Nothing sums up how I feel better

[Saturn]

Heather is bang on when it comes to how I feel about Rona Ambrose tarnishing Canada's reputation on the international stage:

My reaction to Canada making a fool of itself at the UN Climate Conference in Nairobi is neither public-spirited nor high-minded. I am instead profoundly personally embarrassed. I am simmering in a broth of shame.

I know what you're saying. This feeling is so boomer, so "me, me, me." Which coincidentally matches so-called Environment Minister Rona Ambrose's version of what Canada officially thinks of cutting greenhouse gas emissions. Why does Canada have to keep its promises when, like, the Americans aren't going to clean their room ever? she asks an aghast international audience. No fair.

Since when does Canada behave like a teenager on the international stage? Canada's greatest resource is its international reputation. How much damage has this out-of-fashion paleo-con Tory government done? Canada looks like a hick with tooth stumps blackened by crystal meth.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_mallick/20061120.html

What truly amazes me is that people will talk about what the Liberals didn't do in the past (in the letters). Honestly, who cares what they did or didn't do? This is all in the past and the past cannot be changed. What can be changed is the future and government policy is set by the current government we have, not by a past government that we don't have.

When will people get the idea that when our and our children's future is at stake, there is no room for pointing fingers, there is no room for politics, because if we keep doing that, there will be no room left for action when it's too late? What the hell is wrong with people? Why are the profits of oil companies more important to some people than their own lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren? Or are they just assuming that nothing bad will happen during their lifetime and who cares what happens after that?

[geoffrey]

No, it's just hard to take advice from complete failures.

[Canuck E Stan]

Heather is bang on when it comes to how I feel about Rona Ambrose tarnishing Canada's reputation on the international stage:

What truly amazes me is that people will talk about what the Liberals didn't do in the past (in the letters). Honestly, who cares what they did or didn't do? This is all in the past and the past cannot be changed. What can be changed is the future and government policy is set by the current government we have, not by a past government that we don't have.

When will people get the idea that when our and our children's future is at stake, there is no room for pointing fingers, there is no room for politics, because if we keep doing that, there will be no room left for action when it's too late? What the hell is wrong with people? Why are the profits of oil companies more important to some people than their own lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren? Or are they just assuming that nothing bad will happen during their lifetime and who cares what happens after that?

Nice speech,but just another useless complainer.

I've asked this question before, what is YOUR solution to the problem.

Oh sure,wine about Rona, wine about all this taking too long to fix, but what is YOUR solution?

This government is starting a process,it will take time.Don't like it,ammend the program, They will listen.

YOU want it now, well complainer,this won't be solved now,it won't be solved in ten years,it won't be solved in twenty years,and it won't be solved in thirty years.

So forget about it ending in YOUR life-time. The process has to start, and Rona is starting it now.

Every day the opposition rejects the plan is another day the plan is not started.Don't like it,present a solution.

Get off your pity-the-government-is-too-slow mentality and get it moving.

I hear you bitching,I don't hear you offering a solution.

Same old useless complaining about something you have nothing to offer.

Electing another government's will not make a difference in YOUR lifetime. Face reality.

[Saturn]

Heather is bang on when it comes to how I feel about Rona Ambrose tarnishing Canada's reputation on the international stage:

What truly amazes me is that people will talk about what the Liberals didn't do in the past (in the letters). Honestly, who cares what they did or didn't do? This is all in the past and the past cannot be changed. What can be changed is the future and government policy is set by the current government we have, not by a past government that we don't have.

When will people get the idea that when our and our children's future is at stake, there is no room for pointing fingers, there is no room for politics, because if we keep doing that, there will be no room left for action when it's too late? What the hell is wrong with people? Why are the profits of oil companies more important to some people than their own lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren? Or are they just assuming that nothing bad will happen during their lifetime and who cares what happens after that?

Nice speech,but just another useless complainer.

I've asked this question before, what is YOUR solution to the problem.

