The wheels starting come off the Iggy bandwagon?

[Biblio Bibuli]

If these three blokes, because of their negligence, can be charged

Is this a joke? Are you serious? They beat a guy up and threw him in the river and he drowned. Are you that totally confused about the concept involved here?

Now I am. Totally confused. Why were they only charged with "negligence" then?

Are you sure we are talking about the same three blokes, Col. Jorge Mendonca, Maj. Michael Peebles and Warrant Officer Mark Lester Davies?

Maybe it is you who is confused.

[jbg]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/10/11/...-defection.html

I hope the wheels come off the Iggy machine soon...

Hopefully, people who are pro-Israel learn that the Liberal Party, like the US Democrat Party, is no friend. See my thoughts posted elsewhere:

My views on Harper statement on Liberal candidates' views on Israel.

[jdobbin]

Hopefully, people who are pro-Israel learn that the Liberal Party, like the US Democrat Party, is no friend. See my thoughts posted elsewhere:

So you think they are anti-Semitic?

[jbg]

Hopefully, people who are pro-Israel learn that the Liberal Party, like the US Democrat Party, is no friend. See my thoughts posted elsewhere:

So you think they are anti-Semitic?

Close call. Too close for comfort.

[jdobbin]

Close call. Too close for comfort.

Think they are members of the Klan?

[scribblet]

Well, I guess Iggy must have thoroughly researched the Qana events in depth and took into consideration that Israel did issue warnings well in advance, and also noted the well documented Hezbollah practice of using human shields. In which case is Mr. Ignatieff compromising his ethics etc. by taking pot shots at Israel to gain an electoral advantage while ignoring Hezbollah's atrocities?

[jbg]

Close call. Too close for comfort.

Think they are members of the Klan?

You know that's an absurd question.

[jbg]

Well, I guess Iggy must have thoroughly researched the Qana events in depth and took into consideration that Israel did issue warnings well in advance, and also noted the well documented Hezbollah practice of using human shields. In which case is Mr. Ignatieff compromising his ethics etc. by taking pot shots at Israel to gain an electoral advantage while ignoring Hezbollah's atrocities?

His research was as thorough as the research of the "people" that made it impossible for Netanyahu to speak at Concordia. The logic of a suicide bomber.

[jdobbin]

You know that's an absurd question.

Why. I've been hearing comparisons to the Klan on radio talk shows today.

Weren't several Democrats members of the Klan?

[Canadian Blue]

Why. I've been hearing comparisons to the Klan on radio talk shows today.

Weren't several Democrats members of the Klan?

Sen. Byrd

But this is stupid, the Liberal's aren't the Klan by any means. Do you know what the KKK is all about and what they have done in history. The Klan had members in both parties, and were extremely popular throughout the nation in the 1920's, and made abit of a comeback in the 60's.

I think the Hitler/Klan/Stalin comparison's are idiotic. I question whether those people are simply completely ignorant of history. I've heard people say Bush is just as bad as Hitler, I wonder whether these people have any clue what the Khmer Rouge, Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Mugabe, and a host of other leaders have done while in power. The only reasoning behind using such comparisons is hoping to shut down debate. At its core comparing people to such evil in a way is fascist, since you are going against the fundamentals of what a liberal democracy should allow which is free, and open debate regardless of political leanings.

[jdobbin]

Sen. Byrd

But this is stupid, the Liberal's aren't the Klan by any means. Do you know what the KKK is all about and what they have done in history. The Klan had members in both parties, and were extremely popular throughout the nation in the 1920's, and made abit of a comeback in the 60's.

I think the Hitler/Klan/Stalin comparison's are idiotic. I question whether those people are simply completely ignorant of history. I've heard people say Bush is just as bad as Hitler, I wonder whether these people have any clue what the Khmer Rouge, Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Mugabe, and a host of other leaders have done while in power. The only reasoning behind using such comparisons is hoping to shut down debate. At its core comparing people to such evil in a way is fascist, since you are going against the fundamentals of what a liberal democracy should allow which is free, and open debate regardless of political leanings.

All day long on talk radio, hosts were leading people to conclude that Liberals had connections to the worst of Anti-Semitic behaviours. The Klan references I heard weren't being used to shut down debate, they were being used to attack the Liberals for decades of leaders and policies.

Are you saying the radio hosts were just being inflammatory? Or do you think some people here actually think that Liberals are comparable to the Klan?

