No Change in Bye-elections

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061127/...federal_byelxns

The vote is down for the Tories in Ontario. Didn't change in Quebec.

[jbg]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061127/...federal_byelxns

The vote is down for the Tories in Ontario. Didn't change in Quebec.

Wasn't that expected in those ridings?

[jdobbin]

Wasn't that expected in those ridings?

Tories were expecting to make gains at least percentage-wise. Some thought they could win in Ontario.

In Quebec, they hoped that recognizing Quebec would help them make gains in the vote. It didn't.

[geoffrey]

In Quebec, they hoped that recognizing Quebec would help them make gains in the vote. It didn't.

Perhaps it did... maybe they had lost that much previously.

[normanchateau]

Wasn't that expected in those ridings?

Tories were expecting to make gains at least percentage-wise. Some thought they could win in Ontario.

They didn't even come second in Ontario.

[geoffrey]

I bet the Republican warmacht was supporting that yankee May... right?!

Or is it only conservative Americans that we need be concerned about?

[Canadian Blue]

Vote really didn't suprise me, the Liberal's actually lost support in London North Center if you look at the results. As well it was a three way race between the Liberal, Green, and Conservative. I was hoping the Green party would win in Ontario, we need a more moderate progressive party which can be an alternative to divisive politics of the NDP.

[scribblet]

Part of the problem is complanency and the fact that only 40% came out. This was a string Liberal Seat and the Greens increased their vote because it was able to get its people out, also heard they ran a very good campaign.

[MightyAC]

She took five times the vote that the Greens got last January and siphoned votes from all the other parties in fashioning her strong challenge.

The Conservatives and the NDP were well back in the riding, which has been a Liberal seat for two decades.

Way to go Liz. Moving from 4th to second and increasing vote totals by 5x is excellent, especially in a very divided riding that has been red for 2 decades.

The results are another example of how dysfunctional our electoral system is though. The riding of London North Centre now has 1 Liberal voice despite the fact that 65% of voters supported a different party. Talk about wasted votes and lack of representation.

[Shakeyhands]

I bet the Republican warmacht was supporting that yankee May... right?!

Or is it only conservative Americans that we need be concerned about?

I've been doing alot of thinking on this one Geoffrey, it will be very interesting to see how the speech goes, but it does bother me a bit that there are questions based on this, I do believe it would be a huge issue if the CPC invited a Republican here to speak, I wonder, and this isn't the proper thread to discuss this, if it isnt' because the Democrates more closely reflect what most see as Canadian values?

[normanchateau]

we need a more moderate progressive party which can be an alternative to divisive politics of the NDP.

If so, we also need a more moderate conservative party, preferably one which is fiscally but not socially conservative. Only Harper's party favours permanent criminal records for possession of a few grams of marijuana.

And if you really do view the Greens as more moderate, how do you feel about their platform to outright legalize marijuana and tax it like alcohol? Even the NDP platform hasn't progressed beyond decriminalization though some individual NDP members favour legalization.

[MightyAC]

Overall the Greens are pretty moderate. I support most of their platform, but I too would rather see decriminalization than legalization with regulation and taxation.

Links to their platform: Mary Jane policy is number 106

Word Doc

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Plat...c#_Toc123981996

Acrobat

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Platform_2006.pdf

[scribblet]

Vote really didn't suprise me, the Liberal's actually lost support in London North Center if you look at the results. As well it was a three way race between the Liberal, Green, and Conservative. I was hoping the Green party would win in Ontario, we need a more moderate progressive party which can be an alternative to divisive politics of the NDP.

What do you mean by a 'progressive party', the Tories are progressive conservatives? If you are talking about a middle of the road party isn't that supposed to be the Liberals? Also I believe the NDP lost votes too.

The CPC party today and Harper is certainly far more moderate than was predicted (all the doom and gloom hasn't materialized) if you read MLW it starts out with; the movement towards a more moderate Conservative Party under Harper carries with it both opportunities and risks... and afterall, he is a graduate of economics.

CTV.ca article said.... Harper has now remade himself as a Conservative moderate etc. etc.

Harper is and always has been a fiscal conservative and is running a risk of alienating some of the social conservatives. Look at their policies, a hard core social conservatives wouldn't promise not to discuss abortions, or fully support national health care among other things. Actually so far what were are seeing these days is Liberal lite. The only thing that could be considered a 'socon' issue is SSM, and at that, he has only promised to vote on whether to re-open the issue, nothing more.

Did you know that Trudeau was one of the young Stephen Harper's earliest political inspirations, in fact. he (Harper) actually joined the Liberal student club a friend founded in the mid-1970s at Richview Collegiate in Etobicoke.

[MightyAC]

What do you mean by a 'progressive party', the Tories are progressive conservatives?

No, the Tories were progressive conservatives and the Reform/Alliance were social conservatives. The new combination is neither conservative enough for reformers nor progressive enough for the PCers.

I was once happy with the fiscally conservative yet socially progressive, well at least not regressive, policies of the PC party. The added social baggage of the Reform side means the party is no longer a good fit for me and many others. Similarly, the move to hide or at least bind and gag the social agenda means the party is upsetting the reformers. PMSH is doing a good job to walk on eggshells and appease both sides but I don't think it can go on indefinitely.