Oh sure,wine about Rona, wine about all this taking too long to fix, but what is YOUR solution?

This government is starting a process,it will take time.Don't like it,ammend the program, They will listen.

YOU want it now, well complainer,this won't be solved now,it won't be solved in ten years,it won't be solved in twenty years,and it won't be solved in thirty years.

So forget about it ending in YOUR life-time. The process has to start, and Rona is starting it now.

Every day the opposition rejects the plan is another day the plan is not started.Don't like it,present a solution.

Get off your pity-the-government-is-too-slow mentality and get it moving.

I hear you bitching,I don't hear you offering a solution.

Same old useless complaining about something you have nothing to offer.

Electing another government's will not make a difference in YOUR lifetime. Face reality.

I suppose being a rude a*****e will solve the problem.

The solution is:

1) Close all coal burning plants. Replace them by solar/wind power and nuclear power.

2a) Implement mandatory emissions caps and controls on oil and gas producers similar to those that exist in Europe.

2b) Implement mandatory emissions caps and controls on all other industries.

3) Slap $1/littre tax on gasoline. Put the money collected from that tax in public transportation.

4) Slap heavy taxes on all gas guzzlers. Put the money collected into subsidies on fuel-efficient vehicles.

5) Ban the use of 2 stroke engines without cat. converters.

6) Ban the sale of appliances that draw electricity while turned off. Ban the sale of appliances that waste electricity while in use.

7) Implement regulations on all new construction (to satisfy minimum energy efficiency requirements)

This would be a good start and there is a whole lot more that can be done. And all of this can be done before 2012 and if it is done we could even meet our Kyoto targets or come pretty close anyway.

[Saturn]

No, it's just hard to take advice from complete failures.

You have no problem taking advice from the oil and gas industry do you?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

If you shut down every industry and source of man made emmissions on this planet it would not stop the effects already acting upon the environment from three centuries of industrialization. We have dumped lots of stuff into the atmosphere, the land and the water that wasn't there before and the earth is reacting to these things. Our climate is changing and no amount of effort will change that. Forget the blame game and start dealing with the real issues, adapting to the changes.

Granted that we should stop emmissions, but doing that means serious adverse impact to our society. We have made mistakes, and we need to learn from them. We can't change what has already happened but we can begin to mitigate the effects and we should. Having said all of that it will take individual effort to succeed. Without a vast majority of public support base change will not occur.

Its not industry's fault, we made the industries so its our own fault. Its not the governments fault because we elect the governments, its our fault. Its us that has to change, not them. When we change then they will change, not the other way around.

In Canada we need to start thinking about development, not economic but social. Look at the building of new communities for example. Why not grandfather existing business and development for now and legislate all new development to only proceed along green lines. Lets try residential development with internal power and heat production unique to the specific community. Geo-thermal loops can be created when incorporating infrastructure to the community. Utility corridors for heating and power lines can be coordinated in scale to requirements. Wind turbines can form borders for common grounds, and solar panels can be mandated into local building codes or community bylaws. There are lots of things that can be done that are not disruptive to existing business or residential areas. We need to think outside of the box to solve these problems.

[August1991]

How much damage has this out-of-fashion paleo-con Tory government done? Canada looks like a hick with tooth stumps blackened by crystal meth.

This Canadian is deeply humiliated.

That was one of the silliest and most adolescent rants that I've read in a long time. It even contained the Torontonian edge of looking down on an Albertan bumpkin.

Look, Saturn, a UN meeting in Nairobi about global warming that excludes all the major emitters (or emitters to be) is basically another UN meeting. That is, an occasion for alot of self-important government employees to fly first-class to five star hotels and measure their productivity by the number of meetings they attend.

I'm rather pleased to see a Canadian object to going down the Brussels path. That route will take us ultimately to the appearance of action but nothing else. A world where it's all about image:

Thank you, French minister Nelly Olin, for your public rebuke. She knows Canada better than Ambrose does. (And she comes from a country so cool it has just chosen the magnificent Ségolène Royal as Socialist leader. Liberté, égalité, sororité!)