[Ricki Bobbi]

All day long on talk radio, hosts were leading people to conclude that Liberals had connections to the worst of Anti-Semitic behaviours. The Klan references I heard weren't being used to shut down debate, they were being used to attack the Liberals for decades of leaders and policies.

Are you saying the radio hosts were just being inflammatory? Or do you think some people here actually think that Liberals are comparable to the Klan?

People have used the Nazi analogy against the Conservative Party, and its predecessors, for years. Hard to imagine how ignorant people can be. Sad thing is they really thing they are justified in spreading such hateful garbage.

[Biblio Bibuli]

If these three blokes, because of their negligence, can be charged

Is this a joke? Are you serious? They beat a guy up and threw him in the river and he drowned. Are you that totally confused about the concept involved here?

Now I am. Totally confused. Why were they only charged with "negligence" then?

Are you sure we are talking about the same three blokes, Col. Jorge Mendonca, Maj. Michael Peebles and Warrant Officer Mark Lester Davies?

Maybe it is you who is confused.

I know that it takes a long time to get an apology around here, but I thought you were different.

[jbg]

You know that's an absurd question.

Why. I've been hearing comparisons to the Klan on radio talk shows today.

Weren't several Democrats members of the Klan?

Sadly, yes. Senator Byrd among others. Even the great integrationist Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black was.

[jdobbin]

Sadly, yes. Senator Byrd among others. Even the great integrationist Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black was.

It's probably why I kept hearing references here all day. Thankfully the weather was a bigger story than the sniping.

I don't know if it sways support any direction except away from voting altogether.

[Canadian Blue]

All day long on talk radio, hosts were leading people to conclude that Liberals had connections to the worst of Anti-Semitic behaviours. The Klan references I heard weren't being used to shut down debate, they were being used to attack the Liberals for decades of leaders and policies.

Are you saying the radio hosts were just being inflammatory? Or do you think some people here actually think that Liberals are comparable to the Klan?

No the liberals aren't comparable to the Klan. Such rhetoric is absolutely useless, and simply meant to be inflammatory and offensive. As for the Liberal's calling Harper's remarks divisive, they often divided the country into two camps. Remember the remarks about Canadian Alliance members being holocaust deniers, racists, and xenophobes, not backed up by any substantial statements. After the 2000 election many western Canadian's were infuriated with what had happened.

As well when any politician, especially liberals since they seem to do it the most, claim they represent Canadian values. Despite the fact that nearly half of the nation might disagree with them. Personally whenever I hear talk of Canadian values being sprouted off and its only to advance a political cause that has divided the country it doesn't add anything to my pride of Canada. More or less such talk only divides Canadian's, and makes it harder to debate an issue because one may be considered uncanadian or pro-American. It's all complete BS, which is the reason why people don't get involved with politics and have a very low opinion of politicians.

[scribblet]

Excellent letter in the NP today, he says it better than I:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/is...d8-886065f33fc0

Alan M. Dershowitz, National Post

Published: Saturday, October 14, 2006

Michael Ignatieff, the former Harvard human rights professor and current candidate for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada, has made two serious misstatements regarding the recent war between Hezbollah and Israel, and most particularly the Israeli military actions in the Lebanese town of Qana.

Back in August, Ignatieff said that he was "not losing sleep" over the attack in which 29 civilians, who had sought refuge in a building, were killed when the Israeli air force fired a missile at what it believed was a Hezbollah rocket-launching site. Every humane person -- and Ignatieff is surely that -- should lose sleep whenever innocent civilians are killed, regardless of who is at fault. Many Israelis, including soldiers, lost sleep over Qana, as did many friends of Israel around the world. Ignatieff was rightly criticized for his insensitivity and later acknowledged that he was wrong in his choice of words.

Now in an apparent effort to compensate for his insensitivity toward Lebanese civilians, he has once again put his foot in his mouth. This time, he characterized "what happened in Qana" as "a war crime" and said that this was "clear." Ignatieff is not a lawyer, but he is an expert on human rights and he should know that for a military attack to constitute a "war crime" -- the most serious charge that could be made against a soldier -- there must be an intention to deliberately target innocent civilians. Civilians are almost always killed during wars, especially wars in which combatants -- who are legitimate military targets -- deliberately hide among civilians and fire their rockets from civilian population centres, as Hezbollah does.

