Canadian Liberals Reach 40% After Dion Win

[gerryhatrick]

Gerry not only do I beg to differ with you on this point, it is also a fact of the very topic of this thread is the same as another thread about the polls. But I am a patient man and if you insist on doing this, the way you have.

Jeebus Cripes WW, your first sentance does not even make sense.

After reading it 4 times I think you're trying to say that there is another topic on this poll.

Link it. I will delete this topic if it exists.

Either that or complain elsewhere.

[Canadian Blue]

No GH, just post your topic in a thread which is already discussing the Liberal surge in polls so you and Norman can keep on truckin with your partisan hatred of all things Harper.

[gerryhatrick]

No GH, just post your topic in a thread which is already discussing the Liberal surge in polls so you and Norman can keep on truckin with your partisan hatred of all things Harper.

This topic does not even mention Harper.

Each new poll is news-worthy. They demonstrate trends...different polling organizations have different reputations...taken seperately they create an overall impression of what's happening.

I will not bury a significant new poll in an old thread just to please you and your partisan HATRED of all things non-Harper!

[Canadian Blue]

I will not bury a significant new poll in an old thread just to please you and your partisan HATRED of all things non-Harper!

I'm not a cheerleader for any political party, I actually want to have an actual debate on issues instead of always dealing with people who refer to party policies in order to formulate their own beliefs. I'm actually considering getting a Liberal membership, I just hope that all Liberal's aren't so naive as yourself and think they are holier than thou.

[normanchateau]

No GH, just post your topic in a thread which is already discussing the Liberal surge in polls so you and Norman can keep on truckin with your partisan hatred of all things Harper.

I feel honoured CB for deserving a special mention. You'll be pleased to know that in less than a week I depart for Asia and will have no web access for a month. The last time this happened was a year ago. When I left Canada, Martin was ahead in the polls and the next time I had internet access, Harper was. Could happen again though I think Harper might need something more novel than adscam and claims of Liberal corruption to do Dion in.

[Saturn]

Shouldn't the topic of this thread be "NDP Support plummets again"?

Ten percent, eh? Is that a "National party"? Is that a party that's even going to survive an election? Are we seeing the end of smiling Jack Layton and his used Socialism dealership? Will the Green Party push the NDP into FIFTH place?

Yes, the NDP electorate is so pleased with Harper's undemocratic and sleazy tactics that they would rather vote for a party they don't like than a party they hate. My guess was a liberal minority due to NDPers voting liberal but now it's starting to look like a liberal majority. Thank Harper for that.

[Saturn]

I will not bury a significant new poll in an old thread just to please you and your partisan HATRED of all things non-Harper!

I'm not a cheerleader for any political party, I actually want to have an actual debate on issues instead of always dealing with people who refer to party policies in order to formulate their own beliefs. I'm actually considering getting a Liberal membership, I just hope that all Liberal's aren't so naive as yourself and think they are holier than thou.

They did think that they are holier than thou because of an oposition made up of incompetent nuts. Now Harper is giving them the opportunity to feel holier than thou again because he is a fruitcake and it doesn't take much to be better than him. He is setting awfully low standards.

[Canadian Blue]

Mimas, come on, learn to live outside the box and realize that their are political views different from your own. Trust me, when a person uses the argument that they don't like a politician because he's a "fruitcake" I completely understand that viewpoint. But what about on the issues instead of making a generalization with no merit. Perhaps Harper likes eating fruitcake, but that doesn't necessarily make him a fruitcake. If I drink Black Label does that make me black?

acceptance of different views: the acceptance of the differing views of other people, e.g. in religious or political matters, and fairness toward the people who hold these different views

[normanchateau]

Mimas, come on, learn to live outside the box and realize that their are political views different from your own. Trust me, when a person uses the argument that they don't like a politician because he's a "fruitcake" I completely understand that viewpoint. But what about on the issues instead of making a generalization with no merit. Perhaps Harper likes eating fruitcake, but that doesn't necessarily make him a fruitcake.

Right, not necessarily but there's something fruitcake-like about wanting permanent criminal records for simple possession of a few grams of marijuana. Approximately 5% of those found guilty of simple possession go to jail. Harper supports the current criminalization laws. None of the major parties do nor do a majority of Canadians.