[geoffrey]

No, it's just hard to take advice from complete failures.

You have no problem taking advice from the oil and gas industry do you?

If they provide me with my current standard of living, nope. They haven't failed, last time I checked, most oil industry folks are doing quite well with their objectives.

[Saturn]

If you shut down every industry and source of man made emmissions on this planet it would not stop the effects already acting upon the environment from three centuries of industrialization. We have dumped lots of stuff into the atmosphere, the land and the water that wasn't there before and the earth is reacting to these things. Our climate is changing and no amount of effort will change that. Forget the blame game and start dealing with the real issues, adapting to the changes.

Shut down every industry? Who the heck is talking about that (besides retarded Rona)?

We need energy, no matter what. It can be generated in a zillion ways and we happen to do it the most harmful way possible. F**k the oil industry. Replace them by solar energy industry and wind power industry. I have no problem driving a fuel efficient vehicle and my life won't be ruined by taking the bus. If someone won't be able to sleep knowing that his TV isn't using 100W while it's turned off, then let him lose sleep over it. I bet your energy efficient dishwasher, which uses 1/3 the power that some old piece of junk does, won't cause you to commit suicide. It's all about kissing the rears of industries that just don't want to be bothered to move a finger. Cause moving a finger would cost them 2 bucks right now. Who cares that 30 years down the road it will cost us 1000 times as much?

[Saturn]

No, it's just hard to take advice from complete failures.

You have no problem taking advice from the oil and gas industry do you?

If they provide me with my current standard of living, nope. They haven't failed, last time I checked, most oil industry folks are doing quite well with their objectives.

Last time I checked, most oil folks are near retirement and they will stick you with the consequences of their standard of living.

What's your standard of living anyway? You make a few million bucks a year or you barely make enough to buy a trailer in Fort Mc? You are probably one of those "average" Canadians who consider themselves wealthy and think that they'll be better off paying more taxes under a flat tax.

[geoffrey]

Last time I checked, most oil folks are near retirement and they will stick you with the consequences of their standard of living.

I've made myself a quite comfortable student because of oil and the wealth it's brought. It's not a bunch of retirees. Where are you going with that?

Are you one of those tree-huggers that predict a 20 year end to oil? Keep dreaming, oil is here to stay, and it's only going to be more profitable in the future.

Start appreciating those that pay for your country instead of trying to trip up Canada's ONLY economic success right now.

[Saturn]

Last time I checked, most oil folks are near retirement and they will stick you with the consequences of their standard of living.

I've made myself a quite comfortable student because of oil and the wealth it's brought. It's not a bunch of retirees. Where are you going with that?

Are you one of those tree-huggers that predict a 20 year end to oil? Keep dreaming, oil is here to stay, and it's only going to be more profitable in the future.

Start appreciating those that pay for your country instead of trying to trip up Canada's ONLY economic success right now.

Pff. Keep dreaming. I hardly need anyone's help to be comfortable. And of course, you are one of those 20 year old philosophers, who haven't done any work themselves and are living off their parents and off government subsidies.

Canada will do just fine without oil and gas. Last time I checked Toronto's economy is still larger than all of Alberta's. Oil makes up a tiny percentage of Canada's economy and all of that is in Alberta anyway. If it all goes, nobody outside of Alberta will even notice.

[geoffrey]

Pff. Keep dreaming. I hardly need anyone's help to be comfortable. And of course, you are one of those 20 year old philosophers, who haven't done any work themselves and are living off their parents and off government subsidies.

Canada will do just fine without oil and gas. Last time I checked Toronto's economy is still larger than all of Alberta's. Oil makes up a tiny percentage of Canada's economy and all of that is in Alberta anyway. If it all goes, nobody outside of Alberta will even notice.

