Dion Won't Topple Government

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/afghan_dion

Dion won't support Duceppe's motion to bring down the government on Afghanistan.

It's a smart move because any election would not likely be fought solely on the issue of Afghanistan.

In other news, Dion has appointed Ignatieff as deputy leader. This is a smart move for both. It shows Dion as being inclusive and also that he doesn't have a "yes man" beside him. For Ignatieff, it gets him an important role in shaping the party that it is out in the forefront when some of his competitors like Rae, Kennedy and Hall-Findlay still wait to get elected.

[fellowtraveller]

Kudos to Dion for fighting off the urge to surrender completely and immediately to the Taliban. As a French citizen it must be hard to suppress this compulsion.

[jdobbin]

Kudos to Dion for fighting off the urge to surrender completely and immediately to the Taliban. As a French citizen it must be hard to suppress this compulsion.

Dion knows that he doesn't need to support Duceppe's motion to defeat the government on Afghanistan to appeal to Quebecers. If there is success over the next months in Afghanistan, the Liberals can take credit for sending the troops to the south. He also knows that if things don't go well, he can criticize how the war is being conducted since the new Conservative government is in charge. I'd expect no less if the situation was reversed and the Liberals had won.

Afghanistan is hardly the issue to score points on or win an election over. It can certainly takes any political party down in the polls though and contribute to defeat.

[fellowtraveller]

Dion won't support Duceppe for a simple reason: he knows it would be very risky to be seen as an appeaser, as a quitter, as a coward, in the rest of Canada.

By way of comparison, Layotn has made a bad miscalculation on the mood of Canadians on this IMO. He forgets that many Canadians believe in this mission. He forgets that Canadians want to be seen as making a difference in the world, an active difference if that is what is required. He forgets that at least some Canadians are aware that Canadas military has been a laughingstock and a joke internationally and especially within NATO for some time. Aside from the arguable drama over the mission itself, the Canuck presence in Afghanistan has really helped the Canadian image in the eyes of our allies. For once, we can do more than talk, in a situation where talk is obviously cheap. It has undoubtedly gotten the country some respect for standing up for something.

Dion has avoided this failing of Layton so far. He knows better.

[Topaz]

I wonder how much info our govt has over this war and the govt, Canadians that are dying over to fight against the Taliban. I watched a newsreel on the net from an English journalist, who was a woman, to see what was happening in Afghanistan. What she found out the money that this govt got for reconstruction didn't go for the people but to palaces and that the people of this country say the "Northern Alliance" which the Taliban fought, now is in all levels of govt over there and they are "warlords" and we, in the west, are helping them to fight against the Taliban, which treated the people alot better than the Northern Alliance! People within the govt there are making tons of money over the drug trade, which most goes to Europe! After watching this 25 minutes film I say we have our own "Iraq" and are being used by 2 different groups in Afghanistan. I don't think our people should be there and dying for this government in Afghanistan which is crooked. I also don't think other govts are telling all to their people who are also dying there. It seems just Maybe the NDP has it more right than the other two parties do, although the Libs didn't plan to stay past '07. I encourage every Canadian to use the net to find the truth about this country Canadians are dying for and you too may find what I have.

[jdobbin]

Dion won't support Duceppe for a simple reason: he knows it would be very risky to be seen as an appeaser, as a quitter, as a coward, in the rest of Canada.

By way of comparison, Layotn has made a bad miscalculation on the mood of Canadians on this IMO. He forgets that many Canadians believe in this mission. He forgets that Canadians want to be seen as making a difference in the world, an active difference if that is what is required. He forgets that at least some Canadians are aware that Canadas military has been a laughingstock and a joke internationally and especially within NATO for some time. Aside from the arguable drama over the mission itself, the Canuck presence in Afghanistan has really helped the Canadian image in the eyes of our allies. For once, we can do more than talk, in a situation where talk is obviously cheap. It has undoubtedly gotten the country some respect for standing up for something.

Dion has avoided this failing of Layton so far. He knows better.

Support for the mission has fallen over the last several months. I don't know that the British or Soviets were quitters in Afghanistan. NATO can probably only hope to stabilize the region but Afghanistan isn't about to give up its tribalism or its drug trade easily. The Brits and the Soviets learned this over time.

At some point, Canada will have to assess how much progress can be made. If we don't, we could be permanently stationed in Afghanistan.