The current simple possession laws, which Harper favours, simply encourage disrespect for the law.

[Remiel]

There is something seriously wrong with a law that would make a criminal out of 50% of Canadian (the 50% who have tried marijuana).

[Canadian Blue]

Before we make the plungle and legalize or decriminilize marijuana, we need to ensure that we can handle any possible economic reprocussions at the border, as well as make sure LE has the necessary tools to arrest those who use the drug while driving.

I support full legalization, but only after the appropriate laws have been reformed ensuring those who do endanger other's while high on the drug can be prosecuted. As far as I know their is no test for those hopped up on pot, and the fact police can no longer get a person's urine to test is discomforting.

[southerncomfort]

Mimas, come on, learn to live outside the box and realize that their are political views different from your own. Trust me, when a person uses the argument that they don't like a politician because he's a "fruitcake" I completely understand that viewpoint. But what about on the issues instead of making a generalization with no merit. Perhaps Harper likes eating fruitcake, but that doesn't necessarily make him a fruitcake. If I drink Black Label does that make me black?

acceptance of different views: the acceptance of the differing views of other people, e.g. in religious or political matters, and fairness toward the people who hold these different views

Well said CB

[normanchateau]

There is something seriously wrong with a law that would make a criminal out of 50% of Canadian (the 50% who have tried marijuana).

50% is a good guess. Actually 56% of Canadians and 47% of British Columbians have never used marijuana.

http://carbc.uvic.ca/pubs/CARBCReport-CannabisUseFINAL.pdf

[normanchateau]

As far as I know their is no test for those hopped up on pot,

Australia employs roadside saliva tests which are sensitive to the presence of marijuana:

http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews..._testing_it.htm

If Canadian police forces are allowed to employ breathalyzers for alcohol, I see no reason why they couldn't measure saliva for marijuana.

[Canadian Blue]

If we can get that into place then of course it can be done. I'd support full legalization, and make marijuana similar to alcohol in terms of regulations.

[sharkman]

As far as I know their is no test for those hopped up on pot,

Australia employs roadside saliva tests which are sensitive to the presence of marijuana:

http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews..._testing_it.htm

If Canadian police forces are allowed to employ breathalyzers for alcohol, I see no reason why they couldn't measure saliva for marijuana.

Norm, is there any topic on this forum that you won't hijack so you can trot out one of your favourite ponies and beat it to death on?

[mikedavid00]

Very amusing when the polls show the Libs are gaining the right wing nut jobs are trying

to discredit the results.

It's not surprising. The alternative would be for them to acknowledge that Stephen Harper is not the person to lead CPC into the next election. Personally I hope that Stephen Harper does lead CPC into the next election since replacing him with a social moderate might actually help the CPC defeat Dion.

Don't you know the voting demographics of Canada?

Are you referring to the fact that 65% of Canadians vote for social moderates and parties to the left of CPC, i.e., Liberals, BQ, NDP and Greens?

That's one start.

But there's more voting behaviors to how Canadians vote.

Negative add campaigns or how a campaign is run can make or break a US election.

In Canada it's a whole other game. We vote down regional lines and ethnic lines. And we vote against parties, not becuase we are in favor of them.

You can call 30,000 poeple in Ontario and you'll get the GTA most often. The majority will support Liberal. However, that does not translate into parliment seats. Go to any place outside the GTA and you will find Conservative seats. These polsters should be doing even polling in each riding to get their data. But with only 1000 calls throughout all of Canada, it's not goign to be that accurate.

People who are voting CPC now will need REASON to against them. The income trusts is the only scar against Harper. I doubt he'll lose seats over that.

The swing seats are in Quebec and possibly some GTA NDP seats. But those aren't going to affect a minority gov't for anyone.

Unless harper really screws up, things will stay the same.

And I can't stress enough what I'm about to say:

The CPC will NOT win a majority gov't unless they get the immigrant vote. It's factual, it's proven, case closed. There's no point even discussing majorities until the immigrants learn who is in power and swings that way. CPC at this point is going to have to create a 'New Canadian Supplement' and basically give each household money in order to bribe all immigrants for votes and claim that they are the good party for immigrants.

