Indian Affairs Minister Opposes Smoking Ban

[jdobbin]

http://cjob.com/news/index.aspx?src=loc&am...l&rem=51379

Prentice was making a speech in Winnipeg for the Progressive Conservative general meeting.

The courts in Manitoba recently said that the law could not allow smoking on a reserve bar or casino but not allow it for the rest of the province.

[margrace]

It would be interesting to know how much Prentice benefits from this stand.

[jdobbin]

It would be interesting to know how much Prentice benefits from this stand.

I wonder if he has jurisdiction over smoking in a province.

[Ricki Bobbi]

This is a good test in how committed people are to the concept of aboriginal self-government.

If bands are to govern themselves that should also include the opportunity to choose how to govern where people can smoke on the reserves.

Seems like this will be a popular decision with native groups. Huh, imagine that a Minister of Indian Affairs making a decision that is overwhelmingly supported by natives.

[scribblet]

It would be interesting to know how much Prentice benefits from this stand.

Financially - nothing - politically - guess it depend on where you stand, natives will thank him I'm sure.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Financially - nothing - politically - guess it depend on where you stand, natives will thank him I'm sure.

This is a good situation for Prentice. Where the right thing to do meets with the politically shrewd thing to do.

Natives lean Liberal. This coiuld help swing some votes to the Conservatives.

[scribblet]

I think he is being politically correct, and as i say this I'm off to the rez (close by) to get cigarettes at $15.00 for 200 for my son.... I'd rather he didn't smoke but at least it saves him money.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I think he is being politically correct, and as i say this I'm off to the rez (close by) to get cigarettes at $15.00 for 200 for my son.... I'd rather he didn't smoke but at least it saves him money.

Poltically correct?

Don't see how arguing *for* making smoking available in a public place is politically correct in any estimation.

[Riverwind]

This is a good situation for Prentice. Where the right thing to do meets with the politically shrewd thing to do.

Kind of ironic considering the number of votes the tory lost standing up for the prinicipal that gov't should not use regulation to give one business an unfair advantage over others when it came to income trusts

This is a good example of why self-gov't will be eventually rejected by the majority of urban voters. It is one thing to say that natives should be allowed to govern themselves. It is another thing to say that they should be allowed to have a different regulatory environment that undermines regulations that the majority of voters in a region want.

We have a band in the lower mainland that burns garbarge creating a huge pollution problem for its neighbors.

[scribblet]

I think he is being politically correct, and as i say this I'm off to the rez (close by) to get cigarettes at $15.00 for 200 for my son.... I'd rather he didn't smoke but at least it saves him money.

Poltically correct?

Don't see how arguing *for* making smoking available in a public place is politically correct in any estimation.

It is politically correct to pander to the natives and not give in, nor apply what is good for the country to them. In this case he's avoiding confrontation, as is McGuinty in Ontario over Caledonia. Nobody wants to take a stand on native issues.

[Ricki Bobbi]

It is politically correct to pander to the natives and not give in, nor apply what is good for the country to them. In this case he's avoiding confrontation, as is McGuinty in Ontario over Caledonia. Nobody wants to take a stand on native issues.

Pandering?

Hmmm, seems like the same old paternalism to the natives. "If they can't understand what is in their best interests the white man should enforce it on them."

Self-government should be just that. Including the opportunity to make decisions of this nature for their communities.

I'm not familiar with the situation in Manitoba but I know there is really nobody hurt by smoking in the new native casino just outside Edmonton. All of the casinos in the city are smoke-free. Because of the employment market they are all crying for staff. If smoking is such a big deal to the staff they can work in a casino in the city. If smoking is such a big deal to the players they can play in a casino in the city.

The native band on the Enoch nation (just outside Edmonton) saw it as a strategic choice to allow smoking in the casino.

Allowing native self-government means allowing decisions we don't necessarily agree with.

[Riverwind]

Hmmm, seems like the same old paternalism to the natives. "If they can't understand what is in their best interests the white man should enforce it on them."

It is not that at all. Allowing on reserve businesses to allow smoking screws off reserve businesses that are not allowed to so. If native reserves want to have free trade with the communities that surround them then they must be prepared to accept regulations set by the community around them. If they want to be free to have whatever business regulations they want then they better be prepared to have customs booths at the border of their reserves

[jdobbin]

It is not that at all. Allowing on reserve businesses to allow smoking screws off reserve businesses that are not allowed to so. If native reserves want to have free trade with the communities that surround them then they must be prepared to accept regulations set by the community around them.

Gaming is regulated by the province in Manitoba. I don't know how it is elsewhere. If the self-government means any type of law, why not a brothel?

[B. Max]

In the end this all comes down the loss of business from the smoking bans. The city of Edmonton tried to make the new casino at Enoch go non smoking before they would let them hook onto city water because the city casino's were up arms. The last I heard Enoch said they would have both smoking and non smoking. As far as I know Edmonton is the only place in the province that bans smoking everywhere.