[August1991]

In other news, Dion has appointed Ignatieff as deputy leader. This is a smart move for both. It shows Dion as being inclusive and also that he doesn't have a "yes man" beside him. For Ignatieff, it gets him an important role in shaping the party that it is out in the forefront when some of his competitors like Rae, Kennedy and Hall-Findlay still wait to get elected.

Trudeau did the same in 1968 and yet most of them were gone in a year or two. Turner stayed a bit longer.

I happen to think that, despite appearances, Harper is more of a team player than Dion.

[jdobbin]

I wonder how much info our govt has over this war and the govt, Canadians that are dying over to fight against the Taliban. I watched a newsreel on the net from an English journalist, who was a woman, to see what was happening in Afghanistan. What she found out the money that this govt got for reconstruction didn't go for the people but to palaces and that the people of this country say the "Northern Alliance" which the Taliban fought, now is in all levels of govt over there and they are "warlords" and we, in the west, are helping them to fight against the Taliban, which treated the people alot better than the Northern Alliance! People within the govt there are making tons of money over the drug trade, which most goes to Europe! After watching this 25 minutes film I say we have our own "Iraq" and are being used by 2 different groups in Afghanistan. I don't think our people should be there and dying for this government in Afghanistan which is crooked. I also don't think other govts are telling all to their people who are also dying there. It seems just Maybe the NDP has it more right than the other two parties do, although the Libs didn't plan to stay past '07. I encourage every Canadian to use the net to find the truth about this country Canadians are dying for and you too may find what I have.

The military themselves indicated that the mission would overextend the forces. It has. And now the extension means that Canada has very little to give in the event of another world-wide or Canadian need for military forces.

Even if we up the forces by 5000 people as what was intended by the Liberals in 2005, they would still need officers and instructors who are presently in Afghanistan to train them. As the military has said, the force is divided into those serving in Afghanistan and those preparing to go.

The government says very little about Afghanistan. It is hard for anyone to get a bead on what is happening. And in a vacuum of no information, people draw their own conclusions as people come home dead.

[jdobbin]

Trudeau did the same in 1968 and yet most of them were gone in a year or two. Turner stayed a bit longer.

I happen to think that, despite appearances, Harper is more of a team player than Dion.

Turner was who I was thinking about in terms of a Liberal leadership election with several Liberal candidates. He stayed and gave financial markets more confidence when he headed up Finance. It gave Trudeau a strong cabinet initially.

MacEachen stayed as well and gave the party someone who knew all the ins and outs of Ottawa.

Robert Winters was one of the elders of the party and gave it a good shot and finished second. He wouldn't have lasted long though had he stayed. He died of a heart attack in 1969.

Likewise, Joe Green didn't last long. He has a heart attack in 1969 and a stroke in 1971. His health made him quit in 1972 although he did serve some time in the Senate for his loyalty to Trudeau.

Paul Martin Sr was also a longtime Liberal. He has been defeated for the leadership twice before though.

Eric Keirans didn't stay that much is certain. He felt closer to the NDP in later days.

Paul Hellyer clashed with Trudeau and sat as a long time independent. He is still an iconoclast.

I don't know that I categorize Harper as a team player. I think he basically has control of all the portfolios in his government. I think the vote is still out on Dion. His initial moves though have been ones that include Liberal leadership candidates rather than excluding them.

[seabee]

Dion (nor Duceppe) will not topple the government before the next budget. Harper has promised Québec that he will sette the "fiscal imbalance" in the next budget, which should mean a few billions for Québec, and Charest is already spending the money, or at least counting on it. Nothing to do with Afghanistan.

[jdobbin]

Dion (nor Duceppe) will not topple the government before the next budget. Harper has promised Québec that he will sette the "fiscal imbalance" in the next budget, which should mean a few billions for Québec, and Charest is already spending the money, or at least counting on it. Nothing to do with Afghanistan.

Given that last weekend, they provinces couldn't come to a decision on the so-called fiscal imbalance, it is very likely that some province is going to be very angry.

[mikedavid00]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/afghan_dion

Dion won't support Duceppe's motion to bring down the government on Afghanistan.

Smart move. Dions people were leading him down the wrong path.. now they seem to be leading him down the right path.

It's a smart move because any election would not likely be fought solely on the issue of Afghanistan.

I agree.