Watch yourself, don't speak down to me. Sure, I'm in my twenties. Living off my parents? No, I've lived on my own since 17, never taken a dollar of government money my whole life. I earn upwards of $60k a year managing a group of people double my age in a company where I got the position based completely upon my ability (no daddy getting me the spot, I earned it).... while going to school full-time, so don't try me. I know how the system works, I get it. I'm not a 20 year old philosopher, I'm someone that has experienced relatively fantastic success in business and in life. You couldn't be more wrong.

Have you checked your numbers lately? Let me enlighten you, as you seem to be living in the typical Torontonian arrogance:

Median Income:

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a.htm

Ontario 2000: 55,700

Alberta 2000: 55,200

Sweet deal hey, your making more!!!

Then...

Ontario 2004: 62,500

Alberta 2004: 66,400

Ouch. Our growth is enourmous compared to Ontarios. And it continues.

Small-business

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/61F0...9XIE1997004.pdf

Per 10,000 population

Alberta: 480

Ontario: 347

Again... Ouch...

And lastly, and most importantly...

Real GDP

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ50.htm

Ontario 2000: 437 million

Alberta 2000: 123 million

Ontario 2004: 483 million

Alberta 2004: 145 million

Growth for Ontario over 4 years: 10.5%

Growth for Alberta over 4 years: 17.9%

Hmmmm... so Ontario's economy is barely struggling to keep up with the world, Alberta's is leading.

So yes, you need Alberta. We provide 4 times per capita more into equalisation than Ontario.

I hate to get into these Alberta v. Ontario pissing matches, but sometimes you need a little enlightenment amongst those Southern Ontarians.

[Saturn]

Pff. Keep dreaming. I hardly need anyone's help to be comfortable. And of course, you are one of those 20 year old philosophers, who haven't done any work themselves and are living off their parents and off government subsidies.

Canada will do just fine without oil and gas. Last time I checked Toronto's economy is still larger than all of Alberta's. Oil makes up a tiny percentage of Canada's economy and all of that is in Alberta anyway. If it all goes, nobody outside of Alberta will even notice.

Watch yourself, don't speak down to me. Sure, I'm in my twenties. Living off my parents? No, I've lived on my own since 17, never taken a dollar of government money my whole life. I earn upwards of $60k a year managing a group of people double my age in a company where I got the position based completely upon my ability (no daddy getting me the spot, I earned it).... while going to school full-time, so don't try me. I know how the system works, I get it. I'm not a 20 year old philosopher, I'm someone that has experienced relatively fantastic success in business and in life. You couldn't be more wrong.

Have you checked your numbers lately? Let me enlighten you, as you seem to be living in the typical Torontonian arrogance:

Median Income:

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a.htm

Ontario 2000: 55,700

Alberta 2000: 55,200

Sweet deal hey, your making more!!!

Then...

Ontario 2004: 62,500

Alberta 2004: 66,400

Ouch. Our growth is enourmous compared to Ontarios. And it continues.

Small-business

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/61F0...9XIE1997004.pdf

Per 10,000 population

Alberta: 480

Ontario: 347

Again... Ouch...

And lastly, and most importantly...

Real GDP

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ50.htm

Ontario 2000: 437 million

Alberta 2000: 123 million

Ontario 2004: 483 million

Alberta 2004: 145 million

Growth for Ontario over 4 years: 10.5%

Growth for Alberta over 4 years: 17.9%

Hmmmm... so Ontario's economy is barely struggling to keep up with the world, Alberta's is leading.

So yes, you need Alberta. We provide 4 times per capita more into equalisation than Ontario.

I hate to get into these Alberta v. Ontario pissing matches, but sometimes you need a little enlightenment amongst those Southern Ontarians.

