madmax Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I'll take public auto insurance in a heartbeat. The sooner the better. Maybe you need to brush up on the understanding of insurance. No competition from many underwriters ?. Since underwriters have NO SAY in what the rates are (for auto ins) I am not sure of your post. Upsize to larger and larger buildings. Well, since that is investment money and the have a fiduciary duty to maximize profits , why not buy a larger bldg that may return more money to shareholders. But as I said much earlier, a lot of the blame should be on us in the industry. We have done a lousy job in educating the public. You guys would be astounded to see what the costs of collisions, thefts etc are. The next time you come across an accident, say one car runs a red and hits a third party , no loss of life, no serious injuries requiring hospital treatment, try and find out why this claim will likely climb to $30,000 to $40,000 before all is settled. Mindboggling is what it is. Lawsuits , there is another. Get sued on your homeowners policy? Go to court and you win means the ins co lawyers defending you were succesful . Great, but that cost the ins co somewhere above $20,000. (maybe fta lawyer can add) So, you recd $20,000 of protection for the cost of a homeowners policy that cost you maybe $600. Good bargain I say. As for 2500 - 4000 for one car in an urban setting....umm ....sorry bub. Not likely, not even based in reality IF based on , no tickets, prior record, no accidents, no driving to work. Maybe you are thinking commercial insurance. Either way, hope for govt run insurance......it wi9ll never happen in Ont. The govt doesn't want to get into it as they make money now from ins co. You would change your turn in time. Having spent my time dealing with the Ontario Insurance Board, Corrupt insurance companies breaking laws, creating policies that consumers have no idea break the law, and even having to bend to my principles in order to get insurance just because I get sick and tired of fighting these battles, I really don't need or want to brush up on Auto Insurance. You are clearly an Auto Insurance Apologist, spewing the company line. Regardless, your general disregard of the prices of insurance in Ontario, with clean record shows, that you may know your market, but you don't know Ontarios. Your posts requires some cheese to go with the whine. Cry all the way to the bank. I merely stated that you have a good rate, I stated my dislike of insurance companies. I know that they make record profits. I also know they don't follow the law, and that it is chronic and happens everyday, because they are not challenged and that they often behave like spoiled brats. I was not attacking you, I don't know you, but to call me bub, is, quite frankly, disrespectful. Which is exactly what I would expect from someone in the insurance market. And no, I don't expect Ontario to see Public Auto Insurance. That's why many sites that talk about Auto Insurance in Ontario, always have a link to anusol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I'll take public auto insurance in a heartbeat. The sooner the better. Maybe you need to brush up on the understanding of insurance. No competition from many underwriters ?. Since underwriters have NO SAY in what the rates are (for auto ins) I am not sure of your post. Upsize to larger and larger buildings. Well, since that is investment money and the have a fiduciary duty to maximize profits , why not buy a larger bldg that may return more money to shareholders. But as I said much earlier, a lot of the blame should be on us in the industry. We have done a lousy job in educating the public. You guys would be astounded to see what the costs of collisions, thefts etc are. The next time you come across an accident, say one car runs a red and hits a third party , no loss of life, no serious injuries requiring hospital treatment, try and find out why this claim will likely climb to $30,000 to $40,000 before all is settled. Mindboggling is what it is. Lawsuits , there is another. Get sued on your homeowners policy? Go to court and you win means the ins co lawyers defending you were succesful . Great, but that cost the ins co somewhere above $20,000. (maybe fta lawyer can add) So, you recd $20,000 of protection for the cost of a homeowners policy that cost you maybe $600. Good bargain I say. As for 2500 - 4000 for one car in an urban setting....umm ....sorry bub. Not likely, not even based in reality IF based on , no tickets, prior record, no accidents, no driving to work. Maybe you are thinking commercial insurance. Either way, hope for govt run insurance......it wi9ll never happen in Ont. The govt doesn't want to get into it as they make money now from ins co. You would change your turn in time. Having spent my time dealing with the Ontario Insurance Board, Corrupt insurance companies breaking laws, creating policies that consumers have no idea break the law, and even having to bend to my principles in order to get insurance just because I get sick and tired of fighting these battles, I really don't need or want to brush up on Auto Insurance. You are clearly an Auto Insurance Apologist, spewing the company line. Regardless, your general disregard of the prices of insurance in Ontario, with clean record shows, that you may know your market, but you don't know Ontarios. Your posts requires some cheese to go with the whine. Cry all the way to the bank. I merely stated that you have a good rate, I stated my dislike of insurance companies. I know that they make record profits. I also know they don't follow the law, and that it is chronic and happens everyday, because they are not challenged and that they often behave like spoiled brats. I was not attacking you, I don't know you, but to call me bub, is, quite frankly, disrespectful. Which is exactly what I would expect from someone in the insurance market. And no, I don't expect Ontario to see Public Auto Insurance. That's why many sites that talk about Auto Insurance in Ontario, always have a link to anusol. I have a nice Merlot I