In other news, Dion has appointed Ignatieff as deputy leader. This is a smart move for both. It shows Dion as being inclusive and also that he doesn't have a "yes man" beside him.

I heard rumors that they are trying to get him to 'stay' in the party.

He's been doing a very shotty job in the house of commons. I still don't think he'll stick around. However I do think that he'll enjoy the money.. I guess anythings possible.

[madmax]

Dion won't support Duceppe for a simple reason: he knows it would be very risky to be seen as an appeaser, as a quitter, as a coward, in the rest of Canada.

By way of comparison, Layotn has made a bad miscalculation on the mood of Canadians on this IMO. He forgets that many Canadians believe in this mission. Dion has avoided this failing of Layton so far. He knows better.

I don't think Layton has made a miscalculation at all. Dion has actually taken the position that Kennedy held, which is the same as Laytons. I am certain if Harper had a crystal ball, or a better grasp of the situation, he would not have been suckered into extending this failed endeavor. Dion has avoided nothing except the position his party put our troops into.

2,200 troops supporting a mission that is better served by SAS, JTF2, and US Spec Forces, has been a failure. This isn't 2001. Its nearly 2007. There are over 5 Million Pashtuns with a code of Pashtun Wahli that has been going on for thousands of years. We cannot kill them all. We are on search and destroy missions. These are not peace keeping missions (keeping two sides that want peace apart, (Cyprus) or Peace Making (tilting the balance so that one side backs down (Kosovo). It is seek out the enemy and kill him.

I hate to say this, but unless you intend to declare war on Pakistan, you cannot win. Pakistan, working with Karzai, who is a Pashtun, and supported the Taliban when he handed over his mujahedin groups over to them in the early 90s are the only ones whom can put a lid on the Pashtuns. The Taliban of today are not the Taliban of the 90s. Afghanistan tribal code is more fluid, then simply calling any Pashtun whom hides another Pashtun a Taliban or Taliban supporter.

Regardless, Afghans have fought these kinds of wars, and this one is no different. If Karzai cannot secure enough tribal support, from the Pashtuns themselves, and not the Sodomizing, Drug Dealing back stabbing Northern Alliance, then he cannot last as a leader in Afghanistan. Either the Pashtuns or NA will Kill him.

The Afghans have to want us there, each mistake we make, each child killed, makes Karzais task more difficult. I am sorry is never a good enough answer. Tribal code asks for vengence, and Pashtuns will extract that vengence, and our goodwill will have been spent. we've been there 5 years and have 2 years to accomplish something that will last.

The mission will be a failed mission if it doesn't change, change drastically, to securing the country and providing the security needed for Afghans to lead themselved. We are there now, and cannot leave a vacuum as there is still time to act. However, we will have to leave at some time. Everyone knows this and our commitment is to 2009 I believe. So there is 2 years to get this mission right. What Karzai says in public to maintain Canadian Troops there is true. He needs them there, but he doesn't need them hunting down the Taliban, and wasting resources on search and destroy missions.

You know we screwed up extending the mission, when the General is talking about getting Naval Personal and sending them to a land locked country to drive vehicles around in an Assymetrical War in which the Vehicles are the target of choice for the Pashtun/Taliban fighters. Yup, just what someone in the Navy signed up for, to get killed driving a truck.

Luckily this stupid idea has been put on the back burner for now.

That said, If you support this mission, as a former military gunner, I suggest if you are of enlistment age, to support the mission with your life. Today, Reserve Force Personel are serving are country and some have been killed. Reserves used to be the weekend warriors. You can take time out of your regular jobs, and sign up for part time duty, or you can join up now full time particularly if you are unemployed or a CEO.

I also think Layton was on the mark when the NDP passed the Veterans First Motion. This motion passed in the house. One of the things it did was Eliminate the deduction from annuity for retired and disabled Canadian Force Members- ensuring that veterans were compensated fairly for their injuries.

It eliminated Unfair reduction of SISIP long term disability benefits from medically released members of the Canadian Forces so that Veterans are fairly compensated for injuries in the line of duty.

Essentially guys going over to Afghanistan and coming back with missing limbs, were getting the shaft.

This came to light, and I believe Canadians Recognized the sacrifice these good soldiers were doing. That they represent us and our national pride overseas. So it was only fair that we took care of our own when they returned.

Only the Conservatives voted against this motion.