I'm not a Southern Ontarian, so you can keep up the pissing match. Second, the government has been paying for you most of your life and your taxes over the next decade or two won't make up for your schooling, health-care and all the other services you've been getting. $60 grand - good for you, you may be able to afford one of those $300 grand 1 bedroom trailers at Fort Mc. You can give me all the stats on averages all you want, the fact is that Alberta has far more young working people than Ontario does. Ontario has more seniors (cause few in their right mind will retire in Alberta). Your growth doesn't mean anything because of runaway inflation. In real terms, growth in Alberta isn't any better. Finally, Mr. Oil Baron Bush will go in 2 years and so will his efforts in wreaking havoc in the Middle East - oil will drop back to $20 barrel, just the way it was before he got in and guess whose economy will go down the tubes? Alberta may be temporarily paying more into equalization but don't be surprised if you end up getting equalization. To have a solid economy, you need more than just oil.

Now don't snub others because at times others have done better than Alberta at other times Alberta has done better than others. In fact, NFLD had some years of huge economic growth but then the fish died and look where NFLD is now. 4-5 years is nothing in history. On top of that Alberta is hardly leading the world - communist China is growing at 10% per year. So don't get so eager to tell others how great you are because you have no idea what things will be like ten years down the road.

[hiti]

This government is starting a process,it will take time.Don't like it,ammend the program, They will listen.

Ah yes, they started a process alright. They canceled every program that the Liberal government started, canceled the government web site with all the history of Kyoto and what was being done to improve the environment and came out with their Hot... oops "Clean" Air Act that is a total farce.

But what this miserable "new" government didn't count on was that once something is on the internet, it leave a trail.

What did the Liberals really accomplish?

significantly reduce sulphur levels in diesel fuel; Since 2001, regulations have been implemented to cut down engine emissions of many pollutants such as particulate matter, nitrogen oxides and volatile organic compounds that come from on- and off-road vehicles, engines and the fuels that power them.

“These regulations set stringent new Canadian standards aligned with U.S. requirements,” added the Minister, “and by promoting the competitiveness of Canada’s refining industry, the approach is aligned under the Government of Canada’s Project Green, the broad environmental vision that links Canada’s economic competitiveness and prosperity to a sustainable future.” The regulations introduce controls on sulphur in non-road diesel fuel from the current unregulated level to a 500 milligrams per kilogram (mg / kg) limit in 2007 and a 15 mg/kg limit starting in 2010. This will result in about a 99% reduction in four years from the current, unregulated average level of sulphur in non-road diesel fuel.

Increasing our environmental performance; On clean air, we are moving ahead with our Ten Year Clean Air Agenda laid out in 2000, in order to minimize pollution, reduce transportation sector emissions, lower emissions from major industrial sources, improve pollutant reporting by industry, advance clean air science, and engage the public in finding solutions to clean air issues.

An Overview of Project Green

Canada Launches Project Green

"The Plan provides for Government of Canada investments...to fully realize the anticipated reductions of about 270 megatonnes.” David Emerson agreed with Project Green

So don't ever say the the Liberal government did nothing for the environment or couldn't meet it's Kyoto obligations cause they were on target to do both, although more needed to be done to meet the targets, and ain't nothin' that Steve can say or do that will change that piece of history.

[Higgly]

I agree with the Mallick article.

Canada made a commitment to a process which was international in scope. Now we are back to every man for himself. It is interesting to note that Harper's language in this has matched George Bush phrase for phrase over time. Instead of 'global warming', we now have 'climate change' - a Bush innovation.

[geoffrey]

I'm not a Southern Ontarian, so you can keep up the pissing match. Second, the government has been paying for you most of your life and your taxes over the next decade or two won't make up for your schooling, health-care and all the other services you've been getting. $60 grand - good for you, you may be able to afford one of those $300 grand 1 bedroom trailers at Fort Mc. You can give me all the stats on averages all you want, the fact is that Alberta has far more young working people than Ontario does. Ontario has more seniors (cause few in their right mind will retire in Alberta). Your growth doesn't mean anything because of runaway inflation. In real terms, growth in Alberta isn't any better. Finally, Mr. Oil Baron Bush will go in 2 years and so will his efforts in wreaking havoc in the Middle East - oil will drop back to $20 barrel, just the way it was before he got in and guess whose economy will go down the tubes? Alberta may be temporarily paying more into equalization but don't be surprised if you end up getting equalization. To have a solid economy, you need more than just oil.

