ISRAEL, PALESTINE, AND CANADA

[Argus]

Really, they completely pulled out of Gaza and got rocket attacks for thanks.

Israel had no choice but to pull out of Gaza. The cost of defending a handful of settlers was horrendous, and even an idiot like Sharon had to recognize that Gaza is completely unmanageable.

How many people have those rockets killed? Say compared to the constant extra-judicial helicopter gunship assassinations that Israel now carries out as an almost daily routine....

How many Jews do you think must be permitted to die before Israel takes action against Palestinian terrorists? I mean, is there a mathematical formula? Do they have to count up to a certain number before they can go over and blow up some bomb factory and shoot down some terrorist organizer? And then they have to do nothing, no matter what their intelligence tells them is being planned, until a certain number of Jews die again so they are once more free to take action?

[Higgly]

Not surprised you'd duck the question Argus. No Israelis have died because of those pathetic little rockets. Here's one for you...

How many Palestinains have to die before the Israelis look in the mirror one day and see a funny little guy with a funny little moustache?

[cybercoma]

Not surprised you'd duck the question Argus. No Israelis have died because of those pathetic little rockets. Here's one for you...

How many Palestinains have to die before the Israelis look in the mirror one day and see a funny little guy with a funny little moustache?

http://daledamos.blogspot.com/2006/08/123-...-killed-by.html

[cybercoma]

And a great follow-up post on that site:

Those like the coward "anonymous" who try to claim some equality between terrorists and those who act in self defense sicken me.

Any civilian death is horrendous, but there is a vast difference between civilians being used as human shields by cowardly vermin and those deliberatley murdered by the same scum.

Did you miss the difference, Anonymous, or are you so blinded by stupidity and hate?

Go join your friends in Lebanon, they could always use more shields.

I feel deep saddness for the children of both sides; killed by the same Islamic terrorists. Directly or indirectly, they are all dead because of them.

[Higgly]

And a great follow-up post on that site:

Those like the coward "anonymous" who try to claim some equality between terrorists and those who act in self defense sicken me.

Any civilian death is horrendous, but there is a vast difference between civilians being used as human shields by cowardly vermin and those deliberatley murdered by the same scum.

Did you miss the difference, Anonymous, or are you so blinded by stupidity and hate?

Go join your friends in Lebanon, they could always use more shields.

I feel deep saddness for the children of both sides; killed by the same Islamic terrorists. Directly or indirectly, they are all dead because of them.

The comment was about how many had been killed by the rockets. Stick to the subject. As for the link, the number of Palestinians, children and otherwise, greatly exceeds that of the Israelis. How many Israelis have died in the past 6 months? How many Palestinians? What kind of horrendous pictures do you think the Palestinians could put up?

The quote you provide is typical of its type. "We are innocent and have never done anything wrong. Why do they hate us? It's all their fault. They are scum."

The comment about Lebanon particularly shows the writer's ignorance. The death toll in Lebanon (over 17,000) from Ariel Sharon's little adventure in the 1980s (a response to 105 Israelis being killed by PLO terrorists) puts a whole new face on the concept of 'self-defence'.

[White Doors]

I wouldn't call backing a democratically elected government defending it's citizens from murderour terrorists who started the war, 'taking sides'.

Who started which war? The facts of history might well surprise you.

Hezbollah started the war.

Harper is standing up for what is right, not necessarily popular. Good for him.

What would be right is demanding Israel obey international law and desist from oppressing the Palestinians.

They are not oppressing the Palestinians.

Israel has shown willingness to negotiate land for peace. The problem is the 'peace' part.

Actually, Israel has expressed willingness, but SHOWN unwillingness. The policy of illegal settlement outside its borders alone is sufficient to disprove any real willingness to achieve a negotiated settlement. Basically, it looks like Israel really wants the Palestinians to die quietly and be forgotten by history.

Really, they completely pulled out of Gaza and got rocket attacks for thanks.

Withdrawal from Gaza was not remotely sufficient to redress the causes of the conflict, and LO! the conflict continued. After Italy pulled out of Ethiopia, were the Allies wrong to invade Italy?

Oh, i get it. Israel is akin to Mussolini in your eyes, is that correct?

[White Doors]

I wonder if people realize that by other nations taking sides in the eternal conflict found in the middle east that we are perpetuating their misery.

No, the Arab world is perpetuating misery by funding the terrorists who attack Israel, and rewarding suicid bombers.

Without Israel and the Jews, who would be their scapegoat?