It's easy to keep them over there, but there is a responsibility to look after the wounded when they come back home.

No, I think Peter Stoffer and Jack Layton have the concerns of the Soldiers and the Mission front and centre.

[Jean_Poutine]

If there is success over the next months in Afghanistan, the Liberals can take credit for sending the troops to the south. He also knows that if things don't go well, he can criticize how the war is being conducted since the new Conservative government is in charge.

So, if the mission goes bad, blame the deployment to Kandahar on the Conservatives even though it was the Liberals that did it. If it goes well, take credit for what they've since been ambivalent about.

[Ricki Bobbi]

So, if the mission goes bad, blame the deployment to Kandahar on the Conservatives even though it was the Liberals that did it. If it goes well, take credit for what they've since been ambivalent about.

A very cynical move, but why wouldn't Dion do that?

[Riverwind]

Dion (nor Duceppe) will not topple the government before the next budget. Harper has promised Québec that he will sette the "fiscal imbalance" in the next budget, which should mean a few billions for Québec, and Charest is already spending the money, or at least counting on it. Nothing to do with Afghanistan.

It will be interesting to see how Harper deals with this issue. He is intelligent enough to know it is a bogus issue and that the only real solution would lower federal taxes and raise provincial taxes, however, he has set expectations in Quebec that it would be a cash transfer of some sort. Unfortunately, any significant additional cash transfer to Quebec would leave Ontario and Alberta howling.

[Jean_Poutine]

I wonder how much info our govt has over this war and the govt, Canadians that are dying over to fight against the Taliban. I watched a newsreel on the net from an English journalist, who was a woman, to see what was happening in Afghanistan. What she found out the money that this govt got for reconstruction didn't go for the people but to palaces and that the people of this country say the "Northern Alliance" which the Taliban fought, now is in all levels of govt over there and they are "warlords" and we, in the west, are helping them to fight against the Taliban, which treated the people alot better than the Northern Alliance! People within the govt there are making tons of money over the drug trade, which most goes to Europe! After watching this 25 minutes film I say we have our own "Iraq" and are being used by 2 different groups in Afghanistan. I don't think our people should be there and dying for this government in Afghanistan which is crooked. I also don't think other govts are telling all to their people who are also dying there. It seems just Maybe the NDP has it more right than the other two parties do, although the Libs didn't plan to stay past '07. I encourage every Canadian to use the net to find the truth about this country Canadians are dying for and you too may find what I have.

So you found the truth in 25 minutes of a film you won't even give us the link to?

Afghanistan is not Iraq. If you want to discuss the differences, I'm more than happy to do so.

The money goes to agencies such as CIDA.

Canada has responded to the Afghan government's appeal for long-term development investments. We renewed our commitment to Afghanistan in March 2004 with $250 million in new funds for development assistance between 2005 and 2009. That contribution has been distributed as follows: $100 million in 2005-06, $60 million in 2006-07, $50 million in 2007-08 and $40 million in 2008-09. In March 2006, CIDA reallocated an additional $40 million to Afghanistan to maintain the funding level at $100 million for 2006-07.

Most recently, on May 17 2006, Prime Minister Harper announced a further $310 million in development funding to Afghanistan. These additional funds will maintain CIDA's funding level at $100 million per year through to 2010-11.

Canada's total allocation of development assistance to Afghanistan over the 2001 to 2011 period is almost $1 billion.

Canada has also recently extended the mandate of its Provincial Reconstruction Team in Kandahar for another 24 months from 2007 to 2009. This will help to ensure the success of multinational and Government of Afghanistan-led efforts to stabilize the Kandahar region and to build local confidence in the Government of Afghanistan's ability to meet their needs.

http://w3.acdi-cida.gc.ca/CIDAWEB/acdicida...D-129153625-S6T

While people accuse Harper of focusing only on military operations, he's allocated more to development than the Liberals. Further, as you can see, not only was the military mission extended to 2009, but the PRT was too.

How is Canada's PRT funded?

The PRT will be a channel for programming from the Department of National Defence, DFAIT, CIDA, and the RCMP.

http://www.canada-afghanistan.gc.ca/prov_r...truction-en.asp

Since the Tokyo Conference on Reconstruction Assistance to Afghanistan in January 2002, Afghanistan has been the single largest recipient of Canadian bilateral aid with pledges of more than $616 million in reconstruction and development assistance. Delivered through the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), Canada's assistance supports priorities identified by the Afghan government in its National Development Framework. Current support is focused on interventions in the areas of governance, rural livelihoods, and support to the Government of Afghanistan.