will open tonight in your honour. Now if you are offended by the term bub I will apologize. An apologist for the industry? Wow...you dont know me then. I will state what on the surface seems to be approval of the industry, but with analysis you will find I dont. However, if in fact you deal with the Ontario Insurance Board , why would you put in print erroneous information? Perhaps I should just come out and call your bluff ? I guess I just did. So , give me some stories how they break the law? And in fact I am not all that fond of Ins Co's myself. Thats why it is good to have me on your side fighting for you. So I don't know the Ontario market? The mere fact that I am in the middle of the most expensive auto insurance market in the country (Toronto) means I do know. I have insureds up in Thunder Bay, Sudbury , Ottawa, Huntsville , Guelph, Windsor and London, so I do know the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I have a nice Merlot I will open tonight in your honour. Now if you are offended by the term bub I will apologize. An apologist for the industry? Wow...you dont know me then. I will state what on the surface seems to be approval of the industry, but with analysis you will find I dont. However, if in fact you deal with the Ontario Insurance Board , why would you put in print erroneous information? Perhaps I should just come out and call your bluff ? I guess I just did. So , give me some stories how they break the law? And in fact I am not all that fond of Ins Co's myself. Thats why it is good to have me on your side fighting for you. So I don't know the Ontario market? The mere fact that I am in the middle of the most expensive auto insurance market in the country (Toronto) means I do know. I have insureds up in Thunder Bay, Sudbury , Ottawa, Huntsville , Guelph, Windsor and London, so I do know the market. Look, if your telling me everything is ok, and you have insurers, (insureds?) then perhaps you will send me a quote? I am on holiday, but clearly you ar working hard posting messages:-). Like I said, I just renewed my insurance on my old truck, but am happy to consider options on a new one. You are in Toronto, have a 4 year old vehicle with FULL coverage and pay less than me. My guess is you are much younger then me too. Infact, the last time I made a claim "No fault" didn't exist yet. I live rural, I am interested in quoting on a recent vehicle about 3 years old. I have a 6 driving record. I usually have more than one vehicle As for my dealings with the OIB that was in the mid 90s, I haven't misled anything, I can't speak of my own case, because of non disclosure. The whole BS about it, makes me sick. And if you want to know about those in the industry with regards to breaking the law, you only have to talk shop amongst yourselves, you don't need me. Insurance companies have to go after each other in order to self police. When it's me, I am just one person, but once they realize it affects them, well they wake up. But individuals don't know about these infractions, and I am not about to make a one man crusade against every law breaking insurance company. People break laws all the time, if you believe that the industry is any different, then open that Merlot and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Look, if your telling me everything is ok, and you have insurers, (insureds?) then perhaps you will send me a quote? I am on holiday, but clearly you ar working hard posting messages:-). Like I said, I just renewed my insurance on my old truck, but am happy to consider options on a new one. You are in Toronto, have a 4 year old vehicle with FULL coverage and pay less than me. My guess is you are much younger then me too. Infact, the last time I made a claim "No fault" didn't exist yet. I live rural, I am interested in quoting on a recent vehicle about 3 years old. I have a 6 driving record. I usually have more than one vehicle As for my dealings with the OIB that was in the mid 90s, I haven't misled anything, I can't speak of my own case, because of non disclosure. The whole BS about it, makes me sick. And if you want to know about those in the industry with regards to breaking the law, you only have to talk shop amongst yourselves, you don't need me. Insurance companies have to go after each other in order to self police. When it's me, I am just one person, but once they realize it affects them, well they wake up. But individuals don't know about these infractions, and I am not about to make a one man crusade against every law breaking insurance company. People break laws all the time, if you believe that the industry is any different, then open that Merlot and enjoy. Ok , I am readiong between the lines here and I think I understand you much better than I did on your ealrier post. Far enough sir, But I assure you I pay thru the nose for my insurance on a 2000 model. I am not happy with my rate. But send me a PM and I will provide you a quote. Model Year , make, your age, any tickets. what do you use the truck for ? Lets see me put my mouth where.....your money is? .....something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coot Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 So does Manitoba have the cheapest auto insurance rates in the country yet? From the Winnipeg Free Press: MPI will shrink Autopac rates for about half its customers and some will save almost 25 per cent. The provincial insurer announced this afternoon that it is freezing insurance rates in 2008, making it the ninth year out of ten that rates have been frozen or reduced. This time next year, MPI will hand out another rebate worth $49 million or an average about $90 per customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I dream of reasonable insurance. Under 25 Male. 'nough said. My sister, a few years younger than me and newly licensed pays 1/2 of what I do. I have 5 years of driving experience. Hmmmmmmm.... Where are the feminists to protect my gender discrimination at the hands of old corporate men in the boardroom?