union has doubts it will amount to much.

Oh God here we go. Why are they doing this?? And suprise suprise, they are promoting ethynol fuel in Saskatoon. Gee I wonder why.

I don't like my tax dollars being spent on this.

Also, here we begin with teh 'sky is falling':

"It allows a civilization that is starting to have real fears about its future either in terms of energy availability and price on the one side or climate change on the other, to pretend for a least a while that they've got a solution. It's little more than a distraction."

I really hope this issue doesn't dominate our next election. It depends on what the media wants though.

They tried to do something similar in California and it got voted NO.

The 200 mil. sounds more like an investment than anything, nothing wrong with that.

[jdobbin]

The 200 mil. sounds more like an investment than anything, nothing wrong with that.

The National Farmers Union doesn't think much about it at all.

[blueblood]

The 200 mil. sounds more like an investment than anything, nothing wrong with that.

The National Farmers Union doesn't think much about it at all.

Of course they don't, it's not the magic bullet. It does help out the economy though by providing jobs and by buying some of our produce. The problem I see with it though is that they buy the low end products that are feed quality and low low quality canola. it won't raise prices by very much that's for sure.

[jdobbin]

Of course they don't, it's not the magic bullet. It does help out the economy though by providing jobs and by buying some of our produce. The problem I see with it though is that they buy the low end products that are feed quality and low low quality canola. it won't raise prices by very much that's for sure.

I wonder how this helps farmers, especially with low prices offered. It could be a boondoggle. Lots of money invested with little to show for it. $200 million could go a longer way to diversify farm economies. For example, there is a few things listed on the NFU site that could be funded with this cash.

[mikedavid00]

The problem I see with it though is that they buy the low end products that are feed quality and low low quality canola. it won't raise prices by very much that's for sure.

I heard that ethanol and bio-fuels fail to solve problems because it takes natural gas to produce the fuels. Basically it costs $2 to make $1 worth of bio fuel.

And also:

"Unfortunately, much cooking with biofuels is done indoors, without efficient ventilation, and using fuels such as dung causes airborne pollution. This can be a serious health hazard; 1.5 million deaths were attributed to this cause by the World Health Organisation as of 2000. "

I think we just need to put up more nuclear power seing as there are amazing battery powered cars and SUV's coming soon. But I really don't know much on the topic as I know this can get complex.

[geoffrey]

Does the exhaust from a biofuel car smell nicer?

[jdobbin]

Does the exhaust from a biofuel car smell nicer?

Like beer and popcorn.

[blueblood]

Of course they don't, it's not the magic bullet. It does help out the economy though by providing jobs and by buying some of our produce. The problem I see with it though is that they buy the low end products that are feed quality and low low quality canola. it won't raise prices by very much that's for sure.

I wonder how this helps farmers, especially with low prices offered. It could be a boondoggle. Lots of money invested with little to show for it. $200 million could go a longer way to diversify farm economies. For example, there is a few things listed on the NFU site that could be funded with this cash.

I like the biofuel thing because it diversifies the economy and takes pressure off of big oil and creates some competition for food exports, it should in theory raise prices a little. Plus it provides jobs for other people so there isn't much wrong with that. 4.3 billion went to farm payments, that's getting ridiculous, I mean that's a lot of money the taxpayers are shelling out that could be spent on something else. I don't agree with the government doing that, it's too little to help and too much strain on the taxpayers.

heard that ethanol and bio-fuels fail to solve problems because it takes natural gas to produce the fuels. Basically it costs $2 to make $1 worth of bio fuel.

They can run diesel powered electric generator on 100% canola oil biodiesel. the hard thing with biofuels is cracking the energy production cycle. Once the cycle is cracked then it pays for itself.

[kimmy]

Am I the only one who giggled when they read the thread title?

I mean, I know the Conservatives are "frugal" on environmental issues, but $200?! That would only buy enough bio-fuel for Laureen Harper to drive her dirt-bike for a week.

-k

[jdobbin]

Am I the only one who giggled when they read the thread title?

I mean, I know the Conservatives are "frugal" on environmental issues, but $200?! That would only buy enough bio-fuel for Laureen Harper to drive her dirt-bike for a week.

$200 million is like $200 in the energy business.

We'll see how much farmers like this program. We have one here who does but all day long I've been hearing farmers on the radio who don't think the program is worth spit.

[Ricki Bobbi]

$200 million is like $200 in the energy business.

We'll see how much farmers like this program. We have one here who does but all day long I've been hearing farmers on the radio who don't think the program is worth spit.

You could have admitted your mistake. But you brush it off and then launch into yet another attack on yet another Government programme. Hmmm, let me guess which party you don't like.

[jdobbin]

In today's papers, they are saying the program is actually worth $345 million.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/National/...913068-sun.html

[hiti]

Who is behind this waste of food turned into fuel? Why look! It’s the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association promoting their “Climate Change Solution Made in Canada!” Their Website

Members: Archer Daniels Midland, BASF, Cargill, General Motors, Monsanto, Pioneer (a biotech division of Dupont) and Sylvite (fertilizer/fuel). Quite the rogue’s gallery of corporate welfare bums. And the man in charge? One Kory Teneycke, a former Ottawa lobbyist with Prospectus Associates. Prior to that, he was a senior policy advisor to Premier Mike Harris managing the energy and environment files in the Premier’s office. And before that he spent four years in senior organization roles with Opposition leader Preston Manning.