Specific results of CIDA-funded initiatives include:

More than 62,000 former combatants have been disarmed and demobilized through the CIDA-funded Afghan New Beginnings Program. Under the program, former soldiers selected reintegration packages to enable them to slowly return to a new civilian life. Training programs included initiatives in agriculture, tailoring, teaching, and demining.

The Microfinance Investment and Support Facility (MISFA), which is one of the Afghan government's top priorities, expanded the existing microfinance network in Afghanistan and provides a range of financial services, including loans for income generation and enterprise development, savings services, and consumer loans to low-income people, particularly women. Canada is the lead donor to this program, one of the largest microfinance schemes in the world, and one which has reached almost 100,000 clients so far, 91 percent of whom are women.

The Government of Afghanistan has asked Canada to be the sole donor for the National Priority Programmes Co-ordination Unit within the Government of Afghanistan. Through this project, CIDA is helping the government of Afghanistan to direct its resources and programs into the provinces where it will have the greatest strategic reach and impact. It will also help the Government of Afghanistan extend the positive reach of the central government to rural Afghanistan.

More than 8,000 villages have been identified for funding through the National Solidarity Program, enabling an estimated 140,000 families to access basic rural infrastructure.

More than 9,000 pieces of heavy weaponry such as artillery, tanks, and rocket launchers have been surrendered and returned to central government control. These weapons are the same that bombarded Kabul and other major cities in Afghanistan for months and killed thousands. This impressive achievement was made possible by very close collaboration between development and political officers from the Canadian Embassy in Kabul, and Canadian military personnel based in Afghanistan.

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cidaweb/acdicid...S-426165819-SLH

Canada will support efforts to help save tens of thousands of Afghan children from mental impairments by supplementing their diets with necessary nutrients. Minister Verner announced a $750,000 contribution to the Micronutrient Initiative, a Canada-based internationally-recognized not-for-profit organization dedicated to eliminating vitamin and mineral deficiencies worldwide. Minister Verner made the announcement in her address to a meeting here of the 52nd NATO Parliamentary Assembly.

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/CIDAWEB/acdicid...JS?OpenDocument

Canada, through the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), will provide nearly $5 million for emergency food aid for tens of thousands of the most vulnerable families in Kandahar Province, who face acute food shortages and internal displacement as winter approaches. The Minister also announced nearly $6 million to finance reconstruction and repair of roads and bridges in Kandahar, as well as to help build rural community services such as clinics and agricultural supports for Afghan farmers and villagers.

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cidaweb/acdicid...C-102216131-RGZ

"Canada is proud to help Afghan women realize the promise of the country's new constitution, which recognizes the rights of women," Minister Verner said. "These projects also mobilize the power of women as agents of economic development and social change, to improve the well-being of their families and their communities."

The first is a $14.5 million Girls’ Education Project to be implemented by the world-renowned Bangladesh Rural Advancement Committee (BRAC) in collaboration with the Afghan Ministry of Education. The project will establish up to 4,000 community-based schools, after-school learning programs and provide training for 4,000 new female schoolteachers. About 120,000 schoolchildren in 11 provinces (including Kandahar) will benefit, 85 percent of them girls.

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cidaweb/acdicid...C-102283559-GSJ

Afghanistan - CIDA-funded projects

[Jean_Poutine]

Support for the mission has fallen over the last several months.

It seems like you want to believe that, but according to CBC, you're wrong. It has fluctuated from month to month. Support was actually up in November.

I don't know that the British or Soviets were quitters in Afghanistan.

Haven't you been reading the news? The Brits are launching an operation against the Taliban to help clear the way for development, and Canadians are involved.

At some point, Canada will have to assess how much progress can be made. If we don't, we could be permanently stationed in Afghanistan.

I'm sure assessing the situation is an ongoing process. That said, compare the amount of time in Afghanistan with the amount of time spent in Bosnia.

[Jean_Poutine]

The military themselves indicated that the mission would overextend the forces. It has. And now the extension means that Canada has very little to give in the event of another world-wide or Canadian need for military forces.

Even if we up the forces by 5000 people as what was intended by the Liberals in 2005, they would still need officers and instructors who are presently in Afghanistan to train them. As the military has said, the force is divided into those serving in Afghanistan and those preparing to go.