It would be like trying to combine the Liberals and the NDP and make both sides happy...it just doesn't work. As soon as the CPC is sent back to opposition a movement will build to recreate a party that is a better fit for one half of the right. It will take awhile but slowly the party will loose support to another right wing option...just as the PC party did not long ago. The two halfs then split the vote ensuring Liberal majorities. In an attempt to win an unholy alliance was formed...the problem is the two party situation wasn't the problem, the electoral system is broken.

If we only had proportional rep the party could revert back to its Reform and PC pieces with each party receiving the correct amount of representation.

[Technocrat]

I lived in London North Center for roughly 20 years. The Conservative candidate was about the worst possible person that party could have chosen. Dianne Haskett was a pretty pathetic mayor(London has had a string of them) and really did not engage the voters during her campaign. The area is mostly suburban and fairly wealthy, basically the kind of place that the conservatives could make inroads. Not listening or engaging in your potential constituents is a foolish move IMHO.

[normanchateau]

Overall the Greens are pretty moderate. I support most of their platform, but I too would rather see decriminalization than legalization with regulation and taxation.

Links to their platform: Mary Jane policy is number 106

Word Doc

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Plat...c#_Toc123981996

Acrobat

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Platform_2006.pdf

Thanks for the link. It confirms that the Greens favour outright legalization with taxation and regulation. This will be a hard sell with most of Canada favouring decriminalization. Harper continues to marginalize the Conservatives with his so-con policy of permanent criminal records and even jail sentences for possession of a few grams.

[White Doors]

Overall the Greens are pretty moderate. I support most of their platform, but I too would rather see decriminalization than legalization with regulation and taxation.

Links to their platform: Mary Jane policy is number 106

Word Doc

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Plat...c#_Toc123981996

Acrobat

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Platform_2006.pdf

Thanks for the link. It confirms that the Greens favour outright legalization with taxation and regulation. This will be a hard sell with most of Canada favouring decriminalization. Harper continues to marginalize the Conservatives with his so-con policy of permanent criminal records and even jail sentences for possession of a few grams.

That is not correct. you will not get a criminal record for simple posession and if you do get a criminal offence you can apply for a pardon like everyone else.

[Canadian Blue]

I agree we need to change the way we elect politician's. Especially considering the results of the recent by-election where 65% of the vote was simply wasted. Stephen Harper has done a good job at trying to be moderate enough for the old PC's and Reformers, however it won't last forever. I think PR is still the best system, it would allow coalition's which mean's finding solution's which can be acceptable to either side.

I actually prefer a minority government over a majority, because this will force a government to be accountable, and not to abuse power. Harper obviously isn't doing that terrible of a job if he has been able to remain PM. I also think most Canadian's would rather wait for an election.

Lets face it, the sky hasn't fallen yet.......

As for the Liberal's claiming total victory, the conservatives still came in second in Quebec. These by-election results really don't give much of anything to celebrate for anybody except the Green Party. In Repentigny the Liberal's came in fourth place with 6.20% behind the New Democrats.

[normanchateau]

Harper obviously isn't doing that terrible of a job if he has been able to remain PM.

That's one interpretation. The other interpretation is that he has remained PM merely because the Liberals have yet to select a leader. I anticipate an election in 2007. Harper has offended far too many groups. Getting re-elected will require more than support from so-cons and militarists.

[MightyAC]

I agree we need to change the way we elect politician's. Especially considering the results of the recent by-election where 65% of the vote was simply wasted. ... I think PR is still the best system, it would allow coalition's which mean's finding solution's which can be acceptable to either side.

I too prefer PR systems and coalition governments. Under any PR system majorities can still be won but at least 50% or more of the vote is required. Coalition governments don't always "find solutions acceptable to either side" but anything passed by a proportional government has the support of mps that represent at least 50% + 1 of the voting population...and that is way better than what we have right now.

As was shown by the vote on Quebec becoming a nation MPs do not always vote how their constituents would like them to though....but I don't know of an effective way to prevent that. I guess opponents of those MPs just have to remind voters how their incumbent voted during the next election campaign.

Which system of PR would best suit Canada, if any form of PR would suit at all, is a sensitive issue. It's also one that deserves its own thread. It was debated in a half-assed fashion under the topic "Help Ensure a fair referendum in Ontario"... a topic that began with me illegally trying to create awareness of the referendum in Ontario…whoops. I'm sure PR and Electoral reform has been discussed in many other threads as well.

[jbg]

I too prefer PR systems and coalition governments. Under any PR system majorities can still be won but at least 50% or more of the vote is required. Coalition governments don't always "find solutions acceptable to either side" but anything passed by a proportional government has the support of mps that represent at least 50% + 1 of the voting population...and that is way better than what we have right now.

Coalitions are also great excuses for non-performance. The leader of the equivalent to the majority party, the party with the most members elected, can always ask the voters "how many times do you want to go to the polls in a year" for not pushing their alleged "agenda".

[MightyAC]

Coalitions are also great excuses for non-performance. The leader of the equivalent to the majority party, the party with the most members elected, can always ask the voters "how many times do you want to go to the polls in a year" for not pushing their alleged "agenda".

I think the idea that the opposition can topple the government is absurd anyway. IMO, if a coalition government is elected it should remain in place for a full 4 year term. That removes the constant campaigning, the threat of an election as leverage and forces parties to build bridges to get anything accomplished.