Ignatieff has surely seen the videos and other indisputable evidence that Hezbollah was launching rockets from areas near the building that Israel bombed. He surely knows that Israeli intelligence was completely unaware that Lebanese civilians were hiding in the building. He cannot reasonably believe that the Israeli air force deliberately intended to kill the civilians in the building. Why then would he characterize the resulting tragedy as a "war crime?"

There are several possible answers. The first is that he simply misspoke in the course of an interview in which he wanted to make up for his past misstatement. If that is the case, he should be accused only of carelessness. The second possible explanation has far greater implications for his candidacy to lead a great political party.

It is possible that he believes that even if the Israeli killing of Lebanese civilians was an unintended consequence of its efforts to prevent rocket attacks against its own civilians, it was still a war crime. Such a view would reflect a perverse and dangerous approach to international law that would make it nearly impossible for democracies to protect its civilians from terrorists who launch rockets from civilian population centres. It would also encourage other terrorist groups to emulate the tactic employed by Hezbollah in its recent war against Israel: to use local civilians as human shields behind whom the terrorists fire their rockets at enemy civilians. This gives the democracy only two choices: to protect its civilians by destroying the rocket launchers even if that means some civilians will inevitably be killed; or do nothing and allow its own civilians to be targeted. Faced with this choice of evils imposed by the terrorist, every democracy would chose to protect its own civilians, as Israel did.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Excellent letter in the NP today, he says it better than I:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/is...d8-886065f33fc0

Alan M. Dershowitz, National Post

Published: Saturday, October 14, 2006

Michael Ignatieff characterized "what happened in Qana" as "a war crime" .........

On the second page Dershowitz says that that kind of thinking (that Qana was a war crime) "would make war criminals out of the United States, Canada, Great Britain and all the Allies during the Second World War".

So who was it that flew over Dresden back in early 1945? Alians?

PS - Turk-92 of NPWBN tells me that Jim231 did. Is this true?

[Figleaf]

Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

[Figleaf]

No the liberals aren't comparable to the Klan.

:angry:

David Hume and John Locke were NOT members of the KKK and I defy anyone to prove different.

[Rue]

After watching the debates yesterday I am now thoroughly convinced that;

1-Bob Rae is a burned out socialist has been

2-Iggy is an arrogant, stupid, moron

3-Stephane Dion can not speak English

4-Mr. Kennedy is no John F. Kennedy as much he tries

5-Ken Dryden needs to go on a diet

6-Scott Biron should move to the Keys or Provincetown and stop trying to act like a

straight man

7-Joe Volpe belongs on the Sopranos or singing in a lounge in Atlantic City

8-at this point the Liberal Party is a joke from top to bottom.

As a life time Liberal who gave up on the Liberals after the Chretien years of coruption I would vote for Harper any day even though I can't stand his finance minister or Treasury Board minister. I think Mr.l Flaherty is a facist pig but Harper has far more integrity and intelligence then any of these idiots.

As for Ignatieff this man expects to lead the Liberal Party and he walks right into zingers from Rae like some sort of stunned twit? Bad enough he inserts his foot up his rectum continuously but then he thinks he can dance while doing it.

[jbg]

After watching the debates yesterday I am now thoroughly convinced that;

1-Bob Rae is a burned out socialist has been

2-Iggy is an arrogant, stupid, moron

3-Stephane Dion can not speak English

4-Mr. Kennedy is no John F. Kennedy as much he tries

5-Ken Dryden needs to go on a diet

6-Scott Biron should move to the Keys or Provincetown and stop trying to act like a

straight man

7-Joe Volpe belongs on the Sopranos or singing in a lounge in Atlantic City

8-at this point the Liberal Party is a joke from top to bottom.

As a life time Liberal who gave up on the Liberals after the Chretien years of coruption I would vote for Harper any day even though I can't stand his finance minister or Treasury Board minister. I think Mr.l Flaherty is a facist pig but Harper has far more integrity and intelligence then any of these idiots.

As for Ignatieff this man expects to lead the Liberal Party and he walks right into zingers from Rae like some sort of stunned twit? Bad enough he inserts his foot up his rectum continuously but then he thinks he can dance while doing it.

As an American, this spectacle reminds me of the campaign of the "Seven Dwarfs", i.e. the Democratic contenders of 1988. Now let's see, who were they? Well, I remember one, the famous adulterer, Gary Hart (name changed for political reasons from "Hartpence"). Oh yes, the successful one, Dukakis. He went down to deserved defeat, and I'm a liberal Democrat saying this.