Unless they do that, I don't ever see them gaining a majority.

[cybercoma]

Yes, the NDP electorate is so pleased with Harper's undemocratic and sleazy tactics that they would rather vote for a party they don't like than a party they hate. My guess was a liberal minority due to NDPers voting liberal but now it's starting to look like a liberal majority. Thank Harper for that.

Who cares what socialists think?

[watching&waiting]

People get over all this and remember it is only a poll and that means it really is not something that remains true much more beyond the time it was taken. It only is a smal slice in the picture of what the public thinks, and being that it is not any where near the kind of polls done during elections, it means even less. It is nothing more then a feel good poll about the fact that the Liberals have voted a new leader. Remember when Turner was voted leader and the polls had him walking to victory and could not be beaten? Well, that for sure shows you just how wrong a poll can be.

Dion will now have to give out his policy on the public forums and he will need to be more indepth with his plans then he has in the past. We will see what he will be like when the toough questions will be asked. The thing about dual citizenship will be minor, but in the end he will need to give it up, as the GG did with her appointment, and that being the highest office in the land, I could make argument for both views, but in the end it will be put the same way as the GG did it.

Dion has yet to have his feet turned to the fire about his rather bad record with the environment and he will need much more then promises on that score, if he is to be taken seriously. His English is very bad but maybe within 6-8 months he will be able to be better at it. I can still see the fractures in the Liberal ranks even though they are trying to put on a united front. That will not bode well during election time, as policy will be scattered and many will appear to conflict against each other. The debate during an election will be a big problem as whle Dion may do well in French, he will most likely get killed in the English debates.

So yes this is a poll that is still about the honeymoon with a new leader, but wait for the rest and see how that pans out.

[Saturn]

Yes, the NDP electorate is so pleased with Harper's undemocratic and sleazy tactics that they would rather vote for a party they don't like than a party they hate. My guess was a liberal minority due to NDPers voting liberal but now it's starting to look like a liberal majority. Thank Harper for that.

Who cares what socialists think?

Socialists are voters two. If half of the NDP vote goes to the LIberals, we will have a Liberal majority govenment. You wouldn't care if you thought that the Libs and the CPC are the same.

[normanchateau]

Yes, the NDP electorate is so pleased with Harper's undemocratic and sleazy tactics that they would rather vote for a party they don't like than a party they hate. My guess was a liberal minority due to NDPers voting liberal but now it's starting to look like a liberal majority. Thank Harper for that.

Who cares what socialists think?

Socialists are voters two. If half of the NDP vote goes to the LIberals, we will have a Liberal majority govenment.

For this to happen, Dion will have to move the Liberals to the left on a number of positions. In doing so, he runs the risk of losing former PC voters who supported Martin. On the other hand, putting a wealthy, tax-cutting, pro-business industrialist like Martin in the leader's chair didn't buy the Liberals very much. Martin seemed to get many of his economic ideas from Preston Manning. So maybe appealing to the more moderate NDP supporters would be more productive than appealing to CPC voters. I suspect most CPC voters wouldn't vote Liberal even if Stephen Harper lead the Liberals.

[Slavik44]

If the Liberals were to achieve a majority government I would be very depressed, I think it would be one of the worst things for Canadian politics at the present. Niether the Liberals or the Conservatives have prooven that they have or can offer what is neccesary to govern this country with a majority.

I watched the Liberal Leadership convention and couldn't help but cringe every time I heard the philosophy of name recognition. Thats what i feel like I am being offered by the Liberals. The problem is as long as the Liberals can justify fighting an election on name recognition they will have no motivation to change and for the sake of Canadians they need to. They need to become a party that is accountable, economically intelligent, and in favour of the social policy of liberty, rather then the social policy of promises.

While the poll may not reflect what will happen come the next election, it is still depressing. Because the Liberals went to their convetion acting like children begging for their baby rattle back, displayed the baby rattle tendancy throughout the convention, and left with the reward of increased popular support from Canadians indicating they want to give it back to the same party they took it away from.