The government says very little about Afghanistan. It is hard for anyone to get a bead on what is happening. And in a vacuum of no information, people draw their own conclusions as people come home dead.

You can thank the Liberals for the shortage. They may have talked about adding 5000, but they cut about 22,000 in 1993. That doesn't exactly balance out does it?

The military is in the process of training recruits for the additional 13,000 regular forces and 10,000 reserves that the Conservatives talked about, and despite Afghanistan, recruitment is up.

[madmax]

[

Afghanistan is not Iraq. If you want to discuss the differences, I'm more than happy to do so.

Perhaps you might start a separate thread that focuses soley on Afghanistan, as opposed to this thread, which is trying to determine if Dion is clever or not.

I am interested in such a discussion.

[Jean_Poutine]

Dion (nor Duceppe) will not topple the government before the next budget. Harper has promised Québec that he will sette the "fiscal imbalance" in the next budget, which should mean a few billions for Québec, and Charest is already spending the money, or at least counting on it. Nothing to do with Afghanistan.

It will be interesting to see how Harper deals with this issue. He is intelligent enough to know it is a bogus issue and that the only real solution would lower federal taxes and raise provincial taxes, however, he has set expectations in Quebec that it would be a cash transfer of some sort. Unfortunately, any significant additional cash transfer to Quebec would leave Ontario and Alberta howling.

Quebec already gets almost half of the money, about $5-6 billion, from the equalization program. Now, consider that it has the second largest population, second largest city, second largest concentration of corporate headquarters and Quebec is rich in resources. I would not call that a have not province, nor would I call Ontario a have not province if it fell into some economic difficulty. In my opinion, have not provinces are provinces that don't have as much resources and/or population and/or are less developed. So how about we give Quebec the $3.9 billion for the so-called "imbalance," and scrap the equalization payment?

[jdobbin]

So, if the mission goes bad, blame the deployment to Kandahar on the Conservatives even though it was the Liberals that did it. If it goes well, take credit for what they've since been ambivalent about.

I don't think the Liberals are going to blame to Conservatives for deploying to Kandahar for the very reason you say.

What they can do after February and what the role of opposition is is to ask questions about what the Tories will be doing in terms of the future in Afghanistan. It is a fair question and not one really answered thus far by Liberals prior or Tories now.

[jdobbin]

It seems like you want to believe that, but according to CBC, you're wrong. It has fluctuated from month to month. Support was actually up in November.

Haven't you been reading the news? The Brits are launching an operation against the Taliban to help clear the way for development, and Canadians are involved.

I'm sure assessing the situation is an ongoing process. That said, compare the amount of time in Afghanistan with the amount of time spent in Bosnia.

I drew a line a line from the same graphic you show and the line goes down not up.

My reference was to the former British empire and their defeat in Afghanistan not the present British endeavours.

Compare the amount of troops compared to Kosovo and Bosnia: More in the former Yugoslavia and less in Afghanistan. Also: more attacks directed at NATO forces in Afghanistan than in the former Yugoslavia.

The former Yugoslavia had an economy. Afghanistan doesn't.

It is not so easy to compare the two.

If the Taliban continues to make security an issue, the assessment will be: Can Afghanistan ever stand on its own? I don't know how many Canadians would be up for a low grade insurgency for a duration past two years.

[jdobbin]

You can thank the Liberals for the shortage. They may have talked about adding 5000, but they cut about 22,000 in 1993. That doesn't exactly balance out does it?

The military is in the process of training recruits for the additional 13,000 regular forces and 10,000 reserves that the Conservatives talked about, and despite Afghanistan, recruitment is up.

The military has repeatedly said they will need time to train new recruits and the long term deployment affects that ability.

I totally agree that Chretien cut ruthlessly in the early 1990s. Paul Martin was in the process of restoring some of what was lost.

[madmax]

. That said, compare the amount of time in Afghanistan with the amount of time spent in Bosnia.

Bosnia Peace Keeping

Kosovo Peace Making

Afghanistan WAR

If we are comparing Wars, then Afghanistan is closing in on a Vietnam timeline. A Soviet Afghan timeline.

And has surpassed our participation in WW2. Our participation in Korea. Our Participation in WW1. It has also surpassed our participation in the war of 1812.