Each other, as in the way Sunnis and Shi'ites are butchering each other in Iraq or Janjaweed and other Muslims are butchering each other in Sudan.

Yep, or how fatah and Hamas are in daily gun battles murdering each other.

I'm sure some on here will find a way to blame the Jews or Harper for that too eh?

[White Doors]

And a great follow-up post on that site:

Those like the coward "anonymous" who try to claim some equality between terrorists and those who act in self defense sicken me.

Any civilian death is horrendous, but there is a vast difference between civilians being used as human shields by cowardly vermin and those deliberatley murdered by the same scum.

Did you miss the difference, Anonymous, or are you so blinded by stupidity and hate?

Go join your friends in Lebanon, they could always use more shields.

I feel deep saddness for the children of both sides; killed by the same Islamic terrorists. Directly or indirectly, they are all dead because of them.

The comment was about how many had been killed by the rockets. Stick to the subject. As for the link, the number of Palestinians, children and otherwise, greatly exceeds that of the Israelis. How many Israelis have died in the past 6 months? How many Palestinians? What kind of horrendous pictures do you think the Palestinians could put up?

The quote you provide is typical of its type. "We are innocent and have never done anything wrong. Why do they hate us? It's all their fault. They are scum."

The comment about Lebanon particularly shows the writer's ignorance. The death toll in Lebanon (over 17,000) from Ariel Sharon's little adventure in the 1980s (a response to 105 Israelis being killed by PLO terrorists) puts a whole new face on the concept of 'self-defence'.

Yes Higgly. You know and that's it. Perhaps you will take a moslems' word for it?

I'm sure that they, having lived there, would know a bit more than you, wouldn't you say?

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

[Figleaf]

Sputtering, infantile drivel.

Boo hoooooo! Argus doesn't like me.

As a people - there is great sickness with the Palestinians' culture.

Yes, its called Israeli Occupation.

Israel didn't give them a death cult to worship. They created that themselves.

Oh yes? And what precipitated it?

I'm glad you asked. It seems this Jew visited the Golden Temple, and this set off years of rioting and bloodshed called "The intifada", wherein the Palestinian terrorist groups killed every Jew they could lay their hands on. Needlss to say, this created all kinds of security problems for Israel, but it has managed to survive regardless.

You think the conflict started then? You need to brush up on history, it seems. In any event, what do you understand to have been the objective of the (second) intifada?

More importantly, Argus, on what premise do you propose that the Palestinians are unworthy of the right to self-determination?

[Figleaf]

Really, they completely pulled out of Gaza and got rocket attacks for thanks.

Israel had no choice but to pull out of Gaza. The cost of defending a handful of settlers was horrendous, and even an idiot like Sharon had to recognize that Gaza is completely unmanageable.

How many people have those rockets killed? Say compared to the constant extra-judicial helicopter gunship assassinations that Israel now carries out as an almost daily routine....

How many Jews do you think must be permitted to die before Israel takes action against Palestinian terrorists?

Well, they could make peace.

[White Doors]

Really, they completely pulled out of Gaza and got rocket attacks for thanks.

Israel had no choice but to pull out of Gaza. The cost of defending a handful of settlers was horrendous, and even an idiot like Sharon had to recognize that Gaza is completely unmanageable.

How many people have those rockets killed? Say compared to the constant extra-judicial helicopter gunship assassinations that Israel now carries out as an almost daily routine....

How many Jews do you think must be permitted to die before Israel takes action against Palestinian terrorists?

Well, they could make peace.

The "Suffocation situation"

Posted July 1 2006

My dear brothers, sisters, and friends

I know that many left wing and Muslims in USA and other parts of the world will try to speak against Israel during this time and blame it for attacking Gaza..

Please let me know if I could do any help to defend Israel against these blind people...Israel have tolerated the terrorism for years and years and it is time to be tough against the Islamists and terrorists of Hamas...please do not hesitate to ask me to speak to any Radio or any people if you felt this will be useful for our cause..the world has to realise that the Palestinians and Muslims are the ones who pushed Israel to the end and forced it to use such force...it is like some one who is pressing your neck until you are nearly suffocated, then the most peaceful person in the world has to use force to save his own life..this what Israel is doing at the moment "Saving its own existence" ..

In 1967, the Israeli Army controlled the Skies of Egypt yet they did not intentionally attack any electrical or water supply for civilians (When I was a child in Egypt I asked my self when I used to see the Israeli airplanes above us "if these people.'the Jews'.are really bad why they are not bombing my school and my house????")..I believe the world has to analyse

What drove Israel to attack the electrical supply for Gaza

...simply it is

The "Suffocation situation" that they face while dealing with HAMAS AND THE Palestinians who choose it and preferred death of the Jews to their own happiness.