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Where are the feminists to protect my gender discrimination at the hands of old corporate men in the boardroom?! Looking at the rates and costs of accidents for single under 25 males and saying "damn, those boys are a bad group to insure." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Looking at the rates and costs of accidents for single under 25 males and saying "damn, those boys are a bad group to insure." I'm sure if I did a study and found that say (just a random example) that asians were more likely to get into accidents people would be outraged if the auto industry levied an Asian premium! Why the double standard on discrimination. Like I said, I have 5 years of clean driving, but I'm discriminated based on grounds that aren't even permitted in the competition act (gender, age is allowable, though ridiciulous). Sure, single under 25 males are an at risk group. So are drivers with depression (a depression premium). And those that use prescription sleeping medication. Ect. ect.. One day people will see it as a discriminatory money grab and not support it. Just takes one company. Note that nowhere above do I protest the companies' rights to charge whatever they want, I think they should do as they please. I'm just saying it's unjustified using their current reasoning and quite discriminatory. I still pay my insurance so I must be 'ok' with it enough to justify it. Not that it changes my opinion on the fairness of the measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I've heard that Saskatchewan had cheap auto insurance and maybe they do. But one person from there told me that registration of a car was $700 dollars. With fees like that maybe car insurance shouldn't be the only thing one should look at when evaluating auto costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coot Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I think in prairie-talk (or government-owned insurance lingo), car registration and insurance are the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I'm sure if I did a study and found that say (just a random example) that asians were more likely to get into accidents people would be outraged if the auto industry levied an Asian premium! Dont worry, in a roundabout way there already is one. Like I said, I have 5 years of clean driving, but I'm discriminated based on grounds that aren't even permitted in the competition act (gender, age is allowable, though ridiciulous). All rates and rules are government approved, but your point is valid to some degree. But I assure you when you get out of the under 25 group, you will be happier. Sure, single under 25 males are an at risk group. So are drivers with depression (a depression premium). And those that use prescription sleeping medication. Ect. ect.. Ahh...but did you know that is a question that is mandatory to ask? (among other med questions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I'm sure if I did a study and found that say (just a random example) that asians were more likely to get into accidents people would be outraged if the auto industry levied an Asian premium!Dont worry, in a roundabout way there already is one. Excellent, please explain. Like I said, I have 5 years of clean driving, but I'm discriminated based on grounds that aren't even permitted in the competition act (gender, age is allowable, though ridiciulous).All rates and rules are government approved, but your point is valid to some degree. But I assure you when you get out of the under 25 group, you will be happier. Happier for myself, yes. Not for everyone else that is treated unjustly. Like I said, it's completely arbitrary. I can define a huge number of groups of people that are higher risk and don't have specific premiums levied against them. Sure, single under 25 males are an at risk group. So are drivers with depression (a depression premium). And those that use prescription sleeping medication. Ect. ect..Ahh...but did you know that is a question that is mandatory to ask? (among other med questions) I did not know that. I was never asked as far as I can recall. -- How do you know so much? Were you the insurance guy, I can't remember if that was you. I'll throw a random one out there. Why is it cheaper on insurance for my brand new leased import (BMW 328i) then it was for my 2004 Cavalier?? It's only a $40 difference, but I was really suprised. I can promise anyone my risk on the BMW (that is leased so I could *potentially* drive it much harder/faster) is much higher than on the Cavalier. I walked into the insurance place expecting to get a quote of $300+/month but just under $200... what the hell is that about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I'm sure if I did a study and found that say (just a random example) that asians were more likely to get into accidents people would be outraged if the auto industry levied an Asian premium!Dont worry, in a roundabout way there already is one. Excellent, please explain. Should anyone applying not have prior insurance, they get dinged huge. This does in effect catch most Hong Kong immigrants as they tend not to drive until they immigrate.They are then stuck there for a few years until established. I can define a huge number of groups of people that are higher risk and don't have specific premiums levied against them. Actuaries can prove , and have to, the increased risk for a group. The rules are set by FSCO so while you may be able to, they are not large enough to justify, IMO> How do you know so much? Were you the insurance guy, I can't remember if that was you.I'll throw a random one out there. Why is it cheaper on insurance for my brand new leased import (BMW 328i) then it was for my 2004 Cavalier?? It's only a $40 difference, but I was really suprised. I can promise anyone my risk on the BMW (that is leased so I could *potentially* drive it much harder/faster) is much higher than on the Cavalier. I walked into the insurance place expecting to get a quote of $300+/month but just under $200... what the hell is that about? Yes thats me. The reason "may" be because of the typical Cav driver vs the BMW driver. When