Now don't snub others because at times others have done better than Alberta at other times Alberta has done better than others. In fact, NFLD had some years of huge economic growth but then the fish died and look where NFLD is now. 4-5 years is nothing in history. On top of that Alberta is hardly leading the world - communist China is growing at 10% per year. So don't get so eager to tell others how great you are because you have no idea what things will be like ten years down the road.

I would be every suprised to see us get equalisation, ever. During the darkest days of the 80's and with then NEP, Alberta was still paying more per capital into equalisation than Ontario.

Newfoundland has enormous potential, and they choose to squander it with an anti-business agenda. I'm sure the government wants to insure a cheap labour pool there or something, because it seems that the government's of Newfoundland try desperately to prevent businesses from growing and people from working.

China isn't a fantastic example. It's easy to grow 10% when your not a first world country.

I definitely see your point, and I'm one of the first to suggest that Alberta needs economic diversification. But the bigger economic issue in Canada is Ontario's struggling economy, it is the biggest in the country, and how we can fix that. Ontario is losing jobs, productivity has hardly grown in 5 years, one of the lowest productivity growths in the OECD. What are we going to do to fix it?

[Canadian Blue]

Canada made a commitment to a process which was international in scope. Now we are back to every man for himself. It is interesting to note that Harper's language in this has matched George Bush phrase for phrase over time. Instead of 'global warming', we now have 'climate change' - a Bush innovation.

I'm not even gonna get into that. He said something similar to Bush, so he must be a Bush clone.

Pff. Keep dreaming. I hardly need anyone's help to be comfortable. And of course, you are one of those 20 year old philosophers, who haven't done any work themselves and are living off their parents and off government subsidies.

Canada will do just fine without oil and gas. Last time I checked Toronto's economy is still larger than all of Alberta's. Oil makes up a tiny percentage of Canada's economy and all of that is in Alberta anyway. If it all goes, nobody outside of Alberta will even notice.

I highly doubt Canada would do "just fine" without oil and gas. Last time I heard those resources were helping the economy. I'm sure that people outside of Alberta will notice once they start realizing they don't have as much money from equalization.

[gerryhatrick]

I suppose being a rude a*****e will solve the problem.

The solution is:

1) Close all coal burning plants. Replace them by solar/wind power and nuclear power.

2a) Implement mandatory emissions caps and controls on oil and gas producers similar to those that exist in Europe.

2b) Implement mandatory emissions caps and controls on all other industries.

3) Slap $1/littre tax on gasoline. Put the money collected from that tax in public transportation.

4) Slap heavy taxes on all gas guzzlers. Put the money collected into subsidies on fuel-efficient vehicles.

5) Ban the use of 2 stroke engines without cat. converters.

6) Ban the sale of appliances that draw electricity while turned off. Ban the sale of appliances that waste electricity while in use.

7) Implement regulations on all new construction (to satisfy minimum energy efficiency requirements)

This would be a good start and there is a whole lot more that can be done. And all of this can be done before 2012 and if it is done we could even meet our Kyoto targets or come pretty close anyway.

Try not to take it personally, that is that posters MO. You can report abusive posts by clicking the report button.

I like your suggestions. There is a lot of action that can be taken immediately without the supposed descruction of economies that the deniers always chicken little about.

They just want to cloud and delay the issue. That is Rona Ambroses whole purpose. The more it can be clouded and delayed, the less likely will it impact the CPC in the next election. It's ALL abou the election for them now, and getting that precious majority. Screw Global Warming, I don't believe they even think it's a problem.

[B. Max]

This government is starting a process,it will take time.Don't like it,ammend the program, They will listen.

Ah yes, they started a process alright. They canceled every program that the Liberal government started, canceled the government web site with all the history of Kyoto and what was being done to improve the environment and came out with their Hot... oops "Clean" Air Act that is a total farce.