Nice how Stevie looks after his own.

Not to mention that cultivation of these crops which will be converted to fuel requires huge quantities of fossil fuel for farm machinery, pesticides and fertilizer, also their mass production as practiced in North America is generally regarded as being ecologically unsustainable. Effects include massive topsoil erosion, pollution of surface and groundwater with pesticides, and fertilizer runoff.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Not to mention that cultivation of these crops which will be converted to fuel requires huge quantities of fossil fuel for farm machinery, pesticides and fertilizer, also their mass production as practiced in North America is generally regarded as being ecologically unsustainable. Effects include massive topsoil erosion, pollution of surface and groundwater with pesticides, and fertilizer runoff.

Are you actually saying that we are better off without any biofuels?

Do provide some evidence if that is what you are saying, please.

[jdobbin]

Who is behind this waste of food turned into fuel? Why look! It’s the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association promoting their “Climate Change Solution Made in Canada!” Their Website

Members: Archer Daniels Midland, BASF, Cargill, General Motors, Monsanto, Pioneer (a biotech division of Dupont) and Sylvite (fertilizer/fuel). Quite the rogue’s gallery of corporate welfare bums. And the man in charge? One Kory Teneycke, a former Ottawa lobbyist with Prospectus Associates. Prior to that, he was a senior policy advisor to Premier Mike Harris managing the energy and environment files in the Premier’s office. And before that he spent four years in senior organization roles with Opposition leader Preston Manning.

Nice how Stevie looks after his own.

Certainly a lot of these huge companies seem to get a lot of corporate hand-outs.

http://www.mmkconsulting.com/media/globean...l19052003.shtml

[Ricki Bobbi]

Certainly a lot of these huge companies seem to get a lot of corporate hand-outs.

There's no evidence, or claim, of any sort of a handout here. Falsehoods, deception and disinformation. tsk tsk tsk

[hiti]

Not to mention that cultivation of these crops which will be converted to fuel requires huge quantities of fossil fuel for farm machinery, pesticides and fertilizer, also their mass production as practiced in North America is generally regarded as being ecologically unsustainable. Effects include massive topsoil erosion, pollution of surface and groundwater with pesticides, and fertilizer runoff.

Are you actually saying that we are better off without any biofuels?

Do provide some evidence if that is what you are saying, please.

Converting agriculture crops into biofuel means no more than a half of one per cent reduction in total (greenhouse) emissions. (Dave Martin of Greenpeace said} Although no figures were presented, there is emission in the production and manufacturing of biofuels that will offset any gains in vehicle emissions.

The biggest set up for failure with the Tory announcement is that "FARMERS" will be required to put up their crops or money to corporations selected to produce biofuel. So if farmers aren't willing to put out this biofuel is just another photo-op.

It would make better sense to use straw or wood chips. A bi-produce of existing productions.

[MightyAC]

I agree with this comment by the Green party....hopefully now that the CPC is responding to public opinion polls on the environment and taking it more seriously they will follow this advice.

Calgary, Jan. 4 - The Green Party of Canada today called on Environment Minister Rona Ambrose and Agriculture Minister Chuck Strahl to give the federal government's proposed biofuel initiative a fighting chance of survival by cutting it adrift from the doomed Clean Air Act.

"The government's proposal to spend $345 million for biofuel research and development represents a great opportunity for Canadian farmers and for the environment," said Green Party energy critic Mark Taylor.

"But by insisting that the biofuel initiative can only move forward as part of the Clean Air Act, the government is virtually ensuring that this money will never find its way into Canada's green economy," he said. "The Clean Air Act is flawed and will not survive in its current form. It is a mistake to tie good policy like the biofuel incentive to bad legislation like the Clean Air Act."

Green Party agriculture critic Kate Storey said that the biofuel industry offers important new marketing opportunities for Canada's farmers.

"After years of low prices, biofuel has created new hope for grain producers," said Storey. "It is unfair for the minority Conservative government to hold farmers hostage by tying biofuel investment to the flawed Clean Air Act."

Full Media Release

[geoffrey]

How can they have an agriculture critic when they don't even have an MP?

Pretending to be relevant and a real party isn't going to make them one. They are worse than the NDP, and it shows in their electoral results.

[MightyAC]

Solid response Geoff.

Poll numbers routinely show the Green party has the support of around 8 or 9 percent of the country. At election time our flawed electoral system forces many Canadians to vote strategically and their numbers drop some...usually to around 5 percent. Still under a system that actually treats all votes equally that would equate to about 15 seats.

Despite not having any seats they are a national party and have some very good ideas. In this case I agree with their idea that the Cons should proceed with the bio-fuel initiative separately instead of bundling it with the very flawed clean air plan.

Is it alright for me to criticize governments and propose ideas Geoff or do I have to win a seat first too?