[Riverwind]

Gaming is regulated by the province in Manitoba. I don't know how it is elsewhere. If the self-government means any type of law, why not a brothel?

Or an opium den?

[jdobbin]

Or an opium den?

Provincial laws do apply to reserves. I think the courts will eventually assert that smoking laws can be set by the provinces.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Gaming is regulated by the province in Manitoba. I don't know how it is elsewhere. If the self-government means any type of law, why not a brothel?

Gaming is a provincial jurisdiction. Smoking by-laws are municipal. In Alberta you can smoke in Calgary casinos, but not Edmonton.

That is a pretty weak analogy with the brothel. Prostitutiion isn't legal *anywhere* in the country and never has been. Smoking laws are a patchwork.

The City of Edmonton tried to push it on the Band, but they have a pretty weak case. The casino isn't within the city limits.

Still reeks of the paternalistic white man telling the ignorant indians how to run their bands. They saw a strategic business opportunity here. Power to them for trying to make money.

[Riverwind]

Still reeks of the paternalistic white man telling the ignorant indians how to run their bands. They saw a strategic business opportunity here. Power to them for trying to make money.

I agree with you argument that banning smoking on reserve does not make sense if the law is a municipal law rather than a provincial law. However, smoking bans can be imposed by a province at which point the natives should comply. Do you agree? If you don't agree then who decides what regulations must apply to reserves and which ones they can ignore?

[jdobbin]

I agree with you argument that banning smoking on reserve does not make sense if the law is a municipal law rather than a provincial law. However, smoking bans can be imposed by a province at which point the natives should comply. Do you agree? If you don't agree then who decides what regulations must apply to reserves and which ones they can ignore?

Gaming and smoking are provincially regulated in Manitoba just as driving and licensing are provincially run. It isn't driven by specific to any one group or people but to all.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I agree with you argument that banning smoking on reserve does not make sense if the law is a municipal law rather than a provincial law. However, smoking bans can be imposed by a province at which point the natives should comply. Do you agree? If you don't agree then who decides what regulations must apply to reserves and which ones they can ignore?

Gaming and smoking are provincially regulated in Manitoba just as driving and licensing are provincially run. It isn't driven by specific to any one group or people but to all.

Are you sure about the smoking bans being a matter of provincial jurisdiction in Manitoba? Doesn't make sense to me. Gaming, driving and licensing are provincial jurisdictions everywhere. I know that smoking is a matter of municipal by-laws in Ontario and Alberta so I find it odd that Manitoba would be different.

[Riverwind]

Are you sure about the smoking bans being a matter of provincial jurisdiction in Manitoba? Doesn't make sense to me. Gaming, driving and licensing are provincial jurisdictions everywhere. I know that smoking is a matter of municipal by-laws in Ontario and Alberta so I find it odd that Manitoba would be different.

Municipalities have no constitutional status - they are creations of the province and subject to whatever rules the province sets. Smoking bylaws are typically passed by cities today, however, there is nothing that can stop a province from passing a similar law.

[jdobbin]

Municipalities have no constitutional status - they are creations of the province and subject to whatever rules the province sets. Smoking bylaws are typically passed by cities today, however, there is nothing that can stop a province from passing a similar law.

B.C. is about to set a provincial law in place.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061104/..._c__smoking_ban

Manitoba's law is province-wide. There is no exceptions for any municipality. It is the first province to have a provincial ban.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/03/03/..._ban040303.html

[Ricki Bobbi]

B.C. is about to set a provincial law in place.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061104/..._c__smoking_ban

Manitoba's law is province-wide. There is no exceptions for any municipality. It is the first province to have a provincial ban.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/03/03/..._ban040303.html

OK, so the native casino is under Federal, not Provincial jurisdiction so it is Prentice's decision to make.

The smoking ban will not include outdoor patios, hotel rooms, and areas under federal jurisdiction such as military bases, federal prisons and aboriginal reserves.

I thought smoking bylaws were a municipal jurisdiction because, as the CBC story says, ther is currently no provincial ban on smoking anywher ein the country.

[geoffrey]

I don't know why the protest. I'm from Calgary, and I'm not a big fan of the big blue cloud of smoke hovering around the bars.

I was up in Banff and Canmore this weekend, and low and behold, the air was breathable in bars because smoking is banned. Why not?

Smokers can go outside, can they not? They should have to at least pay for their negative externality on others, if they subsidized drink prices for non-smokers or something, that'd be nice.

What does our resident anarchist say on the matter? I can see a libertarian stand either way on the issue.

[Ricki Bobbi]

What does our resident anarchist say on the matter? I can see a libertarian stand either way on the issue.

Who is that?