cars get into the luxury group and beyond, the risk for accident drops due to the diligence of the average lux car driver. THey park in better spots, usually have a garage to house it nightly, are a bit more anal about the care of the car and so on.IT gets reflected on the premiums, but beware, the Lux car gets enormous deductibles, and most pushing into the $2500 range. That saves money....well until you crack the sucker up. Another reason may be because you ventured into another risk group by earning another "star" on the 6 star rating programme. Many people compare year to year w/o seeing that they have been rewarded/penalized for anouther year clean/w accident, however the case may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Another reason may be because you ventured into another risk group by earning another "star" on the 6 star rating programme. Many people compare year to year w/o seeing that they have been rewarded/penalized for anouther year clean/w accident, however the case may be. Hey, if an insurance company is thinking that under 25 makes me higher risk than 30-something, but driving a BMW is less risky than a Cav... I think they've got some thinking to do. Not that I'm complaining (the BMW does stay indoors mind you, the Cav was outside... and I do park more carefully... so maybe you have a point... a point that may or may not disappear the second it leaves the city limits). I also heard it's cheaper to insure a leased car (dispite the financial waiver thingy). I think that's counter-intuitive too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Hey, if an insurance company is thinking that under 25 makes me higher risk than 30-something, but driving a BMW is less risky than a Cav... I think they've got some thinking to do.Not that I'm complaining (the BMW does stay indoors mind you, the Cav was outside... and I do park more carefully... so maybe you have a point... a point that may or may not disappear the second it leaves the city limits). I also heard it's cheaper to insure a leased car (dispite the financial waiver thingy). I think that's counter-intuitive too. The under 25 age group is charged higher premiums regardless of the car.In fact the car, all other things being equal , does not possess much higher risk at all. The acutarial tables present the scenario that an educated young man (<25) has an enormous financial future that must be paid for by the insurance company in the event of an catastrophic accident . Thus they are charged accordingly.( not to mention all the high risk acts they do) As for risky, the tables show a Bimmer driver is less a risk. Just more assholes drive them I keed I keed ! Leasing or buying is not considered in the rating tables. At least in Ont. I would doubt that it is used anywhere . I can think of no reason why it would increase or decrease any rate. You are quite right in the car is not much of a risk for an insurance company. That is what I call a static risk. The ins co knows immediately what that car is worth, so there is no suprise in a write-off . The risk is on the driver and all he/she encompasses. Wealth, salary, dependants, dependant care,rehab and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 The risk is on the driver and all he/she encompasses. Wealth, salary, dependants, dependant care,rehab and so on. I suppose that makes sense. If an educated young person has a higher acturial risk, do insurance companies charge university grads more than high school drop outs? Wouldn't that make more sense than a blanket under 25 rate (not that it would help me any). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 The risk is on the driver and all he/she encompasses. Wealth, salary, dependants, dependant care,rehab and so on. I suppose that makes sense. If an educated young person has a higher acturial risk, do insurance companies charge university grads more than high school drop outs? Wouldn't that make more sense than a blanket under 25 rate (not that it would help me any). I know what you are asking.....so let me throw this back at you. You live in Alberta....tell me what a 24 yr old dropout who has trade papers (or likekind) makes in your province? Huge bucks, and may be making more money than a Grad doing different work. An P.Eng makes less than a oil rig guy, out of the box that is. And that is the crux. Because so many young people have not found the niche they want, they are treated as one group. It does change in older years as one will have established a benchmark for worth. Some of my high school drop out friends went to amazing heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 You live in Alberta....tell me what a 24 yr old dropout who has trade papers (or likekind) makes in your province? Huge bucks, and may be making more money than a Grad doing different work. Fair enough. That makes alot of sense I suppose, in the big picture. -- I've switched my last commerce option (almost done!) to Risk Management and Insurance because of this conversation... I'm far too undereducated in this for my line of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 You live in Alberta....tell me what a 24 yr old dropout who has trade papers (or likekind) makes in your province? Huge bucks, and may be making more money than a Grad doing different work. Fair enough. That makes alot of sense I suppose, in the big picture. -- I've switched my last commerce option (almost done!) to Risk Management and Insurance because of this conversation... I'm far too undereducated in this for my line of work. You better have No-Doze by the case. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 You better have No-Doze by the case. Good luck. I got through corporate risk management (all that directors liability stuff) no problem. This can't possibly be that much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMel Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 If you want to learn more about ICBC please read my shocking story: http://icbc.hobby-site.com/ Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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