Blaming Israel for using force is like blaming a person for using force with some one who is choking and suffocating him!

Many in the world asked "what drive the Islamic terrorists to 'intentionally' kill innocent tourists and civilians in Sep 11 or London 7/7 but sadly not many asked what drove Israel to use such force this time " which is the suffocation situation" .it seems that analysis of the causes works only when the act is against the Jews and Israel "may Hashem blesses them forever"

I hope this stupid world awake and see the reality..clear!.

Much love to you all

from

Your brother.Tarek and your Sister..Maha

[Figleaf]

Oh< i get it. Israel is akin to Mussolinin in your eyes, is that correct?

Mussolini was a man, Israel is a state. So let's compare apples to apples. Israel is currently illegally occupying some else's territory. Italy at the time I refered to was illegally occupying others' territory.

So, in that respect, they are comparable.

[White Doors]

Oh< i get it. Israel is akin to Mussolinin in your eyes, is that correct?

Mussolini was a man, Israel is a state. So let's compare apples to apples. Israel is currently illegally occupying some else's territory. Italy at the time I refered to was illegally occupying others' territory.

So, in that respect, they are comparable.

Thanks for the history lesson. Unfortunately for you your comparisom is shite.

Mussolini's GOVERMENT invaded and annexed Ethyiopia and Albania. Israel was acting in self defence when they first got the territory.

I'm sure the differences are negligable in your mind though as you already have your mind made up on the subject. I also find it interesting that you choose to compare Israel with a fascist regime. You forgot to mention George W. so unfortunately you only get a B+ in "left wing rhetorical clap-trap" this session.

Please remember this CRUCIAL step for your next round of your Israel bashing/terrorist apologizing efforts.

[normanchateau]

Israel is currently illegally occupying some else's territory.

Yes, Israel is currently occupying some territory illegally. No question about it. But what about the legal part of Israel? Hamas claims that none of Israel, legal or illegal, should exist. How does one negotiate with a Palestinian government which claims that none of your country, legal or otherwise, has the right to exist?

[Figleaf]

Mussolini's GOVERMENT invaded and annexed Ethyiopia and Albania. Israel was acting in self defence when they first got the territory.

So what? That makes no difference to my original point.

And besides, you're wrong. Israel started the 1967 war. You'd do better to avoid posting on subjects you're ignorant about.

[White Doors]

Mussolini's GOVERMENT invaded and annexed Ethyiopia and Albania. Israel was acting in self defence when they first got the territory.

So what? That makes no difference to my original point.

And besides, you're wrong. Israel started the 1967 war. You'd do better to avoid posting on subjects you're ignorant about.

Thanks for the advice, but they merely pre-empted an invasion by their neighbours.

Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser vowed to avenge Arab losses and press the cause of Palestinian nationalism. To this end, he organized an alliance of Arab states surrounding Israel and mobilized for war. Israel preempted the invasion with its own attack on June 5, 1967. In the following days, Israel drove Arab armies from the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Golan Heights, all of which it then occupied. Israel also reunited Jerusalem, the eastern half of which Jordan had controlled since the 1948-1949 war.

[Figleaf]

Mussolini's GOVERMENT invaded and annexed Ethyiopia and Albania. Israel was acting in self defence when they first got the territory.

So what? That makes no difference to my original point.

And besides, you're wrong. Israel started the 1967 war. You'd do better to avoid posting on subjects you're ignorant about.

Thanks for the advice, but they merely pre-empted an invasion by their neighbours.

Right -- Israel started it. (Also, it's highly questionable that Israel's neighbors had any serious intention of attacking.)

[White Doors]

Mussolini's GOVERMENT invaded and annexed Ethyiopia and Albania. Israel was acting in self defence when they first got the territory.

So what? That makes no difference to my original point.

And besides, you're wrong. Israel started the 1967 war. You'd do better to avoid posting on subjects you're ignorant about.

Thanks for the advice, but they merely pre-empted an invasion by their neighbours.

Right -- Israel started it. (Also, it's highly questionable that Israel's neighbors had any serious intention of attacking.)

wow, 2 false statements in one short sentence!