But what this miserable "new" government didn't count on was that once something is on the internet, it leave a trail.

What did the Liberals really accomplish?

significantly reduce sulphur levels in diesel fuel; Since 2001, regulations have been implemented to cut down engine emissions of many pollutants such as particulate matter, nitrogen oxides and volatile organic compounds that come from on- and off-road vehicles, engines and the fuels that power them.

“These regulations set stringent new Canadian standards aligned with U.S. requirements,” added the Minister, “and by promoting the competitiveness of Canada’s refining industry, the approach is aligned under the Government of Canada’s Project Green, the broad environmental vision that links Canada’s economic competitiveness and prosperity to a sustainable future.” The regulations introduce controls on sulphur in non-road diesel fuel from the current unregulated level to a 500 milligrams per kilogram (mg / kg) limit in 2007 and a 15 mg/kg limit starting in 2010. This will result in about a 99% reduction in four years from the current, unregulated average level of sulphur in non-road diesel fuel.

Increasing our environmental performance; On clean air, we are moving ahead with our Ten Year Clean Air Agenda laid out in 2000, in order to minimize pollution, reduce transportation sector emissions, lower emissions from major industrial sources, improve pollutant reporting by industry, advance clean air science, and engage the public in finding solutions to clean air issues.

An Overview of Project Green

Canada Launches Project Green

"The Plan provides for Government of Canada investments...to fully realize the anticipated reductions of about 270 megatonnes.” David Emerson agreed with Project Green

So don't ever say the the Liberal government did nothing for the environment or couldn't meet it's Kyoto obligations cause they were on target to do both, although more needed to be done to meet the targets, and ain't nothin' that Steve can say or do that will change that piece of history.

What a farce. The green plan, attack the three core industries that create all the wealth. Fro which nothing else would be possible. It should have been called the economic treason plan.

[B. Max]

It's ALL abou the election for them now, and getting that precious majority. Screw Global Warming, I don't believe they even think it's a problem.

Because it's not. It and its bastard child kyoto are a fraud.

[gerryhatrick]

Because it's not. It and it's bastard child kyoto are a fraud.

Yes B.Max, we know. Global Warming is a fraud. Just take it easy, it'll be Ok.

[blueblood]

Hmm. something i remember from a geology class back in the day, more like paleo oh well here goes, there have been ice ages and massive amounts of global warming all throughout geologic time. The amount of CO2 in the air in the Carboniferous was much much larger than it is now, but then it dropped. How you ask, the Earth has a way of naturally balancing everything out, so when its warm and theres lots of CO2 in the air more and more plants grow in areas that there weren't any plants and the oceans soak up more and more CO2, the opposite happens when there are dangerously low levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, so in the extreme long run this is just a minor blip on whats going on and why im not too worried about global warming.

[B. Max]

Because it's not. It and it's bastard child kyoto are a fraud.

Yes B.Max, we know. Global Warming is a fraud. Just take it easy, it'll be Ok.

Even your EU one worlders have said as much.

As it turns out, Kyoto's objective has nothing to do with saving the globe. In fact it is purely political. A case in point: French President Jacques Chirac said during a speech at The Hague in November of 2000 that Kyoto represents "the first component of an authentic global governance." So, I wonder: are the French going to be dictating U.S. policy?

Margot Wallstrom, the EU's Environment Commissioner, takes a slightly different view, but one that's instructive about the real motives of Kyoto proponents. She asserted that Kyoto is about "the economy, about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide."

Climate Change- July 28, 2003

http://inhofe.senate.gov/floorspeeches.htm

[gerryhatrick]

Because it's not. It and it's bastard child kyoto are a fraud.

Yes B.Max, we know. Global Warming is a fraud. Just take it easy, it'll be Ok.

Even your EU one worlders have said as much.

Yes B.Max, it's a hoax. Breath deep, everything will be fine.