Pre-emptive Def: : marked by the seizing of the initiative : initiated by oneself <a preemptive attack>

Also,

"Most historians now agree that although Israel struck first, this pre-emptive strike was defensive in nature." The Mideast: A Century of Conflict Part 4: The 1967 Six Day War, NPR morning edition, October 3, 2002. URL accessed May 14, 2006.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/midd...six_day_war.stm

[Figleaf]

Thanks for the advice, but they merely pre-empted an invasion by their neighbours.

Right -- Israel started it. (Also, it's highly questionable that Israel's neighbors had any serious intention of attacking.)

wow, 2 false statements in one short sentence!

1. Your own sources confirm that 'pre-emptive' amounts to starting it, so that's not false.

2. Senior Israeli officials are on record acknowledging that the Arab rhetoric in '67 was pretty much empty.

[White Doors]

Thanks for the advice, but they merely pre-empted an invasion by their neighbours.

Right -- Israel started it. (Also, it's highly questionable that Israel's neighbors had any serious intention of attacking.)

wow, 2 false statements in one short sentence!

1. Your own sources confirm that 'pre-emptive' amounts to starting it, so that's not false.

2. Senior Israeli officials are on record acknowledging that the Arab rhetoric in '67 was pretty much empty.

holy jezus. They 'pre-empted' the invasion by attacking them first. That is not starting it, that's pre-empting it. And as per my source (The BBC which is hardly a friendly Israeli source) disagrees with you. So you will have to do better than that.

[Figleaf]

holy jezus. They 'pre-empted' the invasion by attacking them first. That is not starting it, that's pre-empting it.

Pre-empting is just the aggressor's propaganda term for starting it.

And as per my source (The BBC which is hardly a friendly Israeli source) disagrees with you. So you will have to do better than that.

I don't care what some media source says. I'm telling you that Israeli officials acknowledged that Arab states' rhetoric was probably empty. Don't you believe me?

[Alexandra]

I don't care what some media source says. I'm telling you that Israeli officials acknowledged that Arab states' rhetoric was probably empty. Don't you believe me?

I don't know about White Doors but, No. I don't believe you. Who or What 'Israeli officials' stated any such thing about the threat of Arab invasion in 1967 being merely ---- 'rhetoric'?

Your source is impeccable, of course. Dayan, perhaps?

[Argus]

How many Palestinains have to die before the Israelis look in the mirror one day and see a funny little guy with a funny little moustache?

Because as we all know, Adolph Hitler was notorious for spending years patiently whittling away at his enemies with small, niggling attacks which killed 1 here, 3 there, even when he could crush them all in a massive assault that had blood running in the streets.

Here's a clue to the legions of historically clueless, sophomoric Israel-haters out there who know nothing about Hitler but that it's a "kewl" insult to use against people you don't like:

If Adolph Hitler ruled in Israel (presuming, of course, he was Jewish) there would be no Palestinians alive, and Israel would border on Turkey in the north, Iran in the east,and the Indian Ocean on the south. Israel's military could, over the years, easily have managed that if they were as ruthless as Hitler.

So anyone who compares Israel to Hitler is fit only to be pointed at and showered with sneering laughter.

[Argus]

More importantly, Argus, on what premise do you propose that the Palestinians are unworthy of the right to self-determination?

Self determination is overrated. It's a concept zealously cherished by ruthless, power hungry men who can wield it to the mob to gain their support for all manner of violent and evil actions.

All people really want anywhere is good governance which provides a decent environment in which they can work, raise their families, and live out their lives in peace. What difference if it's provided by robots, by foreigners, or by people who are theoretically of a similar religion or ethnic background to yourself?

The Palestinians are not a unique people in any way, shape or form. There is nothing ethnically, linguisticually, culturally, historically, or racially unique about them, nothing which separates them from the Jordanians or Syrians or Egyptians.

Given Jordan already occupies most of what used to be called Palestine, and is made up of people who used to be called Palestinians, they should simply be joined with Jordan.

The territory remaining to them after Jordan and Egypt have gobbled up their pieces, is not economically viable any way. If independant, it would make Yemen seem like a thriving, industrial powerhouse.

[Argus]

Really, they completely pulled out of Gaza and got rocket attacks for thanks.

Israel had no choice but to pull out of Gaza. The cost of defending a handful of settlers was horrendous, and even an idiot like Sharon had to recognize that Gaza is completely unmanageable.

How many people have those rockets killed? Say compared to the constant extra-judicial helicopter gunship assassinations that Israel now carries out as an almost daily routine....

How many Jews do you think must be permitted to die before Israel takes action against Palestinian terrorists?

Well, they could make peace.

With a government which does not even recognize your right to existance, and which claims all of your territory for its own?